There is no godly way that, IF Julia skates clean, she will not finish above Gracie, no matter what Gracie does. I am NOT going to try to convince you based on who should be scored higher (that won't matter) but the facts are this:
Originally Posted by sky_fly20
-Olympics are in Russia. There is no way that (again IF JULIA IS CLEAN) Gracie's PCS will be higher than Julia's, especially when Julia legitimately has better CH, IN, and PE this year (but even if she didn't, this point would still be true).
-Julia is more familiar to the international judges and they will go in viewing her as a top contender. This is not true of Gracie. It would be folly to say it is. Julia came in second in the GPF (which Gracie didn't make it to) and first at Euros. Gracie's winning nationals is not comparable to this in the eyes of the judges. The judges will go in prepared to give Julia higher PCS than Gracie. Again, I am not commenting on the merits of this here- I know you don't care. I am stating a fact.
-Just as an FYI Julia wasn't at worlds last year. I am stymied by what you mean by saying Gracie got higher PCS at worlds. Higher PCS than what? The illusion of Julia in your head?
There is absolutely no way clean Gracie is going to beat clean Julia in Russia at the Olympics with her current track record. I am certain of this.
Originally Posted by chuckm
Perhaps the biggest but certainly not the craziest.
Originally Posted by ForeverFish
No, their scores are not ridiculous. Adelina and Julia's scores at Europeans were from international judges. Get it through your thick skulls that Adelina and Julia skate very well. Just because you don't appreciate their skating does not make it any less worthy of great PCS.
What overscoring 140-145 is about right for 7-triple performances. If Ms. Kim can hit 148(ridiculous) with 6 triples and mediocre spins then by all means Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova should easily be hitting this scores if they do them perfectly.
Originally Posted by Jammers
Yeah, Only in your dream.
Originally Posted by chairmanmao
YuNa's jump quality, skating skill and artistry is unmatched.
you think YuNa's 148 is ridiculous? then Julia's 140 is crazy.
This thread is really depressing. It certainly looks like we're in for some questionable judging at Sochi if not outright blasphemous. So much for integrity. Both Adelina and Julia are great in their own ways and I personally really like Julia, but the scores they have gotten are ridiculous. Just hope that the inflation will be applied across the board and relative placements will be correct.
Lipnitskaya's the Limit
I posted this somewhere else but it seems more appropriate here.
If Julia tweaks her jumps to reflect similar to her Euro program due to extra wonky 2a. Could she not score another ~72 Technical score. With only a 65 PCS(is this not fair too) she then totals up to...137 in the FS. So then with only a 65 in the SP( I think that's low) she then achieves a 202. I suspect much to some people's dismay , not mine, she will be closer to 70 in SP. so under this scenario I expect her anywhere from 202-207.
I think this would be great for her and quite possibly making a run at silver if Mao falls on 3a(that is another topic for another thread) if I had my way though I'd want Julia to drop a 207-210 and challenge Yuna. I just love what Julia brings to this brings to this sport.
Adelina is far to wild for me so I'll just leave that to you guys.
the Golden Era
Im talking about Gracie vs Adelina's PCS at Worlds
Originally Posted by tulosai
Jumps, yes. Skating skills, among the best. Artistry, no. Julia and Akiko both exceed her in artistry (performance/execution and interpretation), IMO.
Originally Posted by yuki90
I disagree. Based on Euros scores, a perfectly clean Julia LP with 7 triples and great spins would place about 8 points below perfect Yuna with 6 triples. I think that is a fair margin and not reflective of overscoring.
Originally Posted by jennyanydots
Considering Julia has poor quality jumps (vs Yu Na's incredible jumps), and poor artistry, and has nothing going for her at this point besides great spins, great consistency, and a very good LP even if her actual artistry is poor and basic skating mediocre, I would say even that is overscoring. IMO a clean Adelina (who IMO should be scored higher than a clean Julia in the LP, especialy if she keeps the triple lutz-triple loop and hit it) should score about 8 points behind. A clean Julia should be more like 15, and in say Japan rather than Russia (and the Europeans was scored as high or higher for the Russians and many of the other Europeans than the Russians will be in Russia) that is more likely what it would be between Julia and Yu Na. Heck at the Grand Prix final didnt Julia do a clean long and only make 125 points, so maybe I should be saying in Japan she would be 25 points behind a clean Yu Na.
Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy
However after Europeans I expect the Russian fed. to firmly push Julia as their #1 which will probably mean Julia outscoring even a clean Sotnikova (in the unlikely event she finally made it happen) at the Games itself. Sotnikova is the better skater if she ever skated cleanly at this point in Julias developmentIMO, but it wont matter for this season. The Russian fed. knows it is better to push the one you can count on to skate cleanly, rather than the talented roll of the dice, who even with her big progress in consistency this year which I am proud to see, is still unlikely to skate totally cleanly even on her good day which Julia seemingly does like rolling out of bed.
BTW Kim's spins are extremely underrated on this forum. In the thread about complete skaters some posters said Kim was a weak spinner which is proposterous. Kim is a very good spinner, even if she is a better jumper than spinner. At Worlds last year in the LP her spins scored the highest of any women, and did in many other competitions. The only top skaters who have comparable spins are Sotnikova, Lipnitskaia, Gold, and Asada. The rest are significantly weaker. I even remember one certain troll poster say that Kostner had better spins than Kim and this was somehow an advantage in her scoring vs Kim if both skated cleanly. KOSTNER, ROTFL!!!!!!
I might question her high spin GOE in the Worlds 2013 LP, but I agree with most of the rest. The main thing people underestimate is the speed of Kim's spins, and the fact that her positions are all very good apart from the layback (which still has great speed and back position no matter what she does with her free leg). That means she almost always gets the levels. I actually think some of Sotnikova's positions are ugly and Lipnitskaya's hyperflexibility unappealing so I prefer Kim's spins to those of either Russian by far.
Originally Posted by pangtongfan
Jump Quality: Outstanding. Skating Skills: Carolina Kostner is her equal and Mao is very close. Aristry: Mao Asada not only matches her in many cases is better than Yuna's
Originally Posted by yuki90
Lipnitskaya's the Limit
Here is how GOE on jumps is awarded as I understand it.
FOR + 1 : 2 bullets
FOR + 2 : 4 bullets
FOR + 3 : 6 or more bullets
1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure
A reasonably honest judge should very easily find 2 bullets on most of Julia's jumps. Her 3t often goes higher than her first jump which qualifiers her for that bullet, like it or not, on those jumps at least. How people think she should only receive 0 GOE is what's ridiculous on this thread. I personally see +2 on most if you factor in her no set up entries on some of her toughest jumps, and effortless transitions out.
Both Mao and Yuna have very low second and 3rd jumps in their jump sequences often times. I don't think it should affect their GOE though. Although it looks very labored to me at times. You need to view the whole pass. In regards to Mao's 3a's in her FS she has already thrown out the first two bullets before leaving the ice.
Please correct my ignorance here but I don't see anything here that suggest you can only score +3 GOE with huge step up jumps.