Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 38

Thread: 4CC vs Euros

  1. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,212
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Japanese Nationals are held in December and clearly that works for them. It doesn't look like they need any changes to their marketing plan, considering the huge popularity of the sport there.

    It probably makes more sense to have all the major Nationals in the second half of December (after the GPF, of course) and then have the continental championships in the middle to second half of January, giving everyone a breather during which they can prepare for Worlds (or for the Olympics, as the case may be) - then you don't need to switch up the schedule in an Olympic year.
    Japan wouldn't have to change anything then. Already GP slots are in October and November with GPF in December.

    NBC / ISU could just let 4CC die then and let the Euros have the Euros ... schedule North American Championships for February. Everyone else can do their Nats in December or whenever they want, and U.S. still does January.

    The point is look how successful NFL and Nascar are in the U.S.
    They have regular schedules that are well marketed. Everyone knows they can tune in at the same time every week to see the game or race, and they promo the hell out of them.

    People in the U.S. get no exposure to Figure Skating at all. NBC buries the product 2 weeks later with bizarre editing (2 hours for all disciplines LP only) ... usually at a 12noon Saturday slot which is death.

    By that point, anyone who cares has already seen everything on Youtube and everyone else could care less.

    Once a year primetime broadcast for Nationals doesn't cut it as far as building interest in the sport.

  2. #17
    Columnist
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    360
    I think the problem is that Europe is a big "nation" for itself so to speak. You are at another country in a few hours, you have the Euro as currency in many, you speak similar languages and its a big prestige to win Euro´s, as we had many Olympic and world champions coming from the Euro´s.

    The 4 CC´s are a bit like 4 national championships merged into one. It just doesn't has the same glamour as one big event, it doesn't feel important somehow and not enough nations participate.

    Look at Euro´s, you have Russians, Germans, Fins, Swedes, Brit´s, Lithuanian, Italian, French, Spanish .... so many countries with such a huge skating history - that's just not there at the 4 CC´s.

    I would love to see Euro´s switched to Feb btw. January is not a good month if you like tennis as well, you always have to decide what you do. Australian Open or Euro´s :(

  3. #18
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by gold12345 View Post
    It really has nothing to do with prestige, as the field for 4CC in non-Olympic years is generally as strong as possible.


    In an Olympic year, they have no choice but to move 4CC into January instead of February, which puts it too close to the Nationals of two major countries in the event (the US and Canada). And by allowing a week in between US/Canadian Nationals and 4CC, 4CC ends up scheduled too close to the Olympics.

    The European countries hold their Nationals earlier (in December), which makes it reasonable for those countries' Olympians to attend Europeans (in January).

    I really don't know if anything can be done to fix this.
    This is all true.

    Maybe I am a lone voice on this but I kind of like 4CC the way that it is, and I prefer it to Europeans, even though Europeans is more prestigious and attracts the cream of the cream from Europe. 4CC, in this year, lets me see skaters that I cannot see at the Olympics but want to watch, like Mura, Rippon, Dornbush and Kozuka (and, for instance, for the women Nagasu). It is an important venue for countries with deep fields of talent. It also lets me see skaters from countries I generally don't notice, such as skaters from the Philippines. Further, I get to see the possible up and comers competing at seniors (like Nam Nguyen and Keiji Tanaka). And there are always, even in this kind of year, a top tier skater there like Denis Ten. Whereas Europeans is the crowning of the cream of European skating, 4CC represents a valuable gateway that gives lifeblood to the sport and, because of that dynamic characteristic, is more interesting for me to watch and follow. (For instance, in the men, better than watching the coronation of Fernandez at Europeans. Europeans is not always a better event in every category.) Perhaps it is not so bad the way that it is.

  4. #19
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    40
    Some who've been around for a while remember the North American Championships. I recall Janet Lynn and Karen Magnussen competing in them. Don't know when they stopped having that competition, but it was quite a while before the Grand Prix series began. It was covered by ABC usually, because ABC had most of the FS on Wide World of Sports with Uncle DIck and the Most Memorable and Beloved Jim McKay.

    Ms. Dykstra, who was recently inducted into the WFSHOF, was the first skater I watched--in black and white--on TV in the 64 OLYMPICS. I was a kid--8 years old, and my mother gave me the Figure Skating bug. Peggy and Scott Allen also skated in that competition. That's what I mean by "been around for a while."

    BTW, the last one was scheduled in 73 in ROchester NY but was cancelled apparently for judging issues. It was also held just every two years in the off Olympic years.

  5. #20
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,102
    About the North American Championships, in addition to the fact that the U.S. and Canada alternately accused each other of crooked judging every other year, the real reason the series ended in 1973 was that Canada decided it was more in their interests to host an international competition, Skate Canada.

    The U.S. (don't get mad, get even ) countered with Skate America six years later.

  6. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,379
    European is more prestigious of course
    not every top athletes even compete in 4CC, to be fair the 4CC event is still young

  7. #22
    Custom Title breathesgelatin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    1. In the year before Olympic season, hold it at the upcoming Olympic venue.
    2009 4CC was held in Vancouver, exactly 1 year before Olympics ... like a preview, very nice way of doing it IMO.
    Depends on the host city and its venue plan, obviously, but a lot of host cities wouldn't necessarily have their ice rink finished a full year out in advance. Not to mention, as others have said, that Europe often hosts the Winter Olympics.

  8. #23
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    About the North American Championships, in addition to the fact that the U.S. and Canada alternately accused each other of crooked judging every other year, the real reason the series ended in 1973 was that Canada decided it was more in their interests to host an international competition, Skate Canada.

    The U.S. (don't get mad, get even ) countered with Skate America six years later.
    Thanks for clarifying Mathman. I knew it was something like that, but didn't take the time to do the research.

  9. #24
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    2,824
    Quote Originally Posted by gold12345 View Post
    I really don't know if anything can be done to fix this.
    What if the winner of the 4CC wins an entry into the SP of the GPF the following season. Keep the exact same amount of people in the field and don't alter selection process. By this I do mean adding an extra competitor to the GPF. After the SP one of the skaters/pairs is cut from FS. If a person/pair retires, gets injured etc... Whoever the first alternate is takes this "wildcard slot". I'm a big fan of keeping the vererans honest and it would clearly promote that. This would also add excitement during the GP season as another spot could become available on certain years.

    Maybe this could only apply during an Olympic season giving chance to someone less likely to have made it through normal GPF selection criteria.

    Just a thought and maybe kind of foolish but maybe something along the lines of this thought process.

  10. #25
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    410
    Or what if medalists at 4CC and Euro qualified for Worlds with out it counting against the skaters country's allotted number of skaters.

    ie: based on this 2014 Euro's Julia, Adelina, and Carolina would all get spots at Worlds and Russia could send 2 more skaters and Italy 1 more. Would certainly encourage federations to take them seriously

  11. #26
    Edgy Details
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Cracow
    Posts
    795
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex D View Post
    I think the problem is that Europe is a big "nation" for itself so to speak. You are at another country in a few hours, you have the Euro as currency in many, you speak similar languages :(
    As someone already mentioned, it is not exactly so straightforward - a lot of european skaters train in North America. Also, we definitely DO NOT speak similar languages. It is a stretch. Additionally, I do not see how these factors you mentioned would make the Europeans prestigous. Following your logic, Worlds should not be prestigous at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alex D View Post
    Look at Euro´s, you have Russians, Germans, Fins, Swedes, Brit´s, Lithuanian, Italian, French, Spanish .... so many countries with such a huge skating history - that's just not there at the 4 CC´s.
    :(
    Spanish and Lithuanian history of figure skating is huge? Spain is maybe just starting writing its own (and lets see how it goes in the nearest future). Lithuania - accept of Drobiazko/Vanagas, who did they have exactly?

    I totally agree with Buttercup, who spoke earlier in this thread.

  12. #27
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    2,824
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    Or what if medalists at 4CC and Euro qualified for Worlds with out it counting against the skaters country's allotted number of skaters.

    ie: based on this 2014 Euro's Julia, Adelina, and Carolina would all get spots at Worlds and Russia could send 2 more skaters and Italy 1 more. Would certainly encourage federations to take them seriously
    Not sure how fair this is to non-euro countries but not a bad thought at 4cc IMO.

  13. #28
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    410
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Not sure how fair this is to non-euro countries but not a bad thought at 4cc IMO.
    If you do it for one continental level championship event you need to do it at the other. Every federation should have the same chance to win extra slots.

  14. #29
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    2,824
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    If you do it for one continental level championship event you need to do it at the other. Every federation should have the same chance to win extra slots.
    Agreed. I brain farted that last response and meant to word it differently.


    I still like the idea of only a SP berth. This way you are only affecting the free skate and quite likely leaving the FS alone.

  15. #30
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    The Brink of Insanity
    Posts
    667
    This only happens in an Olympic year, and it's because half of the competitors have to fly half-way around the world to get there. It takes one week for the competition and one week to recover from the jet lag. In non-Olympic years, nearly all of the top skaters show up.

    Additionally, this year the Olympic skaters are doing the team competition in addition to their singles events. They hardly need yet another competition between Nationals and the Olympics.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •