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Thread: Russia chooses Plushenko for Sochi Olympics

  1. #46
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I dont think one is really in a position to judge Plushenko guts when it comes to figure skating. Maybe Tarasova should have been as strategic to not burn Kovtun out since last Worlds and send him to do 5 quads per competition with such small success rate, although this time all was lloking good for him, he could have won Euros with less, the judges certainly think he has pcs among the tops. Also Plushenko has had his share of competitions in his career, when Kovtun gets to Plush status he will have the luxury to skip events as well in order to train which firstly RF accepted, and I m pretty sure they dont put Plushenko's ambition above RUssia's performance in Olys.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    This decision is harder to defend than Dai or Ashley being sent over Oda, Kozuka and Mirai but it is in the rules of the Russian skating committee. On a side note not that this should be considered remember Kovotun was the benefactor last year of such arbitrariness and while this clearly is and should not be considered Plushy will bring in the fans andmedia attention. Now with so many posts can someone tell me what are the rules if Plushy can't skate on after the team competition? Can Russia replace Plushy after the team comp?
    To be honest, I think this decision was easier than Dai going, as he also bombed nationals but the ones he denied going to Sochi - particularly Oda - had done considerably well this year. Maxim had two silvers, but not the GPF bronze. Let's not forget that Plushenko also had a clean SP at Russian Nationals too, even with the disaster FS - and placed 2nd, immediately putting Voronov/Menshov out of consideration (as if they ever were given the Russian fed). Dai bombed in both programs, placed 5th and was still sent - his NHK win and popularity probably saving him. Dai however was indeed much more respectful about the whole situation and certainly didn't demand his spot or denigrate his fellow compatriots.

    I also don't think Kovtun was a "benefactor" - sure he got Worlds experience, but they didn't do him any favours sending him to Worlds when Junior Worlds would have been a much more viable/expected option. Just because he was sent to Worlds on a whim from the Russian fed doesn't mean he should be denied the Olympics for a similar situation.

    And at least Kovtun being sent to Worlds over Voronov was based off the results of a legitimate competition against Voronov (EC 2013), and not some closed door test skate.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by caelum View Post
    I'm unsure why he even wants to do this. He's 31, his body is injured, he's married, has kids, and already won a gold medal and two silvers. Why does he even want to do this? His chances of winning are close to zero, and I'd be surprised if he even showed up on the podium. It seems like a guy who just can't move on with his life and wants to keep re-living the glory days.
    If he can make it through the two programs of the team event he is assured of a medal, his 4th in 4 Olympics.

  4. #49
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Can Russia replace Plushy after the team comp?
    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The rule is that if he withdraws after the team event then Russian will not have a man in the individual event.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post
    That's actually not the rule at all. It's what Icenetwork claims to be the rule, but which does not apply in such a case. If Plush withdraws after the team event, the IOC Replacement Policy will apply, which basically says: Everything is at the IOC's discretion.
    Given the massive discussions that started after Plushy's statements that he'd only do the Team Event and let another promising young skater compete in the Individual Competition, Mr. Ottavio Cinquanta himself, aka Mr. ISU, clarified that this exact scenario would not be possible. The skater would have to withdraw before the Team Event to be replaced in the Individual Competition.
    As drivingmissdasy said, if Plushenko skates in the Team Event and then says he's injured, there will be no Russian man in the Men's Individual event.
    Loophole closed.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by amber68 View Post
    Plushenko isn't exactly just any veteran as you imply ! I am absolutely sure that if any other federation had to make the choice between Plushenko in a decent shape and a no name that didn't exactly take the figure skating world by storm,they would have also chosen Plushenko. Just tell us which is the brave federation that would have done otherwise and would have worried about whats fair for the skater. Imagine Kwan, Chan, Boitano etc. in Plushy's place .
    Moreover, why do you base all your assumptions on Plushy's LP from RN? Yes, he had a bad skate but this does not mean that he can't skate better as you seem to be sure.
    I think that his jumping problems were also generated by the new layout with the 3A and the 3Lz in the second part of the program.He might be his consistent self again if he moves back the 3A in the first part.
    Excepting the jumping mistakes, the rest of Plush skating was not bad at all and with some improvement I don't think that he'll embarass himself.
    (I saw today picture of Plush taken yesterday and he really looked very thin, thinner than in December, so this will also help with his jumps!)
    I don't think Kwan, Chan, Boitano would have skipped Euros if they were trying to prove they were the right choice for the Olympics.

    Oh, and I know he CAN skate better than Russian Nationals. But I certainly don't think he can skate as good as he was in 2012, especially with his programs (although his program content is negligible as long as he skates clean... or not even if he skates clean, as Russian Nationals PCS showed). Like with all skaters, I'm tentatively optimistic about Plushenko and even if he bombs in Sochi it's still remarkable what he's been able to do post-surgery. I just don't think, especially with his past success, that he should deny skaters who haven't had an Olympic experience themselves and go about it in a way that isn't particularly transparent, and certainly not in a way that bashed his fellow skaters.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Given the massive discussions that started after Plushy's statements that he'd only do the Team Event and let another promising young skater compete in the Individual Competition, Mr. Ottavio Cinquanta himself, aka Mr. ISU, clarified that this exact scenario would not be possible. The skater would have to withdraw before the Team Event to be replaced in the Individual Competition.
    As drivingmissdasy said, if Plushenko skates in the Team Event and then says he's injured, there will be no Russian man in the Men's Individual event.
    Loophole closed.
    Which is good, because then they can't manipulate with injury withdrawals, as they had probably planned to do. I don't want Plushenko to injure himself, but he should compete in both team and individual, even if team is an easy medal and individual event he risks a poor placement to end his career.

  7. #52
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    I said he went for his TES score in the Lp, how he would perform the sp was irrelevant at that time.
    OK, cool. So, since the RN were the only competition where Plushy and Kovtun competed against each other, then that competition was the only relevant one for Sochi. Kovtun's FS at Euros was irrelevant at that time. Glad you agree with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I give Kovtun credit at least he was out there all season fighting the good fight and not waiting until someone failed to get a spot to Sochi. Plushenko didn't even have the guts to go to Europeans. If he can't handle 3 competitions in about a month and a half then he shouldn't go.


    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Maybe Tarasova should have been as strategic to not burn Kovtun out since last Worlds and send him to do 5 quads per competition with such small success rate, although this time all was lloking good for him, he could have won Euros with less, the judges certainly think he has pcs among the tops.
    So according to "Plushy's Law", Tarasova would have made sure Kovtun goes to Sochi by
    - not letting him go to last year's WC.
    - not participating in Cup of China where he finished 2nd
    - not participating in Cup of Russia where he finished 2nd (since those 2 ended up qualifying him for the big event where he had a bad performance)
    - not qualifying for the GP Final
    - withdrawing from any further competition after winning the Russian Nationals to make sure no Russian skater gets a chance to beat him.

    That might be Plushenko's approach, but I don't think you get very far in life with that attitude.
    Plushenko made it far in the past, when he didn't have that attitude. Now, to me, he's just tarnishing what would have been an immortal reputation as one of the all-time greats.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Dai however was indeed much more respectful about the whole situation and certainly didn't demand his spot or denigrate his fellow compatriots.
    Makes all the difference to me. I was hoping for Kozuka, but I love Dai and have no ill will whatsoever towards him. Plushy's way of acting, criticizing Kovtun just before the EC where he himself didn't dare to show up to "set things right" after having lost the RN, is far from classy imo.
    Last edited by seniorita; 01-22-2014 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Multiple posts merged

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Given the massive discussions that started after Plushy's statements that he'd only do the Team Event and let another promising young skater compete in the Individual Competition, Mr. Ottavio Cinquanta himself, aka Mr. ISU, clarified that this exact scenario would not be possible. The skater would have to withdraw before the Team Event to be replaced in the Individual Competition.
    As drivingmissdasy said, if Plushenko skates in the Team Event and then says he's injured, there will be no Russian man in the Men's Individual event.
    Loophole closed.
    The IOC can do whatever it pleases, probably in accordance with the ISU/Mr. Cinquanta. So if they want Russia's spot in the individual event gone, there'll be no replacement. But the scenario as such is certainly still possible, not only for Plushenko but for everyone else, too. If they close the so called "loophole" it'll be by influencing the IOC's discretion/authority on the matter, nothing else, and it would actually be more a case of circumventing existing rules than "closing a loophole".

  9. #54
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    Ouch. THe team skate is gong to create interesting nuances. So it appears Plushy has to do both. He appears in better shape than say a month ago admittedly and he still has two plus weeks to nail his programs. Maybe Mao, Osmond, Wagner, Gold, Suzuki and all would have skipped the opening ceremonies to train if it weren't for the team event. Some will try to treat the competition as practice - is it really ore draining. I guess it cuts down practice time but many skaters run through both programs twice in a day at least so this sh ouldn't be so horrendous though the pressure is different i guess. Does this favour Squared, Javier, Ten and Yuna because their competitiors will be tired? has anyone computed the ordinal type system to see how assured Russia, Canada and the US are guaranteed a medal. THe ordinal system allows Japan and Italy to stay in the mix in particular and maybe China too. Now if it was total points I think we would see some problems. The first three teams have top ten skaters in all four events. The other nations have major weaknesses. Great Britain seems in particular vulnerable though some hope with a euro bronze in ice dance though two top teams weren't there.

  10. #55
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Please do use multi quote button.


    Mr. Ottavio Cinquanta himself, aka Mr. ISU, clarified that this exact scenario would not be possible. The skater would have to withdraw before the Team Event to be replaced in the Individual Competition.
    Maybe Ciquanta will be called to rephrase then cause it is not correct unless IOC has a change in rules. As K pointed out for anyone reading the 1844 there are two replacement deadlines: 5 Feb 10am for the TE and not after and 10 Feb 10am for the individual events. After team event and until 10 Feb 10am, a skater can be replaced in the individual event with IOC having to agree with it.
    Last edited by seniorita; 01-22-2014 at 11:02 AM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Last edited by seniorita; Today at 04:55 PM.
    Can some technically savvy person tell me why my post was last edited by someone else?!?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Can some technically savvy person tell me why my post was last edited by someone else?!?
    It wasn't edited by "someone else", it was edited by one of the moderators.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    It wasn't edited by "someone else", it was edited by one of the moderators.
    if by "one of the moderators" you mean seniorita, shouldn't she inform me of that? and tell me why? and what she actually changed? shouldn't it say "mod" somewhere next to seniorita's custom title/avatar?

  14. #59
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    My position on this is merely a personal one. I am not surprised Plushenko was/will be named to the team.

    But I don't need to see skate again. Ever.

  15. #60
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Can some technically savvy person tell me why my post was last edited by someone else?!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    if by "one of the moderators" you mean seniorita, shouldn't she inform me of that? and tell me why? and what she actually changed? shouldn't it say "mod" somewhere next to seniorita's custom title/avatar?
    Frenchie:

    Based on what I can see in seniorita's annotation to your post (#52) and in seniorita's subsequent post (#55), I would say that her reasonable point is that all of us should be using the multi-quote feature to reply to multiple posts. (Apologies to seniorita if my interpretation is wrong.).

    Multi-quoting is less "taxing" on the GS server(s?), according to what I have read on GS in the distant past.

    And overtaxing the GS server(s) can cause major problems (or even outages) for all users -- as we experienced during the heavy traffic caused by the concurrence of U.S. Nationals and Canadian Nationals.

    One instance of one member failing to use the multi-quote feature for a few replies might seem like a drop in the bucket.
    But multiply that one drop x thousands of views (as some threads receive) x hundreds or thousands of members who are not multi-quoting, and I can imagine that the extra demand on the GS server(s) becomes a real risk.

    So esp. with the Olympics right around the corner, getting everyone in the habit of multi-quoting is a good thing for all of us.

    And FYI, all of the GS mods are listed in this thread in the Feedback section, which also includes their mini-bios.

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