Russia chooses Plushenko for Sochi Olympics | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Russia chooses Plushenko for Sochi Olympics

noskates

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Jun 11, 2012
I disagree - I think there is more pressure on him now than ever. He hasn't been competing hardly at all for 4 years, he's had surgeries, his body is put together with bubble gum and toothpicks and it's apparent (at least to me) that Russia is looking for him to do big things because he's the great Plushenko. It would be hard enough if he were in great physical shape, a few years younger, and had been competing regularly. But I do think the expectations for him to perform by his country and many people who remember him at his peak is pretty tough!!! I think it would have been better to use his name and his voice to advertise the games, etc. And athletes always think they have that one great skate or one great game left in them. I just hope he doesn't get injured.
 

lavender

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Jul 26, 2003
I’m no Plushenko fan but I would never wish another skater to fall…wouldn’t want that bad karma to come back to a skater that I like.
 

Audrey19

On the Ice
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Jun 26, 2007
I honestly think this is an awful decision. Plushenko hasn't been competing at all recently and I don't think there should even be a debate about who gets the spot. He hasn't earned it. He hasn't earned it because he hasn't competed in any major events since Vancouver. He hasn't earned it at Nationals. A private performance in front of Russian officials? Really? At this point all that his earning him the spot is his name. But past achievements shouldn't be a factor in who gets to compete NOW.
Kovtun's career is only starting and who knows what could happen for him in the Olympics. Actually, all the Russian guys who competed at europeans deserve this spot much more than he does. For them, the olympics could be a major stepping stone in their careers, Kovtun especially. But they don't even get a shot because an old decides he still hasn't had enough. There was a reason why retired athletes used to not be able to come just for the olympics and frankly I think this was a good rule.
I think this is deeply unfair and I'm very saddened by this poor decision.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
I honestly think this is an awful decision. Plushenko hasn't been competing at all recently and I don't think there should even be a debate about who gets the spot. He hasn't earned it. He hasn't earned it because he hasn't competed in any major events since Vancouver. He hasn't earned it at Nationals. A private performance in front of Russian officials? Really? At this point all that his earning him the spot is his name. But past achievements shouldn't be a factor in who gets to compete NOW.
Kovtun's career is only starting and who knows what could happen for him in the Olympics. Actually, all the Russian guys who competed at europeans deserve this spot much more than he does. For them, the olympics could be a major stepping stone in their careers, Kovtun especially. But they don't even get a shot because an old decides he still hasn't had enough. There was a reason why retired athletes used to not be able to come just for the olympics and frankly I think this was a good rule.
I think this is deeply unfair and I'm very saddened by this poor decision.

I agree with most of this. I think it's unfortunate and unfair that Plushenko is denying 3 guys who have yet to have Olympic experience that opportunity, while he has had three Olympics and three medals. I would have been okay if he had beat these guys fair and square in competition and was clearly the best choice, but in his only competition against Kovtun he lost. I also feel horrible for Voronov... not only was he totally robbed of 2nd in the FS at Russian Nats and buried behind Plushenko's generous PCS.. he placed 2nd with a score of 252 points at Euros - 12 points higher than Kovtun's PB - and probably wasn't even considered.

Both Voronov and Kovtun (and arguably Menshov) should have all been included in this closed door performance. Right now, it's as though the Russian Federation is making some arbitrary decision and we're supposed to believe that Plushenko had a skate worthy of Sochi. By the sounds of it, Voronov/Menshov at Euros quite possibly still had a better FS with their 2 quad + 2 triple axel performances (as there was apparently a hand down on Plushenko's first quad, and there's no telling how well executed the rest of Plushenko's elements were... one could say his Russian Nationals' skate was performed "clean with all the elements" with the triple axel at the end and quad at the beginning even though he doubled so many jumps).

Anyways. Hopefully he does a good job for Russia, but if he doesn't then the Russian fed yet again have made their bed and have to lie in it.

I hope somebody also asks the federation officials why they chose to do it behind closed doors instead of have the skate available for people to see (although we all know the answer to that :rolleye:).
 

karne

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At the end of the day, it's not Plushenko's fault that none of the others stamped their authority on that spot. It's not Plushenko's fault that none of the others have taken up his crown an become consistent, excellent senior skaters. It's not Plushenko's fault that in mind and record he remains the strongest candidate.

Kovtun has now been in four high-pressure ISU championship situations. He blew three of them. That doesn't speak well for him. All Kovtun had to do at Worlds last year was skate half-decently and he would have got the second spot and he would be going. All he had to do was hold it together at the GPF - even a midfield finish would have been better than what he did. All he had to do was medal at Euros and beat the other two Russians - and he would likely be going. But he couldn't do any of those things. If he cannot handle this pressure, then he cannot handle the Olympic pressure.

That Plushenko can not only handle Olympic pressure but defeat it is a known fact, a known quantity, and his iron will has never faltered, nor will it do so now.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
At the end of the day, it's not Plushenko's fault that none of the others stamped their authority on that spot. It's not Plushenko's fault that none of the others have taken up his crown an become consistent, excellent senior skaters. It's not Plushenko's fault that in mind and record he remains the strongest candidate.

Kovtun has now been in four high-pressure ISU championship situations. He blew three of them. That doesn't speak well for him. All Kovtun had to do at Worlds last year was skate half-decently and he would have got the second spot and he would be going. All he had to do was hold it together at the GPF - even a midfield finish would have been better than what he did. All he had to do was medal at Euros and beat the other two Russians - and he would likely be going. But he couldn't do any of those things. If he cannot handle this pressure, then he cannot handle the Olympic pressure.

That Plushenko can not only handle Olympic pressure but defeat it is a known fact, a known quantity, and his iron will has never faltered, nor will it do so now.

In record he does not remain the strongest candidate if you consider actual performances over the past two years. He has pulled out of a terrible Euros 2013 SP (due to injury), and he has had exactly 2 competitions since, where he did one clean SP and one disastrous SP as well as one clean FS and one disastrous FS. Voronov on the other hand, while he doesn't pull in the guaranteed PCS that Plushenko gets no matter how he skates, has skated four clean SPs this season, and very commendable freeskates -- including 167 points at his most recent competition. Plushenko hasn't even skated a full ISU competition in 4 years.

And "All Kovtun had to do"? He was a junior dropped into his first Worlds. His personal best prior to Worlds was 226.57 points, which would have placed him 11th at 2013 Worlds. And "all he had to do" was beat Voronov's score of 252 points? That in itself is 12 points higher than Kovtun's personal best. He would have needed essentially perfect skates to defeat Voronov.

Also, let's be honest here... even if Kovtun had beat the other two Russians or even won Euros -- heck, even if Voronov won Euros -- the Russian Federation in this closed doors skate would have STILL given Plushenko the go ahead. Kovtun just made that decision easier by having a poor Euros performance, and Voronov and Menshov had no chance even if they landed 5 quads. :rolleye:

To give Plushenko the spot because none of the others "stamped their authority on it", when Voronov clearly had with his Euros performances as well as his Russian Nationals performances where he was far more consistent than Plushenko, is frankly pretty lame and unfair. If Plushenko wanted to stamp his authority on that spot and prove that he was the top Russian man going in, he shouldn't have shied away from Euros (although I'm guessing Voronov would have beaten him, which would have been even more awkward for the Russian fed). He should have gone to Euros and said "After Russian Nationals, let me put confidence in you having me as your Russian man in Sochi"... right now, all we have is his Russian nationals SP (clean, but devoid of choreo) and his FS - where he was outscored on TES by Lipnitskaia & Sotnikova -- and a supposedly "great" test skate.

At least Wagner had strong results on the GP and GPF, and over last season as well, and was the best US woman internationally this and last year, so she was justified in going instead of Mirai. Plushenko is going purely by name alone (unless he legitimately did have a good test skate which we will never know) and PCS scoring potential (which of course will be through the roof no matter how poorly he skates, just like Russian Nationals). Obviously the crowds want to see Plushenko and not Voronov -- but let's not pretend that Plushenko actually earned his spot in Sochi by virtue of being the best Russian man this season. :sarcasm:
 

TontoK

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I'm not surprised he's been chosen.

Given the inconsistency of the Russian men over the past quad and the lack of a real star, I've always assumed that if Plushenko wanted to go to the Olympics, some justification would be found to send him.
 

Panini

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Dec 5, 2013
If it was such a tall order for Kovtun to get Russia two spots at 2013 Worlds, maybe his team shouldn't have insisted on sending him over skaters who beat him at Nationals :rolleye:

When a young skater does well, fans complain that the skater is too young/immature/junior-ish and hasn't earned their stripes. When an older skater chooses not to hang up their skates, fans complain that they're selfish and not giving the younger skaters a chance. Whatever happened to "age is but a number"?

Kovtun is an awful choice for the Olympics. He's cracked under pressure at his first Worlds, at his first GPF, and at his first Euros. He had the lead at Rostelecom after the SP but still finished second. What indication is there that he won't crack at his first Olympics? Home Olympics are even worse when it comes to pressure. We all know he's not going to medal at the individual event and on top of that he's likely to screw up Russia's chance in the Team event. Why should giving him "experience for the future" take precedent over the hard work of all the other Russian skaters, who want to do well? Plushenko might be old and washed up but he's still a safer bet.
 

Puchi

On the Ice
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Sep 26, 2010
So Plushenko's lifetime "body of work" (see reputation) trumps Kovtun's achievements this season (2 GP medals, only Russian man in the GPF and National title)? Where's the petition to send Kovtun to the Olympics?

Where's The High Horse Brigade Of Crushed Olympic Dreams when you need it?
 

plushyfan

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Jun 27, 2012
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So Plushenko's lifetime "body of work" (see reputation) trumps Kovtun's achievements this season (2 GP medals, only Russian man in the GPF and National title)? Where's the petition to send Kovtun to the Olympics?

Where's The High Horse Brigade Of Crushed Olympic Dreams when you need it?

what petition? The vast majority of Russians are happy with the decision
 

noskates

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Jun 11, 2012
I look forward to the Olys because I love figure skating. I look forward to them being over so we don't have to have this Plushenko discussion ever again. Body of work doesn't count for the past 16 years.....the reality of it is it should only count for the last 4 years. Kovtun is young. He's had alot of pressure on him. I expect to see him in 2018. He's been in an untenable situation this year. Give the guy a break.
 

plushyfan

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to CSG!
do you know this?

Plushy's free program with two quads, of which the second quadruple was with triple toe loop, two triple axels, five jumps in the second half of program.

I remember, you said that is impossible to do two quads in his age..
 

seniorita

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Jun 3, 2008
^ I hope he goes for one quad though.

There is a video, I suppose it will emerge at some point public. Also Plushenko has not deprived anyone of their deserved spot, he has not eaten all their food either, RF sends him (it isnt even official) , and there were pretty lots of people involved in the test skate watching.
In record he does not remain the strongest candidate if you consider actual performances over the past two years. He has pulled out of a terrible Euros 2013 SP (due to injury), and he has had exactly 2 competitions since, where he did one clean SP and one disastrous SP as well as one clean FS and one disastrous FS. Plushenko hasn't even skated a full ISU competition in 4 years.

What is the disastrous sp after Euros 2013? If you mean the Volvo sp, you must have missed the note that Plushenko went through sp in Volvo just to sail to FS and get the demanded TES. Given their pace of training to Olys, I thought it was wise even if he missed the single quad there. On top of that sports is strategy as well, they stayed home and worked and didnt miss time for Euros with the blessing of his own Federation. Did Plushenko know Kovtun will crash at Euros? No, he just kept training. He has earned this luxury to choose his competitions. Although I was pretty sure RF wanted to send Kovtun to Olys firstly, the thing is that with mistakes Plush can score as much as a perfect Kovtun. He can score 81 in sp with no quad in it, while Kovtun needs to be perfect with his ambitious sp. He might skate in individuals anyway, who knows.
And I thought Europeans 2012 is an ISU competition.
 
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CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
I meant two years not four. However why was Plushenko allowed a test skate and not Kovtun? Plushenko messed up in his Russian Nationals FS so surely Kovtun deserves a second chance after messing up Euros. :sarcasm:

Oh well. I'm hoping this doesn't build resentment in Kovtun. I'd almost leave Russia out of spite and find another country who won't send their veteran regardless of how he skates.

And plushy fan I said he wouldn't be able to do a clean skate with 2 quads now and according to the test skate his solo quad wasn't clean. And we can't be sure how clean his other jumps were, eg if he doubles both triple axels then he could still call that "clean". Who's to say otherwise since there is no video. Obviously he will say that he did everything, and maybe the spectators were told to say the same if anyone asked about it.

Bottom line: I will believe he skated as well as he did in his test skate when I see it in Sochi. Otherwise his most recent skate at Russian nationals is what I have to base him on. And even if there were video it's not the same pressure and competitive environment. It's a test skate where officials are there with the hope that you will do the bare minimum (whatever that is) and even if you don't its not like the general public can verify anything you tell them. Let's see what he can do in Sochi against some real competition.
 

Kinga

Medalist
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Feb 15, 2008
what petition? The vast majority of Russians are happy with the decision

Yeah, but when Mirai was denied a spot, people did send a petition. And as someone said earlier, sending Wagner was much more justified than sending Plushenko. So I totally see why some people would want to send a petition for Kovtun/Voronov.

If it was such a tall order for Kovtun to get Russia two spots at 2013 Worlds, maybe his team shouldn't have insisted on sending him over skaters who beat him at Nationals :rolleye:
Yeah, that was unfortunate decision, but that was again not Kovtun's decision. And I honestly doubt that any of those guys who beat him at Nationals last year would have secured two spots for Russia. Menshov last year was really not that great and it was not written in stone that he would have placed in top 10. We will never know, but that is beating a dead horse. I think Kovtun's last year performance at Worlds is irrelevant for the Oly's discussion.
 

amber68

On the Ice
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Aug 25, 2006
Oh well. I'm hoping this doesn't build resentment in Kovtun. I'd almost leave Russia out of spite and find another country who won't send their veteran regardless of how he skates.

Plushenko isn't exactly just any veteran as you imply ! I am absolutely sure that if any other federation had to make the choice between Plushenko in a decent shape and a no name that didn't exactly take the figure skating world by storm,they would have also chosen Plushenko. Just tell us which is the brave federation that would have done otherwise and would have worried about whats fair for the skater. Imagine Kwan, Chan, Boitano etc. in Plushy's place .
Moreover, why do you base all your assumptions on Plushy's LP from RN? Yes, he had a bad skate but this does not mean that he can't skate better as you seem to be sure.
I think that his jumping problems were also generated by the new layout with the 3A and the 3Lz in the second part of the program.He might be his consistent self again if he moves back the 3A in the first part.
Excepting the jumping mistakes, the rest of Plush skating was not bad at all and with some improvement I don't think that he'll embarass himself.
(I saw today picture of Plush taken yesterday and he really looked very thin, thinner than in December, so this will also help with his jumps!)
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
I meant two years not four. However why was Plushenko allowed a test skate and not Kovtun? Plushenko messed up in his Russian Nationals FS so surely Kovtun deserves a second chance after messing up Euros. :sarcasm:

Oh well. I'm hoping this doesn't build resentment in Kovtun. I'd almost leave Russia out of spite and find another country who won't send their veteran regardless of how he skates.

And plushy fan I said he wouldn't be able to do a clean skate with 2 quads now and according to the test skate his solo quad wasn't clean. And we can't be sure how clean his other jumps were, eg if he doubles both triple axels then he could still call that "clean". Who's to say otherwise since there is no video. Obviously he will say that he did everything, and maybe the spectators were told to say the same if anyone asked about it.

Bottom line: I will believe he skated as well as he did in his test skate when I see it in Sochi. Otherwise his most recent skate at Russian nationals is what I have to base him on. And even if there were video it's not the same pressure and competitive environment. It's a test skate where officials are there with the hope that you will do the bare minimum (whatever that is) and even if you don't its not like the general public can verify anything you tell them. Let's see what he can do in Sochi against some real competition.

This decision is harder to defend than Dai or Ashley being sent over Oda, Kozuka and Mirai but it is in the rules of the Russian skating committee. On a side note not that this should be considered remember Kovotun was the benefactor last year of such arbitrariness and while this clearly is and should not be considered Plushy will bring in the fans andmedia attention. Now with so many posts can someone tell me what are the rules if Plushy can't skate on after the team competition? Can Russia replace Plushy after the team comp?
 

caelum

On the Ice
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Nov 8, 2013
Everything that was bad about Plushenko - mediocre spins, lousy transitions, awful choreography, unintentional burlesque interpretation - is still all there. It would be one thing if his jump arsenal was so much more impressive than the rest of the field, but it's not, and he's neither consistent with them nor will he be receiving high GOE for them.

I'm unsure why he even wants to do this. He's 31, his body is injured, he's married, has kids, and already won a gold medal and two silvers. Why does he even want to do this? His chances of winning are close to zero, and I'd be surprised if he even showed up on the podium. It seems like a guy who just can't move on with his life and wants to keep re-living the glory days.

I'd personally send Voronov myself, despite his shaky track record, I think he would have confidence coming off his Euro's performance.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
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May 4, 2013
That Plushenko can not only handle Olympic pressure but defeat it is a known fact, a known quantity, and his iron will has never faltered, nor will it do so now.
That's what I'm saying: Send Katarina Witt! And send Dick Button and Scott Hamilton instead of Abbott and Brown - they both have the far better olympic record! :clap:

what petition? The vast majority of Russians are happy with the decision

If Daisuke Takahasi had not skated great at NHK and finished 11th at Japanese Nationals, the vast majority of Japanese would still want him on the Olympic Team. Sometimes a sporting federation has to take the unpopular decision to stick to sporting values.

Kovtun is young. He's had alot of pressure on him. I expect to see him in 2018. He's been in an untenable situation this year. Give the guy a break.
What if Plushenko feels he has open business after Sochi, and makes another comeback 2018? :confused:

What is the disastrous sp after Euros 2013? If you mean the Volvo sp, you must have missed the note that Plushenko went through sp in Volvo just to sail to FS and get the demanded TES.
So when he performs poorly, it's only because he didn't "feel the need to perform well"?
LOL - I knew the expression "he just can't win with you, no matter what he does", but here, it's more "he just can't lose with you!" :laugh:
 
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