What will happen in Ice Dancing this year?

dorispulaski said:

? I don't know what you were watching, but I was there, and no, D&W deserved to win US Nationals. And their timing is excellent. Timing is something that I hesitate to comment on unless I was there in the rink, since synching of video to audio feeds is often not very good, especially for on line coverage.

D&W were lots better than the other 3 teams, but C&B were clearly 2nd. D&W were especially good in the SD (which was a bit of a surprise to me, since My Fair Lady isn't a favorite of mine, but they exactly hit what the requirements are: for an elegant, light hearted ballroom quickstep for the Finnstep part, and overall a ballroom treatment. Their timing is excellent, particularly noticeable in the Finnstep, where



They really got the lightness. Just gorgeous.

Additionally, in the Finnstep check out the Choctaw, 1 1/2 twizzles about 2/3 of the way through the pattern in the corner of the rink-notice that Meryl & Charlie are carrying huge speed into the Choctaw, but don't have to go chasing one another to get back into hold after the twizzle. Sweet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0oRFRCUGdY

Madison & Evan had a great stage Quickstep for their Finnstep-very good, and within the rules, but didn't quite have the lightness, nor the speed of Meryl & Charlie. They also are weak in the 2nd twizzle, and the 2 positions in the lift aren't hit as clearly as I would like. However, they performed the heck out of the program.


Here's Chock & Bates' SD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDaH4mfNyH0

So D&W scored about 8 points more than C&B
http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2014/2014_us_fs_champs/results.html

Will both teams do as fine a job at Sochi as they did at US Nationals? Maybe not. But we now know they have it in them.

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ITA! Nobody does "lightness" like D&W. It's perfect for the Finnstep, which is why they have been winning this SD all season. White, being a musician, does understand "timing" and they rarely make an error here. Re: C&B, Bates seemed more "engaged", and not just "presenting" Chock, which made all the difference at Nationals, and their speed has greatly improved even since the Grand Prix events. There is a new video of D&W's Finnstep practice and they look great. Love the new pink dress, very Audrey Hepburn-ish.I am sure someone can find a link to the video.

dorispulaski said:

? I don't know what you were watching, but I was there, and no, D&W deserved to win US Nationals. And their timing is excellent. Timing is something that I hesitate to comment on unless I was there in the rink, since synching of video to audio feeds is often not very good, especially for on line coverage.

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Please, NO...I was talking about I&K, that description was about them when gmyers wrote that they should win Russian Nationals. And I took an example that I&K winning Russian Nationals title with those qualities I mentioned above would be as crazy as if Chock or Shibutani would overcome D&W.

I also don't see any problems in timing of D&W and they are definitely the best US team and they diserved the title. I took them like an example of how it would look like in US Nationals if a couple with similar qualities like I&K would overcome number 1 couple. That's all. Nothing negative about D&W!

Rahkomo and Kokko once said (sorry, I can't remember where) that they designed the Finnstep as almost a cartoon/parody version of a traditional quickstep, so "over the top" and bubbly is EXACTLY the way the dance is meant to be performed. And frankly from what I've seen all season, almost no teams are performing it that way with the exception of Marlie and (to a lesser extent) Canada's Paul and Islam (it's early so I might be missing another team or two, but I doubt it would be a much higher total than that). As much as I like Voir's SD--and I like it very much--it has a different character from the bubbly "over-the-top" feel described above.

gmyers said:

You were trying to make it seem like I/k are the russian number one team and that's not true...

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In this case we didn’t understand each other…the best Russian couple looking at skating and dancing qualities – all together and the couple with the best results are B&S since 2010.

My comments were to many situations when Russian Federation’s behaviour to I&K were too supportive and totally not equivalent with Russian Federation’s behaviour to other teams.

I am not against Federation’s support, skaters need to be supported, so who else should come with support than their own Federation. But I don’t see any reason why only I&K and partly Stepanova & Bukin should be supported while all other teams are criticised or ignored by Federation. I am for supporting all top teams. Let’s support I&K, it is OK. But support B&S, S&Z, M&K and R&T as well. But sure there is a difference between supporting and overvaluating.

Morozov noticed that while Amodio paid him for training, top Russian skaters didn’t need to pay – it was done by Federation. I also heard from not only former skaters that costumes are paid by Federation as well. Training in America is expensive for non-Americans, paying Morozov is even more expensive (he is the most expensive coach from all Russian coaches excepting Zueva and Sphilband) and Lena is well-known for changing costumes as often as possible, this season she already have 4 costumes for short dance and four costumes for free dance (some of it made by Viktoria Andreyanova, well-known designer).

Why Russian Federation puts so much money into I&K, if they don’t support them like Gmeyers says?
Why Russian Federation always excuses I&K’s bad performances and mistakes while other teams are criticised?

gmyers said:

...But the Russian national title is reserved for b/s because they are the number ones even when they make mistakes. And they have made mistakes at nationals too.

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B&S fell twice this season at COR and GPF, Bobrova made a mistake in one set of twizzles at Nationals during short dance. As to number of mistakes Lena and Nikita lead (but Riazanova & Tkachenko have the least major mistakes)…but that is not the point. The World best dance team shouldn’t make such mistakes often and definitely not at important competitions (GPF, Nationals, European and World Champs, Olympics). That is why B&S are fighting for Olympic Bronze medal, not Gold or Silver.
Comparing B&S and I&K…B&S falls during extremely difficult program (thanks to difficult choreo and fast music), they fall because they lost a concentration for one second (because their free dance is so difficult that even loosing concentration for one second in non-element leads to fall). While I&K have their simple choreographed dances, where they don’t force themselves to express the music, or to skate to the rhythm, with all those stops and two-footed skating during programs…and still the couple is able to make mistakes in such simple rutine. (Elements are difficult in their skating but if the choreography is simple the couple has plenty of time for concentrating on each element…I&K just finish one element and relax or already concentrate for another element without any distraction because of difficult steps / holds / moves between elements.) This always forces me to think how many times would I&K fall if they skated B&S, V&M, D&W, P&B or W&P’s programs. But it is not changing the fact that both couples are doing mistakes.

We can punish Zhulin for making such difficult choreo in past two years for B&S, but if B&S want to continue after the Olympic season and fight for World Gold next season they need such difficult programs.
And we can punish Morozov for doing such simple programs in past two-three years for I&K, because if this couple really wants to fight for Gold medal at top events in next Olympic cycle, they will need desperately more than just difficult lifts (which are still performed with problems) and nice edges. At Russian Nationals I&K had more simple programs than other teams from top 6 and it was just Russian Nationals.

gmyers said:

I&K...If they are overscored so bad they would be overscored to the russian national title...

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I&K are overscored at Russian competitions as well…Doris and somebody else mentioned that Hubell & Donohue were not as good as usual because of Madison’s injury, but I still hesitate and keep thinking that they were still better than two teams finishing above them. But let’s imagine that their performances were really weaker than S&S and C&B because of the injury…and even the fact that they are better dancers didn’t help them – they lost Olympic spot finishing fourth – without making any major mistakes. If H&D US National’s result is OK looking at fact that Madison didn’t show her best because of injury…than I&K’s second place at Nationals must be a mistake? After bombing in free dance I&K get 99 points and finish second in free skate and overall, although other four teams skated better in free dance. Even with six place finish in free skate and fourth or fifth place finish overall at Russian Nationals I&K could be chosen for European Championships’ team because Russian Federation chose the third team by their own decision (not only looking at results). How would results look like if I&K were at US Nationals? The couple made two mistakes in short dance, it would put them around fifth place, and after free skate they could be…sixth? The same situation at Canadian or French Nationals…would such performances hold I&K at second position?

Teams who wants to fight for Olympic medal and top 10 at Olympics came to Nationals and European Champs ready and even if there were some minor struggles in programs those teams were fighting…this can’t be said about I&K, who got lost and stopped fighting after first mistake.

Like Dorispulaski I also hope that all couples (not only US) will show their best at Olympics and make some unforgettable moments for us.

NBC has on their site footage of D&W training their SD on the ice. I don't like her new grandma dress; maybe the previous one was too revealing or something? I hope they keep the dress she had for the FD though. The final lift also didn't look as free as at nationals and they made the ending more bleh.

WeakAnkles said:

Rahkomo and Kokko once said (sorry, I can't remember where) that they designed the Finnstep as almost a cartoon/parody version of a traditional quickstep, so "over the top" and bubbly is EXACTLY the way the dance is meant to be performed. And frankly from what I've seen all season, almost no teams are performing it that way with the exception of Marlie and (to a lesser extent) Canada's Paul and Islam (it's early so I might be missing another team or two, but I doubt it would be a much higher total than that). As much as I like Voir's SD--and I like it very much--it has a different character from the bubbly "over-the-top" feel described above.

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Yes, I think you're right- and V&M's SD Last year had the same sort of problem with not having the character it was supposed to have, (in that case, a polka for polka Pattern Dance).

In the first "Shaggy Dog" joke I ever heard, a fellow enters his shaggy dog in a long list of shaggy dog contests. At each dog show, all the judges rave about how the dog is the shaggiest dog they've ever seen, and he wins. At the World shaggy dog show, the third judge takes a really good look at the dog and says, "That's not a shaggy dog at all." The dog was a good dog, a wonderful dog, but to win a Shaggy Dog Show, the dog has to be shaggy.

V&M's SD this year is a good dance, even a wonderful dance, but it is not a light, frothy Quickstep.

sisinka, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I agree that B&S not only are Russia's number one team; they should be that number one.

In fact, I&K are a lot like H&D-a beautiful team with a lot of ice presence, but also with a lot of nothing going on between elements, a questionable sense of timing, and a tendency to make mistakes. B&S, like C&B and the Shibs, are teams that are much better live, because at a live competition you can really sense Superior speed and timing better than watching tv or live stream. I really learned to appreciate B&S at 2012 Skate America!

dorispulaski said:

Yes, I think you're right- and V&M's SD Last year had the same sort of problem with not having the character it was supposed to have, (in that case, a polka for polka Pattern Dance).

In the first "Shaggy Dog" joke I ever heard, a fellow enters his shaggy dog in a long list of shaggy dog contests. At each dog show, all the judges rave about how the dog is the shaggiest dog they've ever seen, and he wins. At the World shaggy dog show, the third judge takes a really good look at the dog and says, "That's not a shaggy dog at all." The dog was a good dog, a wonderful dog, but to win a Shaggy Dog Show, the dog has to be shaggy.

V&M's SD this year is a good dance, even a wonderful dance, but it is not a light, frothy Quickstep.

sisinka, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I agree that B&S not only are Russia's number one team; they should be that number one.

In fact, I&K are a lot like H&D-a beautiful team with a lot of ice presence, but also with a lot of nothing going on between elements, a questionable sense of timing, and a tendency to make mistakes. B&S, like C&B and the Shibs, are teams that are much better live, because at a live competition you can really sense Superior speed and timing better than watching tv or live stream. I really learned to appreciate B&S at 2012 Skate America!

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Me too! And I do feel they've improved greatly over the years and they aren't given enough credit for that. I do feel they went back to old habits this season, but I'm hoping it all comes together here.

I'd like to I&K live so I can know for sure, but definitely B&S is better to see live. And now they're going back to their old FD, I think I will be okay if B&S pulls off bronze.

sisinka said:

In this case we didn’t understand each other…the best Russian couple looking at skating and dancing qualities – all together and the couple with the best results are B&S since 2010.

My comments were to many situations when Russian Federation’s behaviour to I&K were too supportive and totally not equivalent with Russian Federation’s behaviour to other teams.

I am not against Federation’s support, skaters need to be supported, so who else should come with support than their own Federation. But I don’t see any reason why only I&K and partly Stepanova & Bukin should be supported while all other teams are criticised or ignored by Federation. I am for supporting all top teams. Let’s support I&K, it is OK. But support B&S, S&Z, M&K and R&T as well. But sure there is a difference between supporting and overvaluating.

Morozov noticed that while Amodio paid him for training, top Russian skaters didn’t need to pay – it was done by Federation. I also heard from not only former skaters that costumes are paid by Federation as well. Training in America is expensive for non-Americans, paying Morozov is even more expensive (he is the most expensive coach from all Russian coaches excepting Zueva and Sphilband) and Lena is well-known for changing costumes as often as possible, this season she already have 4 costumes for short dance and four costumes for free dance (some of it made by Viktoria Andreyanova, well-known designer).

Why Russian Federation puts so much money into I&K, if they don’t support them like Gmeyers says?
Why Russian Federation always excuses I&K’s bad performances and mistakes while other teams are criticised?

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Zhulin won a team Olympic gold in dance - he coaches b/s. now I/k aren't coached by a dance coach at all and whose best success in dance in cop is bronze in 2006 Olympics. The Russian federation doesn't even give I/k a dance coach. I agree I/k are horrible in almost all areas of cop dance and i agree with all your opinions on the teams I disagree with your saying they are some kind of favored team over b/s. you have said over and over that I/k became Russia's federations number one team in 2012 and that's not true at all. Why don't they have the national title, why isn't their coach a dance coach? Why were they allows to do ghost? Why do zhulin tarasova staviski etc bash them every year around Russian nationals? The federation is at war over them but b/s is an ovbvious number one in all respects. The issue of I/k having massive fatal flaws for real success is obvious but however they were world jr champs in 2010 and have talent as skaters but obviously not as ice dancers.

The micromanaging of b/s by the federation is a good thing not a bad thing. I bet I/k wish they were never allowed to do ghosts which may have destroyed their careers.

gmyers said:

Zhulin won a team Olympic gold in dance - he coaches b/s. now I/k aren't coached by a dance coach at all and whose best success in dance in cop is bronze in 2006 Olympics. The Russian federation doesn't even give I/k a dance coach. I agree I/k are horrible in almost all areas of cop dance and i agree with all your opinions on the teams I disagree with your saying they are some kind of favored team over b/s. you have said over and over that I/k became Russia's federations number one team in 2012 and that's not true at all. Why don't they have the national title, why isn't their coach a dance coach? Why were they allows to do ghost? Why do zhulin tarasova staviski etc bash them every year around Russian nationals? The federation is at war over them but b/s is an ovbvious number one in all respects. The issue of I/k having massive fatal flaws for real success is obvious but however they were world jr champs in 2010 and have talent as skaters but obviously not as ice dancers. The micromanaging of b/s by the federation is a good thing not a bad thing. I bet I/k wish they were never allowed to do ghosts which may have destroyed their careers.

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1. So wait one second here, you are telling all us sane people, that that birds fiasco was a success? The one decent competition B/S have had all season was nationals.
2. So you are saying that Zhulin did a fantastic job as coach this season? He has worked with them for two seasons and has given them only ONE great program IMHO,and they are reusing it again this year.
3. Wake up and smell the coffee there are reasons as to why P/B ( forget the PC nonsense they fed the press) and I/K left Zhulin! He may have great moments! But!! He misfires a lot. Worse,if you cross that man he can be heartless and savage with respect to vilification in the press. And I/K are not and will not be his last targets. This is who Zhulin is.
4. In my opinion Russian Dance needs to be outsourced, because with this sort of environment they will NEVER dominate as they did before. They DO NOT KNOW HOW to develop talent. (Hopefully Kustarova will prove me wrong and learn from the lessons taught from I/K, and S/J will fare better) They just don't have two very important qualities make that three to make champions in the COP era; poise, patience and class.

Birds was a huge failure! It was like Ghost for I/K but the federation cared enough about B/S to have them change from birds! Meanwhile I/k went to worlds with Ghost! So zhulin had a bad idea and it was generating extremely bad press so it was changed! The press wasn't even half as bad though as the press about I/k and ghost which became at London worlds the topic of real discussion and agreement among people i read that they were doing he worst program of all time. That wasn't even new as it started back in November 2012 after the first gp but the Russian federation did nothing which contrasts with what the federation has done with b/s and birds. It's over and finished! I/k are not just targets of Zhulin though. At least three major federation people say I/k don't work hard.

You are right though. All Russian dance teams must leave Russia and train in us or Canada to have the best chance to be successful in cop ice dance. Zhulin too of course. No one can really stay in Russia but the issue is that the federation changed a horrible wretched program b/a had because they care that b/s are successful but allowed I/k to do ghost.

gmyers said:

Birds was a huge failure! It was like Ghost for I/K but the federation cared enough about B/S to have them change from birds! Meanwhile I/k went to worlds with Ghost! So zhulin had a bad idea and it was generating extremely bad press so it was changed! The press wasn't even half as bad though as the press about I/k and ghost which became at London worlds the topic of real discussion and agreement among people i read that they were doing he worst program of all time. That wasn't even new as it started back in November 2012 after the first gp but the Russian federation did nothing which contrasts with what the federation has done with b/s and birds. It's over and finished! I/k are not just targets of Zhulin though. At least three major federation people say I/k don't work hard.

You are right though. All Russian dance teams must leave Russia and train in us or Canada to have the best chance to be successful in cop ice dance. Zhulin too of course. No one can really stay in Russia but the issue is that the federation changed a horrible wretched program b/a had because they care that b/s are successful but allowed I/k to do ghost.

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But we have collectively forgetten gmyers that was the season that Lena dislocated her shoulder. Therefore making changes would have been difficult for them that season. A dislocated shoulder is not something you mess with. Recall how long and painful it was for Yuka Kawaguti to recover from that issue. So as Tarasova intimated, I think that Morozov purposefully rested them to allow them to prepare with a minimal of obstacles this year.

On the other hand, even Lena herself has admitted that she is no workaholic, not a slouch mind you, but that they are trying to be better at it. How can you then change someone into who they're not? Humiliation and embarrassment will not always do the trick. So you either commit to help them be the best they can be or you don't work with them at all. All or most of this mud in the press could have been avoided if Zhulin just quietly said to them and their parents that he could no longer continue to be their trainer for some valid reason. In just a similar manner to which P/G were shipped off to Angelica from Morozov. They would have progressed at quite the normal pace and none would have been the wiser. The problem was Zhulin's ego couldn't handle it.

Now also do not read this thinking I agreed with the angry words expressed by Nikita at the time towards Zhulin. I did not condone it. However it was red flag to me that something was not quite right and also this is a somewhat immature 19 year old. Since that time they have become a lot more media savvy. They are growing and progressing just not at the rate that the hype would have predicted or as other persons would have liked.

Usova & Zhulin never won Olympic gold. They won Olympic bronze (92) & Olympic silver (94). U&Z did win the 1993 World Championship gold.

My impression was that P&B and at least one of his top singles competitors had no choice but to leave Zhulin because the Russian Federation had changed their policy & required that Russian coaches living in Russia could only coach Russian athletes, rather than share their expertise with international competitors. (Though there were apparently exceptions to this policy).

Morozov was a competitive ice dancer. He competed with future Olympic gold medalist Tatiana Navka in 1998. They skated to--gasp!--Bolero for one of their freedances. Ironically, Tatiana Tarasova--arguably the greatest dance coach in history--was a pairs skater.

bramweld said:

Wake up and smell the coffee there are reasons as to why P/B

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It would be nice to correct a few things…
Pechalat & Bourzat didn’t want to leave Zhulin (I heard Pechalat said it to media during Worlds 2011), but their own Federation forced them to do it (they were probably afraid that Russian coach will prefer Russian skaters more than French). Pechalat & Bourzat and Zhulin speaks nicely about themselves. There is no problem.

bramweld said:

why I/K left Zhulin! He may have great moments! But!! He misfires a lot. Worse,if you cross that man he can be heartless and savage with respect to vilification in the press. And I/K are not and will not be his last targets. This is who Zhulin is.

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I really don’t know why to connect Zhulin with some bad words about I&K, the strongest negative words were used by Nikita after they left Zhulin. I know that journalists love to ask Zhulin about I&K from time to time, but there are many Zhulin’s interviews when there is no notice about I&K. I don’t remember any interview (since May 2011 when there were comments about I&K leaving him) where Zhulin would start to talk about I&K himself. He was asked a few times through years if he would like to take them back, answers were from “no“ to he “doesn’t know“ – but once again he was asked by journalists.

The whole season 2010/11 Zhulin protected I&K and excused all their mistakes pointing their young age and big talent. He also protected them when they skated very poorly at Test Skate in September 2010, saying that they don’t need to have the best form in the beginning of the season, that at summer Nikita needed time to make his back injury OK, that he (Zhulin) simply doesn’t want to put so much pressure and stress to avoid some serious injury. There was one real complain before Worlds 2011 only - that I&K are not training enought, not pushing themselves to do more.
http://www.allsportinfo.ru/archive.php?id=49526&s_s=106&s_d=30&s_m=4&s_y=2011&b=0&l=40
…here is an interview from 29th of April 2011, Nikita is very positive about whole team.
…Nikita says that they have a very good team around themselves, that he hopes that Zhulin will stay with them like a coach, that he understands them, that he is both strict and kind, even democratic, that Zhulin is simply himself.

But 9th of May 2011 Elena Vaitsekhovskaya mentioned in her blog that some couple will leave their coach, later there were rumours that I&K leave Zhulin and that he still doesn’t know because he is on vacation that time. After he came back from vacations, later then was an official announcement about I&K leaving Zhulin. Than there was that infamous Nikita’s interview, another interview where Zhulin protected himself in front of some Nikita’s accusations. It is strange that Nikita was so unsatisfied in May, while in past April everything was great.

Since that time there were some Zhulin’s interviews where journalists mentioned and asked him about I&K.
http://ria.ru/interview_sport/20111213/515909379.html
…from December 2011
…Zhulin says that in 2010/11 there was no reason to keep I&K in juniors, so he took them to senior competitions, that those time he thought that they were a couple who could compete with D&W and V&M, but he don’t think it no more, because he knows them very well and he thinks that they came the way where a train to Olympic medal runs away.

http://www.sport-express.ru/newspaper/2012-08-20/13_3/?view=page
…from August 2012
…Zhulin says that I&K were unique couple, it was enjoyable to work with talented skaters. But it is more enjoyable for him to work with people who works hard and with self-denial, now he has such group of hard workers.

There was another interview with Zhulin from November 2012 with title that I&K improved, but the link already doesn’t exist.

http://fsrussia.ru/news/296_aleksandr-zhulin-v-finale-gran-pri-budet-ochen-tyazhelo/
…from December 2012
…he was asked about strong sides of couples and he mentioned that I&K’s strong side is their speed.

bramweld said:

But we have collectively forgetten gmyers that was the season that Lena dislocated her shoulder. Therefore making changes would have been difficult for them that season. A dislocated shoulder is not something you mess with. Recall how long and painful it was for Yuka Kawaguti to recover from that issue.

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Talking about Lena and her dislocated shoulder during summer 2012 (I didn’t find more precise date when that accident happened). I am not sure if Lena talking about “dislocation“ really meant dislocation. Usually if something like that happens, media and primarily coach immediately inform about it, this time that information came to media just before Test Skate in late August. Konstatin Menshov after dislocating shoulder at World Team Trophy 2013 was forced not to train for many weeks while Ilinykh described that she trained with painkillers, no word about some weeks out of trainings, only rehabilitation was added while training process continued. She also mentioned dancing on Brodway and trying boxing and working with World Champions in Acrobatics on lifts during that summer. The information about that injured shoulder and doctor’s recommendation of not skating at Test Skate came at 6th of September. While Elena Vaitsekhovskaya, a Russian journalist, posted a report about I&K practise from 30th of August, when a journalist was very enthusiastic about the couple – she described smiling Ilinykh, skating both short and free dance devided into parts (like this season), some problems with twizzles, no word about problems with health / shoulder. Open and Closed Test Skates were in August and September 2012, Open Test Skate was in the middle of September, more than a half months after that succesfull practise, but I&K still didn’t skate there - this already couldn’t be thanks to some health issue.

Injuries are always a bad thing, all skaters are injured from time to time, when it comes in the beginning of season during summer it is at least a little bit better than when it comes during season – remember Kaithlyn Weaver and her broken ankle in mid December of 2012 (brave girl went back at Worlds and with Andrew they finished fifth!)
But Yuko Kawaguchi‘s troubles with health are on another level. Her problems with shoulder is chronical, her shoulder was dislocated many times, she went through more surgeries not only because of the shoulder but because of tissues surrounding shoulder as well. I wouldn’t compare chronical injuries with an acute injury.
Plus pair skating means very fast movements of arms in rotation of jumps, a lady needs her arms for lifts where all her weight stays on her arms, there are so many elements demanding arms. In ice dancing it is not so much demanding.

bramweld said:

On the other hand, even Lena herself has admitted that she is no workaholic, not a slouch mind you, but that they are trying to be better at it. How can you then change someone into who they're not? Humiliation and embarrassment will not always do the trick. So you either commit to help them be the best they can be or you don't work with them at all. All or most of this mud in the press could have been avoided if Zhulin just quietly said to them and their parents that he could no longer continue to be their trainer for some valid reason.

Now also do not read this thinking I agreed with the angry words expressed by Nikita at the time towards Zhulin.

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I&K wanted to leave Zhulin, Zhulin wanted them to work hard only, not to leave him.

I think that you shouldn’t be angry that Tarasova and Zhulin demand hard work… both Zhulin and Tarasova were always pushing their skaters to do a maximum. Don’t be angry that Zhulin training I&K wanted them training harder than they did (Zhulin said that he didn’t pushed that hard at the beginning of the season 2010/11, he didn’t want to destroy them when they just came to seniors…but you have to agree that World Championships is so important competition that there was no reason to be “on vacation“ during training just before that competition).

Both Tarasova and Zhulin spent many years in top skating world, Tarasova mainly as a coach and Zhulin as a skater and then as a coach. So they understand that a talent is a nice thing but if you want to win something more than Junior Grand Prix and accidentaly one competition – Junior Worlds (after loosing both Junior Final and Junior Nationals)….you also need to work…and not only…you need to work hard. Look at top dancers – D&W, V&M, B&S, P&B, W&P, C&L – they are all hard workers and some of them even workoholics. Today‘s top level sport is so demanding that you need to work hard and talent itself is not sufficient.

Maybe that is the reason why Morozov creates such simple choreography in their programs. Because if Lena is not working hard like you noticed above, she wouldn’t be able to skate a difficult programs, because nobody even talented skater is not able to skate a difficult program cleanly without training hard.

Well at the very least I am encouraged that they are learning from their failures. Their performances at EC were wonderful, if not for the silly fall on the twizzles. At 19 and 22, and ambitious, failures will motivate them to work even harder. Tarasova mentioned this year that they finally fell in love with training and that she loves everything they've been doing this season. They it seems to me will be late bloomers, but they'll bloom at just the right time for them.

Zhulin talked about parting with PB: " Of course ! We parted very well. They cried , we cried . But the federation told me not to work with competitors. They skated on Russian ice with Russian coach . How they worked ! Mutko saw me jumping up and down after they won European championships , and asked : « What' s going on here?» Psychologically , you can understand him , and the French , everyone ."
PB did not want to leave him, at all -_-

http://www.freep.com/article/20140220/SPORTS17/302200139
The Shibs are not sure to come back next season??? , ***, they are only 22 and 19 yo, they are serious ?, I never heard about this before this article. I hope it is only a misunderstanding.