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Thread: Ice Dance - 2014 JR. Russian Championships

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    anyone can clearly see Bukin is the better skater,
    they are not evenly matched as a pair in terms of skills like Sinitsina / Zhiganshin
    this is important as they might become a Gorshkova / Butikov or Monko / Khaliavin team who did not improve in seniors

    Ivan Bukin needs someone who can help him get deep and better edges
    go look at Sinitsina or Elena's edges and how they stroke
    sky_fly20, if it was up to you, you would manage to dissolve the whole Russian team! In your opinion, Davankova and Derputat should give up because of their height. They have currently the second highest score internationally from all Russian juniors (only Vigalova/Zokroev have higher), but you would just dump them because in your eyes they don't deserve it. Despite them obtaining higher score internationally than Tarasova/Morozov! You would get rid of Monko-Khaliavin from the same reasons. You would suggest the reigning world junior champions Stepanova/Bukin to split (only because they did not manage to push through in their first senior season). You spoke against Tuktamysheva (who is too overweight for you)... I believe you also (wrongly) forecasted the split between Martiusheva and Rogonov...also lack of height difference in your eyes. Please, tell us, is there ANY Russian skaters you actually LIKE? and don't hold back; I do wonder whether you have at least as many favourites as you have the skaters you hate.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    sky_fly20, if it was up to you, you would manage to dissolve the whole Russian team! In your opinion, Davankova and Derputat should give up because of their height. They have currently the second highest score internationally from all Russian juniors (only Vigalova/Zokroev have higher), but you would just dump them because in your eyes they don't deserve it. Despite them obtaining higher score internationally than Tarasova/Morozov! You would get rid of Monko-Khaliavin from the same reasons. You would suggest the reigning world junior champions Stepanova/Bukin to split (only because they did not manage to push through in their first senior season). You spoke against Tuktamysheva (who is too overweight for you)... I believe you also (wrongly) forecasted the split between Martiusheva and Rogonov...also lack of height difference in your eyes. Please, tell us, is there ANY Russian skaters you actually LIKE? and don't hold back; I do wonder whether you have at least as many favourites as you have the skaters you hate.
    Monko / Khaliavin's PB is like from 3 years ago, they can't be improved mainly because of their height, do you understand that
    they can never get proper nor difficult lifts, Martiusheva / Rogonov are simply inconistent, Rogonov btw got married so they too have probably retired

    I do agree Davankova / Deputat are very talented such a waste she grew so tall
    they will end up like the Zhangs who will be too tall for him and eventually split up

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Monko / Khaliavin's PB is like from 3 years ago, they can't be improved mainly because of their height, do you understand that
    they can never get proper nor difficult lifts, Martiusheva / Rogonov are simply inconistent, Rogonov btw got married so they too have probably retired

    I do agree Davankova / Deputat are very talented such a waste she grew so tall
    they will end up like the Zhangs who will be too tall for him and eventually split up
    Re: the highlighted, it is not matter of understanding; it is a matter of agreeing with you. Monko / Khaliavin have been getting pretty decent results this season and I definitely not agree with your claim that Monko / Khaliavin are going the same way as Gorshkova / Butikov. Maybe in your dreams!

    Re: Davankova and Deputat, it actually depends on them, not on you or your opinion. They have proved this season that they can skate with the high difference as it is now. Now it depends on whether they will be consistent and manage successfully to transform into a senior team, but the elements are being done. They may manage, or may not, but it is definitely not as bleak as you are implying.

    I agree that Martiusheva / Rogonov are being inconsistent; usually Martiusheva can't land her jumps to save her life and when the current juniors move to the seniors from next season, I do think M/R will disappear from any major international competitions. They did not have a much chance to be sent to Europeans/Worlds, but have been getting at least the GP. From the next season they probably won't be getting those either,so their only chance will be senior B competitions. But they did defy your frequent predictions about them splitting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Re: the highlighted, it is not matter of understanding; it is a matter of agreeing with you. Monko / Khaliavin have been getting pretty decent results this season and I definitely not agree with your claim that Monko / Khaliavin are going the same way as Gorshkova / Butikov. Maybe in your dreams!
    you do realize that Monko / Khalaivin have been beaten by teams they have beaten at juniors namely Ilinykh / Katsalapov and Sinitsina / Zhiganshin
    anyone who gets beaten in a B event with some obscure dancers competing like Ralph / Hill is hopeless. their SB is in 130s
    while Ilinykh / Katasalpov are getting 170s and Sinitsina / Zhiganshin in 150s

    the results here btw were correct as Y/M made a mistake on their twizzles
    Yanovskaya / Mozgov have good prospects for snior, he is very tall, they are athletic type of skaters capable of good lifts
    S/B wont be on the podium at Jr. Worlds if Y/M, H/B and M/C skate their best

    so only Ilinykh / Kataslapov, Sinitsina / Zhiganshin and Yanovskaya / Mozogov will do well for seniors next quad

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    you do realize that Monko / Khalaivin have been beaten by teams they have beaten at juniors namely Ilinykh / Katsalapov and Sinitsina / Zhiganshin
    anyone who gets beaten in a B event with some obscure dancers competing like Ralph / Hill is hopeless. their SB is in 130s

    while Ilinykh / Katasalpov are getting 170s and Sinitsina / Zhiganshin in 150s
    You do have some problems with your memory! Monko/ Khaliavin have beaten Ilinykh/Katsalapov at JGPF in 2009 but I believe it was I/K's first internationals season and they haven't been together that long (relatively speaking). At the end of the same season I/K beat M/K at junior worlds (placed 2 places higher), and since then they have beaten them regularly in majority (or all?) competitions they skated against therm, so I am missing your point that M/K are being beaten by I/K. Of course they are because I/K are better. It still doesn't mean that M/K are done.

    In regards to S/Z, M/K won JGPf and junior worlds in season 2010-2011 and S/Z won exactly the same the following season. Unfortunately Khaliavin fell ill with mononucleosis and lost a whole season 2011-2012. At the moment, M/K and S/Z are at very comparable level (which is to be expected, considering that M/K lost the whole season). M/K did slightly better at the GP events, S/Z did slightly better at Russian nationals. At any day they could swap their results. It is not that S/Z is clearly better than M/K; they just got their chance to go to Europeans because they managed to do one competition (Russian nationals) better. But it was pretty close. At their GP events M/K placed 5th and 6th, S/Z placed 8th... This season I liked more S/Z but I wouldn't go as far as claiming that they are that much better than M/K and that M/K have no chance to beat them!

    By the way, check your facts before you spew even more poison around. M/K's season best is not in 130! It is 145.92. From Rostelecom Cup. Compared with S/Z's scores throughout the season: NHK Trophy 124.23, Winter Universiade 142.50 and European Championships 153.73... Well, I am sorry, S/Z had slightly higher the season best, but not significantly higher, and if you look at their other international results that season, surely you must see that they are not THAT better. They are pretty much the same.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Because it is so easy at this level to find a partner. You just go to a shop and get one, like a socks...
    Tiffany Zahorski (last skated for France with Miart) is actively looking for a partner. Bukin has been mentioned as a possibility by her mom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    You do have some problems with your memory! Monko/ Khaliavin have beaten Ilinykh/Katsalapov at JGPF in 2009 but I believe it was I/K's first internationals season and they haven't been together that long (relatively speaking). At the end of the same season I/K beat M/K at junior worlds (placed 2 places higher), and since then they have beaten them regularly in majority (or all?) competitions they skated against therm, so I am missing your point that M/K are being beaten by I/K. Of course they are because I/K are better. It still doesn't mean that M/K are done.

    In regards to S/Z, M/K won JGPf and junior worlds in season 2010-2011 and S/Z won exactly the same the following season. Unfortunately Khaliavin fell ill with mononucleosis and lost a whole season 2011-2012. At the moment, M/K and S/Z are at very comparable level (which is to be expected, considering that M/K lost the whole season). M/K did slightly better at the GP events, S/Z did slightly better at Russian nationals. At any day they could swap their results. It is not that S/Z is clearly better than M/K; they just got their chance to go to Europeans because they managed to do one competition (Russian nationals) better. But it was pretty close. At their GP events M/K placed 5th and 6th, S/Z placed 8th... This season I liked more S/Z but I wouldn't go as far as claiming that they are that much better than M/K and that M/K have no chance to beat them!

    By the way, check your facts. M/K's season best is not in 130! It is 145.92. From Rostelecom Cup.
    they didn't improved, S/Z finished last at their only GP, medaled in Universiade ( M/K were the lowest placed Russian ) again mealed Nationals nd placed 4th at Europeans beating R/T in TES and PCS, clearly you're joking if you think Monko / Khaliavin are comparable to Victoria and Ruslans

    I dont see Monko/Khaliavin ever being in Top 3 Russian next quad
    while Sinistina / Zhiganshin have a good shot of being in Top 3 team

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Tiffany Zahorski (last skated for France with Miart) is actively looking for a partner. Bukin has been mentioned as a possibility by her mom.
    really ? I've heard rumors that S/B practices have not been doing well
    he is having trouble especially with Stepanova doing lifts, their coaches Svinin/Zhuk even mentioned she just gotten too tall

  9. #24
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    Tiffany is even taller than Stepanova

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    they didn't improved, S/Z finished last at their only GP, medaled in Universiade ( M/K were the lowest placed Russian ) again mealed Nationals
    and placed 4th at Europeans beating R/T in PCS, clearly you're joking if you think Monko / Khaliavin are comparable to Victoria and Riuslans

    I dont see Monko/Khaliavin ever being in Top 3 Russian next quad
    while Sinistina / Zhiganshin have a good shot of being in Top 3 team

    I do hope that next season Riazanova/Tkachenko drop one more place lower at Russian nationals, but the third place will be fight between M/K and S/Z. And I wouldn't be so sure that it will be S/Z who will win. It can be either of those two couples. The fact that S/Z managed to beat M/K in one competition does not mean much. It was only one competition and not even an international competition. It did earn them a place at Europeans and Olympics but Russian Federation will not give them automatic place for the next 4 years. Attendance at next year's Europeans and Worlds will again depend on the results of next year's nationals. See what happened Leonova last year? Did not deliver at nationals, was not sent to Europeans. And S/Z have not had Leonova's past results (medals at Worlds). So I would wait before you award the "Russian team number three" for the next 4 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I do hope that next season Riazanova/Tkachenko drop one more place lower at Russian nationals, but the third place will be fight between M/K and S/Z. And I wouldn't be so sure that it will be S/Z who will win. It can be either of those two couples. The fact that S/Z managed to beat M/K in one competition does not mean much. It was only one competition and not even an international competition. It did earn them a place at Europeans and Olympics but Russian Federation will not give them automatic place for the next 4 years. Attendance at next year's Europeans and Worlds will again depend on the results of next year's nationals. See what happened Leonova last year? Did not deliver at nationals, was not sent to Europeans. And S/Z have not had Leonova's past results (medals at Worlds). So I would wait before you award the "Russian team number three" for the next 4 years.
    yeah one competition, lets not count every other competition they had competing against each other including at Universiade
    remember Ice Dancing pecking order is harder to shake up than singles where skaters can stack or drop anytime
    also the Rus Fed did not support any skaters other than I/K and B/S this season but still S/Z came on top 3
    the judges at Euros saw this and they got the signal and they got higher PCS than R/T

    in terms of real potential next quad only S/Z and Y/M have it
    S/Z are evenly matched with very good skating skills and good speed
    Y/M are athletic couple which will do well for them in lifts and holds

    I cant think of any advantages for M/K or S/B sorry

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post

    I cant think of any advantages for M/K or S/B sorry
    I don't really care what you can find, as long as the judges will find them!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Re: Davankova and Deputat, it actually depends on them, not on you or your opinion. They have proved this season that they can skate with the high difference as it is now. Now it depends on whether they will be consistent and manage successfully to transform into a senior team, but the elements are being done. They may manage, or may not, but it is definitely not as bleak as you are implying.

    I agree that Martiusheva / Rogonov are being inconsistent; usually Martiusheva can't land her jumps to save her life and when the current juniors move to the seniors from next season, I do think M/R will disappear from any major international competitions. They did not have a much chance to be sent to Europeans/Worlds, but have been getting at least the GP. From the next season they probably won't be getting those either,so their only chance will be senior B competitions. But they did defy your frequent predictions about them splitting!
    The current juniors are overrated. Only Tarasova/Morozov and Davankova/Deputat are ready for the senior ranks.
    Vigalova/Zakroev and Fedorova/Miroshkin lack triple jumps and are relying on their height differences to rack up points. They'll do no better than M/R in seniors. The girls should get younger male partners and stay in the junior ranks until they're able to land triple jumps.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    you do realize that Monko / Khalaivin have been beaten by teams they have beaten at juniors namely Ilinykh / Katsalapov and Sinitsina / Zhiganshin
    anyone who gets beaten in a B event with some obscure dancers competing like Ralph / Hill is hopeless. their SB is in 130s
    while Ilinykh / Katasalpov are getting 170s and Sinitsina / Zhiganshin in 150s

    the results here btw were correct as Y/M made a mistake on their twizzles
    Yanovskaya / Mozgov have good prospects for snior, he is very tall, they are athletic type of skaters capable of good lifts
    S/B wont be on the podium at Jr. Worlds if Y/M, H/B and M/C skate their best

    so only Ilinykh / Kataslapov, Sinitsina / Zhiganshin and Yanovskaya / Mozogov will do well for seniors next quad
    If you are annoying about D/D's similar height, you should not deny S/Z also has similar height. Bukin has better skating skill than Zhiganshin, also Sinitsina has terrible position as Bobrova.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassiem View Post
    The current juniors are overrated. Only Tarasova/Morozov and Davankova/Deputat are ready for the senior ranks.
    Vigalova/Zakroev and Fedorova/Miroshkin lack triple jumps and are relying on their height differences to rack up points. They'll do no better than M/R in seniors. The girls should get younger male partners and stay in the junior ranks until they're able to land triple jumps.
    That may be a good strategy for Vygalova, who will be 15 this year, but Fedorova will be 17, so there is not much point finding a new partner, starting with him from zero (learning new timing on jumps, throw jumps, twists, spins...) and then aging out in a year. I agree that some of the juniors are still not ready for seniors; to be fair, I am not even sure if Tarasova/Morozov and Davankova/Deputat are ready; they do look like senior pairs (more powerful skating and appears that they have gone through the puberty) but I don't think they have the elements that would be expected in seniors within Russia. On the other hand, they do still have eight months till the (next) season starts. A lot can happen within eight months. They all can have suddenly two different triples in their arsenal. Considering how many triples most of Russian juniors ladies have by the age of 13, I can't see why Vygalova, Fedorova, Davankova and Tarasova could not learn two different triples within the next 8 months. And the worse would happen that for a year they won't be competitive; they will be just working on their elements and emerge a season later, as strong seniors.

    By the way, where was Denney/Frazier this season after winning last years junior worlds? 5th and 5th at their GP events. Purdy/Marinaro were 8th and 8th at their GP events (after placing 2nd last year at junior worlds). My point is, MOST PAIRS, no matter how strong at juniors, are not ready with the transition to seniors. Usually it takes a while to establish themselves. Both Bazarova & Larionov and Stolbova&Klimov took a few years to start getting results. In fact, I think most of those talented Russian junior teams (the four teams above) won't be competing in the Olympics in 2018 yet. Although by then they will be pretty decent, I think there will be still stronger teams then them who won't be retired and who will beat them at nationals. We will see.

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