01-24-2014, 02:52 AM
Kovtun and Voronov are the alternates. As a national Champion probably Kovtun is in the first order.
And you should all thank Plushenko by giving your vivid imagination a release. No use to convince people anything since anyway they would only look at things in their way and ignore any opposite possibilities. I say it for both fans and haters.
It is not far from the 6th of Feb. Let's wait and see. Soon it will be all over.
01-24-2014, 08:48 AM
Thanks for clarifying! On some level even though the Russian fed would be cheating with Plushenko's inevitable and predictable "withdrawal due to injury" at least it would let Maxim compete even though its Plushenko scooping up the easy medal.
Originally Posted by seniorita
01-24-2014, 08:53 AM
has there been a written or rule which states no replacement ?
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
Zhenya has had injuries before, so we cannot rule he can pull out of any given time even after teh Team event
probably you dont know all countrie have their reserves and alternates list too
01-24-2014, 09:26 AM
You are right, the Piseev’s announcement was worded quite strangely. Instead of saying this one is # 1 and that one is # 2, he first introduced the names, and then said that Kovtun would be serving as an alternative # 1.
Here is the official statement from the Russian FS Federation website:
Any idea why the men’s event has 2 alternatives while the rest – only one? Just think about the possible schemes…..
By the way, meanwhile the Junior Nationals are taking place in Russia; can’t wait to see the videos – and Adjan Pitkeev took the lead after the short program( meanwhile, Rodionova decided not to compete there).
01-24-2014, 09:38 AM
The Russian Fed may or may not be scheming, but I'll bet if Plushy has a decent skate in the team event, whatever he's thinking now, he'll insist on skating the singles.
01-24-2014, 10:02 AM
Agreed. The team event will be a good opportunity for Plushenko to see how he is judged against the likes of Chan and Hanyu. While most of you believe that the judges will mark their PCS far ahead of Evgeny (rightfully so), I'm not convinced that will be the case since Plushenko is one of the most prominent athletes for the home country and will get a huge boost in his scores for that reason alone. If the judges mark him as most expect, I don't think he'll have any interest in skating the singles event.
Originally Posted by Coriana
01-24-2014, 11:41 AM
I think the generosity from Cup of Russia shown towards Russian skaters and holding back of non-Russian skaters will be applied. If Plushenko goes clean, he will certainly get higher PCS than skaters who have more complex programs who go clean or make minor errors.
Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy
People are naive though to think that the Russian federation won't exploit the rules, if given the opportunity. Regardless of whether Plushenko does well or not in the Team event, I fully expect him to "withdraw due to injury" following his guaranteed team medal, regardless of whether or not he's legitimately injured.
It's as ridiculous as him being apparently too injured to do Euros 2014, but somehow able to supposedly land 2 quads and all other elements in a test skate like 3 days later. We're not fools, even though the Russian fed tries to play dumb.
01-24-2014, 12:18 PM
just call me K or Art jockey
Did they claim that as the reason for not going to Euros though? I thought the reason given was to allow Plushenko to continue preparation without interruption.
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
01-24-2014, 12:31 PM
From what I've read, injury was cited, although some said he wasn't prepared. In any case, I can hardly see how 3 days makes a difference to one's preparation. And it's not like Kovtun/Voronov were given that liberty, having to show what they were made of 3 days earlier in a competitive environment at that. It's apparent that Plushenko wanted his skate to be in a controlled environment where he was judged by Russian officials, rather than another competition where he could potentially lose again (and as per the results, certainly would have lost to Fernandez, and quite possibly Voronov as well).
Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster
01-24-2014, 01:46 PM
What we can agree on is the uncertainty regarding who will ultimately skate for Russia in the individual event, that remains an open question at this time. I don't think Russian Fed knows it for sure either and I suspect they too are adopting a wait-and-see approach and this isn't solely based on Plushenko's health. Put it this way, this is set up so that the Russians have "purchased" an option on their hands for the Olympic Men's event. They could redeem the option or they could let it expire.
Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy
On the other hand, many are convinced, including Mathman, that Plushenko will get 85+ PCS just for showing up and provided he landed most of his jumps. I am not convinced. For one, Plushenko's FS is beyond bad, it's totally empty when you ignore the required elements for a moment. If you think Joe Inman's warning back in 2010 was sort of jumping the gun, well, definitely not now. Even by 2006, Plushenko's in-between have deteriorated so much that ISU decided to use footage of his Olympic performance as educational tools for the judges' training as example of what not to do in a program after he supposedly retired. If his 2006 Olympic program was substandard, well, his 2014 version surely isn't getting any better. The fact is his program will be analyzed to death prior to the actual Olympic Games with all these talks about him and the Russian men's sole entry - it doesn't help. Judges are some of the most avid fans in this sport, you bet all of them are following this Russian saga very closely. More importantly, the Olympic isn't just any ISU event and certainly not CoR. The ISU is keen in avoiding yet another Olympic controversy, no matter what it may be. The IOC has a new President from Germany who will not be eager to see one the most colorful sport in the Winter Games to be on the spotlight again for Shenanigans. Already, these scheming and shenanigans re: Plushenko's participation has already generated a lot of media attention and interests. In an Olympic year with an eager international media looking for juicy stories, there is just too many eyes and cameras around in an overly sensitive time. The judges at the men's event know they are being watched, probably even being spied on. I recall even back in Vancouver Games, the Korean judge on the Ladies event was spied by Japanese fans or media who took videos of her marking Mao Asada, purposely showing her undermarking the Japanese and allowing her to be identified on the protocol. If anything, spying will be even worse in Sochi.
The bottom line is FS at the Olympic is a completely different animal. You can't understand unless you lived through an actual experience. I was in Vancouver for 2 weeks, I know - it was unlike any other FS event or World Championship I have been to.
What I also noticed between Vancouver and Sochi is the expected attendance in Sochi is likely not at the same level as Vancouver. In Vancouver, the prices for the tickets of all FS events were outrageous. Think about, during the Compulsory Dance, there was about 10000 people in attendance, each was holding a ticket with a face value somewhere between $300-$450 when in reality, short of the corporate sponsors who gave out tickets to employees or guests, many people paid way more than the face value to obtain theirs on the Exchange. By the time of Ladies Free Skate, we were talking about approximately for $3000 / seat and those weren't even the best seating. Needless to say, Vancouver Figure Skating tickets were long sold out before the event and many had to try to get one from the official Exchange for a much higher price. Joannie Rochette had trouble securing seats for her hometown friends who were there to support her and the Turkish entry for ladies had to go to public to beg for tickets for her parents who simply couldn't afford the prices of the official Exchange. Attendance in Vancouver was mostly enthusiastic Canadians, with substantial number of Americans and many international spectators who otherwise wouldn't come watching a Figure Skating event if not for the Olympic. I recall seating before 2-3 really obnoxious Swiss men who were there primarly to watch hockey and would not have come if not for Stephane Lambiel. They were grown men yet making fun of skaters' outfit in sexist and homophobic comments, very annoying. I also recall seating besides a Polish couple who knew Halina Gordon-Poltorak. Tamara Moskvina and Alexander Mishin were nearby for another event, can't recall which one. All in all, it was not a surprise that Vancouver as whole had a partisan crowd.
In comparison, Sochi still reports 30% of the tickets unsold despite much lower prices than Vancouver. Putin claims Sochi is the most affordable Games in years yet despite that, many Russians can't afford to go. Vancouver was in a major urban center, easily accessible. Sochi is in the middle of nowhere, far from the major urban centers in Russia say Moscow or St. Petersburg. As a result, the spectators will likely be filled with more international spectators, mostly from corporate sponsor tickets and international spectators who can afford it. They will likely squeeze out a lot of ordinary Russians who can't neither afford the travel or the cost of the tickets and lodging. This would explain why despite the much lower ticket prices, 30% of the tickets remain unsold today in Sochi.
It remains to be seen just how well Plushenko can skate, I think the Russian Fed overplayed their hands by creating so much attention on Plushenko before the Games which may end up hurting him, more than it helps.
01-24-2014, 02:28 PM
leave no stone unturned
Emm, will they analyse the program he has not yet skated on the event he is supposed to get marks for, prior to Olympics? Really? Thats an interesting media attention. Will it happen only for Plushy? And he has gotten internationally over 85 before.
Originally Posted by wallylutz
Mr Mathman has a crystal ball!
Plushenko generates media interest since he won his first Euros in 2000. Internet is your friend here. I havent seen an article apart two of specific sites who imply stuff -and I m not surprised -that question any scandal for him going. Not an outcry because they send the silver national medalist instead of gold. I didnt see figure skating hurt after VAncouver men and that got certainly great media attention.
I m not sure why there is any need to compare the Games, Vancouver had fantastivc Olys, let Russia have theirs now. Putting down Olympic Games that have not happened yet doesnt make Vancouve's more magical. Russians are opening and closing the sales for figure skating in intervals, the first tickets costed 50 euros and they were sold out in Russia almost 6 months before the international sales. For long time now pairs and ladies free are sold out and on men they stayed now the A category. The prices are keeping the same (sorry 3000 dollars for figure skating is outrageous for any viewer and sport wont gain more fans) because you need a spectator pass to attach to your ticket, meaning you cannot sell illegaly any ticket to anyone if you dont accompany him , only through FantoFan with 30% commision or via Cosport. Sochi is convienet for Europe now, the trip for me was way cheaper than travelling to Vancouver, so I guess it depends where you live, I certainly appreciate I could buy cheap tickets and watch Olys.
Last edited by seniorita; 01-24-2014 at 02:35 PM.
01-24-2014, 02:30 PM
Plushenkos program is not empty. That's just a lie proven false by Volvo cup videos.
01-24-2014, 03:12 PM
Um, did you not see his SP and FS at Russian nationals? Even some of his own supporters admitted that the SP was garbage in terms of choreo, and the FS without the successful jumps fell flat. It's like he absolutely abandoned his choreographic progress displayed at Euros 2012 and reverted back to his formulaic basic choreography circa 2006 -- probably knowing that he could skate any basic choreo program on Sochi ice and be given high PCS marks. I'm hoping the ISU judges don't pull another Cup of Russia and simply grant him high PCS marks if he goes clean, because his programs aren't much of an improvement from his 2006 LP (which was probably his worst program in terms of content outside of the elements).
Originally Posted by gmyers
01-24-2014, 03:23 PM
You are correct, but there is "controversy" from the perspective of a knowledgable skating fan and "controversy" from the perspective of a casual viewer. If Plushenko is clean and wins and Chan falls once to come in second, it may be a controversy here because it would mean Plushenko was likely overmarked in PCS. However, in a broader sense it would not be controversial to the general public because they prefer a clean performance winning over a visibly flawed one. I don't feel that the ISU is concerned about this type of controversy. What they don't want is a skater falling multiple times and beating several clean performances.
Originally Posted by wallylutz
01-24-2014, 03:26 PM
My main issue with Plushenko is that he didn't have the courage to compete at Europeans. I lost respect for him because of that.
That's what bothers me too. Friends have already asked me about him after media articles…. who he is… why he could have a secret test skate etc. I tell them my view and send them links to what I think are the best men's figure skating performances this season.
Originally Posted by Kinga
I think Mathman is right. When time comes and the judges sit there feeling the love from the audience, hearing the crowd shouting they will reward him big. I've seen interviews with judges praising Plushenko. Judges are humans too
Originally Posted by wallylutz
No one knows for sure what Plushenko's free skate program will be. He changes a lot