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Thread: Russia chooses Plushenko for Sochi Olympics

  1. #31
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puchi View Post
    So Plushenko's lifetime "body of work" (see reputation) trumps Kovtun's achievements this season (2 GP medals, only Russian man in the GPF and National title)? Where's the petition to send Kovtun to the Olympics?

    Where's The High Horse Brigade Of Crushed Olympic Dreams when you need it?
    what petition? The vast majority of Russians are happy with the decision

  2. #32
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    I look forward to the Olys because I love figure skating. I look forward to them being over so we don't have to have this Plushenko discussion ever again. Body of work doesn't count for the past 16 years.....the reality of it is it should only count for the last 4 years. Kovtun is young. He's had alot of pressure on him. I expect to see him in 2018. He's been in an untenable situation this year. Give the guy a break.

  3. #33
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    do you know this?

    Plushy's free program with two quads, of which the second quadruple was with triple toe loop, two triple axels, five jumps in the second half of program.

    I remember, you said that is impossible to do two quads in his age..

  4. #34
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^ I hope he goes for one quad though.

    There is a video, I suppose it will emerge at some point public. Also Plushenko has not deprived anyone of their deserved spot, he has not eaten all their food either, RF sends him (it isnt even official) , and there were pretty lots of people involved in the test skate watching.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    In record he does not remain the strongest candidate if you consider actual performances over the past two years. He has pulled out of a terrible Euros 2013 SP (due to injury), and he has had exactly 2 competitions since, where he did one clean SP and one disastrous SP as well as one clean FS and one disastrous FS. Plushenko hasn't even skated a full ISU competition in 4 years.
    What is the disastrous sp after Euros 2013? If you mean the Volvo sp, you must have missed the note that Plushenko went through sp in Volvo just to sail to FS and get the demanded TES. Given their pace of training to Olys, I thought it was wise even if he missed the single quad there. On top of that sports is strategy as well, they stayed home and worked and didnt miss time for Euros with the blessing of his own Federation. Did Plushenko know Kovtun will crash at Euros? No, he just kept training. He has earned this luxury to choose his competitions. Although I was pretty sure RF wanted to send Kovtun to Olys firstly, the thing is that with mistakes Plush can score as much as a perfect Kovtun. He can score 81 in sp with no quad in it, while Kovtun needs to be perfect with his ambitious sp. He might skate in individuals anyway, who knows.
    And I thought Europeans 2012 is an ISU competition.
    Last edited by seniorita; 01-22-2014 at 03:32 AM.

  5. #35
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    I meant two years not four. However why was Plushenko allowed a test skate and not Kovtun? Plushenko messed up in his Russian Nationals FS so surely Kovtun deserves a second chance after messing up Euros.

    Oh well. I'm hoping this doesn't build resentment in Kovtun. I'd almost leave Russia out of spite and find another country who won't send their veteran regardless of how he skates.

    And plushy fan I said he wouldn't be able to do a clean skate with 2 quads now and according to the test skate his solo quad wasn't clean. And we can't be sure how clean his other jumps were, eg if he doubles both triple axels then he could still call that "clean". Who's to say otherwise since there is no video. Obviously he will say that he did everything, and maybe the spectators were told to say the same if anyone asked about it.

    Bottom line: I will believe he skated as well as he did in his test skate when I see it in Sochi. Otherwise his most recent skate at Russian nationals is what I have to base him on. And even if there were video it's not the same pressure and competitive environment. It's a test skate where officials are there with the hope that you will do the bare minimum (whatever that is) and even if you don't its not like the general public can verify anything you tell them. Let's see what he can do in Sochi against some real competition.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    what petition? The vast majority of Russians are happy with the decision
    Yeah, but when Mirai was denied a spot, people did send a petition. And as someone said earlier, sending Wagner was much more justified than sending Plushenko. So I totally see why some people would want to send a petition for Kovtun/Voronov.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panini View Post
    If it was such a tall order for Kovtun to get Russia two spots at 2013 Worlds, maybe his team shouldn't have insisted on sending him over skaters who beat him at Nationals
    Yeah, that was unfortunate decision, but that was again not Kovtun's decision. And I honestly doubt that any of those guys who beat him at Nationals last year would have secured two spots for Russia. Menshov last year was really not that great and it was not written in stone that he would have placed in top 10. We will never know, but that is beating a dead horse. I think Kovtun's last year performance at Worlds is irrelevant for the Oly's discussion.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Oh well. I'm hoping this doesn't build resentment in Kovtun. I'd almost leave Russia out of spite and find another country who won't send their veteran regardless of how he skates.
    Plushenko isn't exactly just any veteran as you imply ! I am absolutely sure that if any other federation had to make the choice between Plushenko in a decent shape and a no name that didn't exactly take the figure skating world by storm,they would have also chosen Plushenko. Just tell us which is the brave federation that would have done otherwise and would have worried about whats fair for the skater. Imagine Kwan, Chan, Boitano etc. in Plushy's place .
    Moreover, why do you base all your assumptions on Plushy's LP from RN? Yes, he had a bad skate but this does not mean that he can't skate better as you seem to be sure.
    I think that his jumping problems were also generated by the new layout with the 3A and the 3Lz in the second part of the program.He might be his consistent self again if he moves back the 3A in the first part.
    Excepting the jumping mistakes, the rest of Plush skating was not bad at all and with some improvement I don't think that he'll embarass himself.
    (I saw today picture of Plush taken yesterday and he really looked very thin, thinner than in December, so this will also help with his jumps!)

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I meant two years not four. However why was Plushenko allowed a test skate and not Kovtun? Plushenko messed up in his Russian Nationals FS so surely Kovtun deserves a second chance after messing up Euros.

    Oh well. I'm hoping this doesn't build resentment in Kovtun. I'd almost leave Russia out of spite and find another country who won't send their veteran regardless of how he skates.

    And plushy fan I said he wouldn't be able to do a clean skate with 2 quads now and according to the test skate his solo quad wasn't clean. And we can't be sure how clean his other jumps were, eg if he doubles both triple axels then he could still call that "clean". Who's to say otherwise since there is no video. Obviously he will say that he did everything, and maybe the spectators were told to say the same if anyone asked about it.

    Bottom line: I will believe he skated as well as he did in his test skate when I see it in Sochi. Otherwise his most recent skate at Russian nationals is what I have to base him on. And even if there were video it's not the same pressure and competitive environment. It's a test skate where officials are there with the hope that you will do the bare minimum (whatever that is) and even if you don't its not like the general public can verify anything you tell them. Let's see what he can do in Sochi against some real competition.
    This decision is harder to defend than Dai or Ashley being sent over Oda, Kozuka and Mirai but it is in the rules of the Russian skating committee. On a side note not that this should be considered remember Kovotun was the benefactor last year of such arbitrariness and while this clearly is and should not be considered Plushy will bring in the fans andmedia attention. Now with so many posts can someone tell me what are the rules if Plushy can't skate on after the team competition? Can Russia replace Plushy after the team comp?

  9. #39
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    Everything that was bad about Plushenko - mediocre spins, lousy transitions, awful choreography, unintentional burlesque interpretation - is still all there. It would be one thing if his jump arsenal was so much more impressive than the rest of the field, but it's not, and he's neither consistent with them nor will he be receiving high GOE for them.

    I'm unsure why he even wants to do this. He's 31, his body is injured, he's married, has kids, and already won a gold medal and two silvers. Why does he even want to do this? His chances of winning are close to zero, and I'd be surprised if he even showed up on the podium. It seems like a guy who just can't move on with his life and wants to keep re-living the glory days.

    I'd personally send Voronov myself, despite his shaky track record, I think he would have confidence coming off his Euro's performance.

  10. #40
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    That Plushenko can not only handle Olympic pressure but defeat it is a known fact, a known quantity, and his iron will has never faltered, nor will it do so now.
    That's what I'm saying: Send Katarina Witt! And send Dick Button and Scott Hamilton instead of Abbott and Brown - they both have the far better olympic record!

    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    what petition? The vast majority of Russians are happy with the decision
    If Daisuke Takahasi had not skated great at NHK and finished 11th at Japanese Nationals, the vast majority of Japanese would still want him on the Olympic Team. Sometimes a sporting federation has to take the unpopular decision to stick to sporting values.

    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    Kovtun is young. He's had alot of pressure on him. I expect to see him in 2018. He's been in an untenable situation this year. Give the guy a break.
    What if Plushenko feels he has open business after Sochi, and makes another comeback 2018?

    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    What is the disastrous sp after Euros 2013? If you mean the Volvo sp, you must have missed the note that Plushenko went through sp in Volvo just to sail to FS and get the demanded TES.
    So when he performs poorly, it's only because he didn't "feel the need to perform well"?
    LOL - I knew the expression "he just can't win with you, no matter what he does", but here, it's more "he just can't lose with you!"

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Now with so many posts can someone tell me what are the rules if Plushy can't skate on after the team competition? Can Russia replace Plushy after the team comp?
    The rule is that if he withdraws after the team event then Russian will not have a man in the individual event.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The rule is that if he withdraws after the team event then Russian will not have a man in the individual event.
    That's actually not the rule at all. It's what Icenetwork claims to be the rule, but which does not apply in such a case. If Plush withdraws after the team event, the IOC Replacement Policy will apply, which basically says: Everything is at the IOC's discretion.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by caelum View Post
    I'm unsure why he even wants to do this. He's 31, his body is injured, he's married, has kids, and already won a gold medal and two silvers. Why does he even want to do this? His chances of winning are close to zero, and I'd be surprised if he even showed up on the podium. It seems like a guy who just can't move on with his life and wants to keep re-living the glory days.
    Because 4 Olympic medals is better than 3? Russia is all but guaranteed a team medal with gold being a possibility. He would tie the record and would be the only athlete (in figure skating) to have that many in recent Olympic history. And on the off chance that pigs fly and he makes the individual podium, that would make it 5 medals for him and he'd be the sole record holder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    What if Plushenko feels he has open business after Sochi, and makes another comeback 2018?
    He's clearly only interested in this competition (the crème de la crème of this sport) because it's on home soil. If it were in another country I believe he'd be retired already. And he's been expressing interest in it since 2010. I highly doubt he'll be back in 2018 and if he's still Russia's biggest skater by then...then that's just a really pathetic state of affairs. After Sochi I heard he wants to coach.

  14. #44
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Thats an easy example how news can be spread without the writer having read the actual rules. It is surprising the article still is on. A replacement falls under IOC rules, not under ISU communication or what Ciquanta says.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    That's what I'm saying: Send Katarina Witt! And send Dick Button and Scott Hamilton instead of Abbott and Brown - they both have the far better olympic record!
    That would have been awesome, especially Mr Button but unfortunately they cannot go because they dont have the required TES for both sp and lp. Plushenko has.

    So when he performs poorly, it's only because he didn't "feel the need to perform well"?
    LOL - I knew the expression "he just can't win with you, no matter what he does", but here, it's more "he just can't lose with you!"
    Funny indeed. Please do not take my words out of context, this is not what I said and if you had read any of my posts about RN you would know better. First of all I did not think his sp was poorly performed in Volvo competition to even think of an excuse. I certainly didnt expect Plushenko to start landing 4-4 on his first comp. I said he went for his TES score in the Lp, how he would perform the sp was irrelevant at that time.
    Last edited by seniorita; 01-22-2014 at 10:08 AM.

  15. #45
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    I give Kovtun credit at least he was out there all season fighting the good fight and not waiting until someone failed to get a spot to Sochi. Plushenko didn't even have the guts to go to Europeans. If he can't handle 3 competitions in about a month and a half then he shouldn't go.

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