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Thread: Turn! Turn! Turn!

  1. #16
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    let me see

    from what i can gather then that when sashe does her change of edge camel spin, its a back spin regardless of edge changing, which was the confusion initially. however joesitx says

    "Sarah and now Sasha, do a back outside camel and in the middle of it will switch into a forward inside camel. Not terribly difficult but very pretty and effective."

    so really they start off with the outside edge with the weight at the front of the skate making in a back direction spin on the back outside edge then changing into a back direction spin ALSO but edge changing to a forward inside meaning the weight is at the back of the skate. is that right?
    the confusion arises from the edge description ie back outside camel and the direction of the spin which is also back. the implication of a so called forward inside camel implies a spin in the other direction but really describes the weight placement of the skater on the edge they are on.

    tell me this is right!

  2. #17
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Re: let me see

    Originally posted by adamlondon
    [Bso really they start off with the outside edge with the weight at the front of the skate making in a back direction spin on the back outside edge then changing into a back direction spin ALSO but edge changing to a forward inside meaning the weight is at the back of the skate. is that right?
    the confusion arises from the edge description ie back outside camel and the direction of the spin which is also back. the implication of a so called forward inside camel implies a spin in the other direction but really describes the weight placement of the skater on the edge they are on.

    tell me this is right! [/B]
    Yup, you got it and said much better than me.

    Putting the weight on the front of the skate will get a back outside spin or a back inside spin depending on what the skater wants. Similarly putting the weight on the back of the skate will give the skaters the forward edge

    Sarah and Sasha both do a back outside camel putting their weight on the front of the skate and after so many turns they put their weight on the back of the sate and the spin turns into a forward inside camel.

    gkelly - Calling a back inside edge scratch spin a forward spin is a leap but I'll go along with you.

    Joe

  3. #18
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    Why are you singling me out? icenut84 and nthuz said the same thing. Go to any rink and ask a coach to demonstrate a "forward upright spin" or "forward scratch spin" and check which edge they spin on. It's standard terminology.

    Try these sources:

    Don Korte's technical skating site:
    http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_spins_index.htm

    USFSA singles/pairs judges manual:
    http://www.usfigureskating.org/conte...Manual2-02.pdf

    Note that that link is to a PDF; you might be better off right clicking to save it to your hard drive and opening it from there because clicking directly will crash some browsers.

    Scroll down to "spins" for an official definition.
    Last edited by gkelly; 02-20-2004 at 10:37 AM.

  4. #19
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    I'm not singling you out. If it seems that way, then I am not making myself clear. Sorry. Your posts on the scratch spin being a forward spin is ok with me. It's just that for me, it is either a spin on the flat or a back inside spin. I am not arguing with anyone. I'm just stating my views. Hope you are ok with that.

    Joe

  5. #20
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    It hasn't really got anything to do with "views" though - gkelly is right. There are two basic types of spin - a "forward spin" and a "backspin". A normal "forward" spin is performed on a back inside edge. The name is quite deceptive, but it's just what it is, it's a fact. A normal "backspin" is performed on a back outside edge. So in this instance, you can so a forward scratch spin (which would be on a back inside edge) and a back scratch spin (which would be on a back outside edge). A backspin is learnt after the forward spin, and is more difficult when you're first learning it, but obviously when you get to elite level (and before that) you have little problem performing either.

    Just to confuse the matter, sometimes you get skaters who actually do spin on the forward EDGE. This is usually during a camel spin, I assume because the slower speed makes it easier to control than it would be in a faster spin. Sometimes a regular forward spin (back inside edge) can be changed to a forward outside EDGE. Also, sometimes a back outside edge spin (a backspin) can be changed to a forward inside EDGE (usually following a flying camel - Sasha Cohen, Sarah Hughes and Fumie Suguri all do this sometimes). Both of these variations are more difficult than the regular spin, and that's why they get extra points under COP. If they were of the same difficulty, everyone would be doing them.

    However, sometimes a skater spins on the forward inside edge on a backspin and it is a quality error, i.e. not deliberate. This is often the case if the edge switches during a sit spin or upright spin. This would warrant a very slight deduction, as it shows a lack of quality in the ability to stay on the back outside edge, and sometimes a lack of balance too.

    Finally - I haven't learnt it myself, but I'm pretty sure that there's more involved that just putting the weight on the back of your blade during a spin in order to switch edges. If your weight goes back like that, you fall over. Simple. They don't just put their weight back, I believe they actually have to turn.

    "Putting the weight on the front of the skate will get a back outside spin or a back inside spin depending on what the skater wants."

    This is technically incorrect. Assuming a skater spins in only one direction, a back inside spin and a back outside spin are done on different FEET. For a CCW skater, a back inside spin (i.e. a "forward spin") is done on the left foot. A back outside spin (i.e. a "backspin") is done on the right foot. Fact. It's got nothing to do with where your weight is. It's near the front of the blade for both anyway.

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