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Thread: Score ceiling for Julia and Adelina in Sochi

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    The over scoring of the Russian girls is disgraceful and i can only imagine how bad it will be in Sochi.
    What overscoring 140-145 is about right for 7-triple performances. If Ms. Kim can hit 148(ridiculous) with 6 triples and mediocre spins then by all means Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova should easily be hitting this scores if they do them perfectly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chairmanmao View Post
    What overscoring 140-145 is about right for 7-triple performances. If Ms. Kim can hit 148(ridiculous) with 6 triples and mediocre spins then by all means Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova should easily be hitting this scores if they do them perfectly.
    Yeah, Only in your dream.

    YuNa's jump quality, skating skill and artistry is unmatched.

    you think YuNa's 148 is ridiculous? then Julia's 140 is crazy.

  3. #48
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
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    This thread is really depressing. It certainly looks like we're in for some questionable judging at Sochi if not outright blasphemous. So much for integrity. Both Adelina and Julia are great in their own ways and I personally really like Julia, but the scores they have gotten are ridiculous. Just hope that the inflation will be applied across the board and relative placements will be correct.

  4. #49
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    I posted this somewhere else but it seems more appropriate here.

    If Julia tweaks her jumps to reflect similar to her Euro program due to extra wonky 2a. Could she not score another ~72 Technical score. With only a 65 PCS(is this not fair too) she then totals up to...137 in the FS. So then with only a 65 in the SP( I think that's low) she then achieves a 202. I suspect much to some people's dismay , not mine, she will be closer to 70 in SP. so under this scenario I expect her anywhere from 202-207.

    I think this would be great for her and quite possibly making a run at silver if Mao falls on 3a(that is another topic for another thread) if I had my way though I'd want Julia to drop a 207-210 and challenge Yuna. I just love what Julia brings to this brings to this sport.

    Adelina is far to wild for me so I'll just leave that to you guys.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post

    -Just as an FYI Julia wasn't at worlds last year. I am stymied by what you mean by saying Gracie got higher PCS at worlds. Higher PCS than what? The illusion of Julia in your head?
    Im talking about Gracie vs Adelina's PCS at Worlds

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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki90 View Post
    Yeah, Only in your dream.

    YuNa's jump quality, skating skill and artistry is unmatched.
    Jumps, yes. Skating skills, among the best. Artistry, no. Julia and Akiko both exceed her in artistry (performance/execution and interpretation), IMO.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennyanydots View Post
    Both Adelina and Julia are great in their own ways and I personally really like Julia, but the scores they have gotten are ridiculous.
    I disagree. Based on Euros scores, a perfectly clean Julia LP with 7 triples and great spins would place about 8 points below perfect Yuna with 6 triples. I think that is a fair margin and not reflective of overscoring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    BTW Kim's spins are extremely underrated on this forum. In the thread about complete skaters some posters said Kim was a weak spinner which is proposterous. Kim is a very good spinner, even if she is a better jumper than spinner. At Worlds last year in the LP her spins scored the highest of any women, and did in many other competitions. The only top skaters who have comparable spins are Sotnikova, Lipnitskaia, Gold, and Asada. The rest are significantly weaker. I even remember one certain troll poster say that Kostner had better spins than Kim and this was somehow an advantage in her scoring vs Kim if both skated cleanly. KOSTNER, ROTFL!!!!!!
    I might question her high spin GOE in the Worlds 2013 LP, but I agree with most of the rest. The main thing people underestimate is the speed of Kim's spins, and the fact that her positions are all very good apart from the layback (which still has great speed and back position no matter what she does with her free leg). That means she almost always gets the levels. I actually think some of Sotnikova's positions are ugly and Lipnitskaya's hyperflexibility unappealing so I prefer Kim's spins to those of either Russian by far.

  9. #54
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki90 View Post
    Yeah, Only in your dream.

    YuNa's jump quality, skating skill and artistry is unmatched.

    you think YuNa's 148 is ridiculous? then Julia's 140 is crazy.
    Jump Quality: Outstanding. Skating Skills: Carolina Kostner is her equal and Mao is very close. Aristry: Mao Asada not only matches her in many cases is better than Yuna's

  10. #55
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Here is how GOE on jumps is awarded as I understand it.

    FOR + 1 : 2 bullets
    FOR + 2 : 4 bullets
    FOR + 3 : 6 or more bullets

    1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
    2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    5) good extension on landing / creative exit
    6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
    7) effortless throughout
    8) element matched to the musical structure

    A reasonably honest judge should very easily find 2 bullets on most of Julia's jumps. Her 3t often goes higher than her first jump which qualifiers her for that bullet, like it or not, on those jumps at least. How people think she should only receive 0 GOE is what's ridiculous on this thread. I personally see +2 on most if you factor in her no set up entries on some of her toughest jumps, and effortless transitions out.

    Both Mao and Yuna have very low second and 3rd jumps in their jump sequences often times. I don't think it should affect their GOE though. Although it looks very labored to me at times. You need to view the whole pass. In regards to Mao's 3a's in her FS she has already thrown out the first two bullets before leaving the ice.

    Please correct my ignorance here but I don't see anything here that suggest you can only score +3 GOE with huge step up jumps.

  11. #56
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Here is how GOE on jumps is awarded as I understand it.

    FOR + 1 : 2 bullets
    FOR + 2 : 4 bullets
    FOR + 3 : 6 or more bullets

    1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
    2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    5) good extension on landing / creative exit
    6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
    7) effortless throughout
    8) element matched to the musical structure

    A reasonably honest judge should very easily find 2 bullets on most of Julia's jumps. Her 3t often goes higher than her first jump which qualifiers her for that bullet, like it or not, on those jumps at least. How people think she should only receive 0 GOE is what's ridiculous on this thread. I personally see +2 on most if you factor in her no set up entries on some of her toughest jumps, and effortless transitions out.

    Both Mao and Yuna have very low second and 3rd jumps in their jump sequences. I don't think it should affect their GOE though. Although it looks very labored to me at times. You need to view the whole pass. In regards to Mao's 3a's in her FS she has already thrown out the first two before leaving the ice.

    Please correct my ignorance here but I don't see anything here that suggest you can only score +3 GOE with huge step up jumps.
    Sounds right. The Skating Lesson made an excellent video explaining jump GOE. Adhering to the criteria, they were suprised that they couldn't give Yuna a +3 on her jumps, as good as they are.

  12. #57
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I agree on all that. And yes her layback position is a bit weak, but that is just one weak aspect of one spin, it doesnt not a mediocre or even weak spinner make (and Kostners layback is maybe the ugliest I have ever seen FWIW). I definitely agree on your points on the Russians spins.
    Carolina's layback position has really improved the last couple seasons and I don't think it's ugly at all. The free leg is now nicely extended and turned out. Her back position may not be that low but it's still adequate. Yuna's layback free leg has also improved somewhat but it's still meh. However the back position, speed and centering are all very good. Agree that Adelina's spin positions aren't aesthetically pleasing at all. For me Julia is okay, maybe because I watch a lot of rhythmic gymnastics and am used to seeing extreme hyperflexibility.

  13. #58
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    Adelina's spins are difficult but not aesthetically appealing.
    Julia's spins are difficult and look aesthetically OK.
    Gracie is not Über flexible but her spins look pretty and fast. She is very "spinning", if that's a word.
    Yuna's spins are above average but there is no wow factor in her spins. I always feel she does not spin her spins, but skates her spins out.
    Carolina's spins are the weakest among all, probably due to her lack of flexibility.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippomoomin View Post
    Adelina's spins are difficult but not aesthetically appealing.
    Julia's spins are difficult and look aesthetically OK.
    Gracie is not Über flexible but her spins look pretty and fast. She is very "spinning", if that's a word.
    Yuna's spins are above average but there is no wow factor in her spins. I always feel she does not spin her spins, but skates her spins out.
    Carolina's spins are the weakest among all, probably due to her lack of flexibility.
    While I agree with most of your comments, the majority of your criticisms are due to requirements for spins under COP. For example, I have no doubt Adelina could do a beautiful classic layback spin but she wouldn't get very many points for that.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennyanydots View Post
    Agree that Adelina's spin positions aren't aesthetically pleasing at all. For me Julia is okay, maybe because I watch a lot of rhythmic gymnastics and am used to seeing extreme hyperflexibility.
    Ain't that the truth re: rhythmic gymnastics. I really enjoy rhythmic, although I don't follow it closely whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    While I agree with most of your comments, the majority of your criticisms are due to requirements for spins under COP. For example, I have no doubt Adelina could do a beautiful classic layback spin but she wouldn't get very many points for that.
    For whatever reason, I find Adelina's spin positions to be some of the most aesthetically displeasing, although I like many other things about her skating. I get why she's doing them though. To me, COP needs some tweaking when it comes to spins - and I generally am pro-COP.

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