Ice Dance - 2014 JR. Russian Championships | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Ice Dance - 2014 JR. Russian Championships

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Because it is so easy at this level to find a partner. You just go to a shop and get one, like a socks... :rolleye:

Tiffany Zahorski (last skated for France with Miart) is actively looking for a partner. Bukin has been mentioned as a possibility by her mom.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
You do have some problems with your memory! Monko/ Khaliavin have beaten Ilinykh/Katsalapov at JGPF in 2009 but I believe it was I/K's first internationals season and they haven't been together that long (relatively speaking). At the end of the same season I/K beat M/K at junior worlds (placed 2 places higher), and since then they have beaten them regularly in majority (or all?) competitions they skated against therm, so I am missing your point that M/K are being beaten by I/K. Of course they are because I/K are better. It still doesn't mean that M/K are done.

In regards to S/Z, M/K won JGPf and junior worlds in season 2010-2011 and S/Z won exactly the same the following season. Unfortunately Khaliavin fell ill with mononucleosis and lost a whole season 2011-2012. At the moment, M/K and S/Z are at very comparable level (which is to be expected, considering that M/K lost the whole season). M/K did slightly better at the GP events, S/Z did slightly better at Russian nationals. At any day they could swap their results. It is not that S/Z is clearly better than M/K; they just got their chance to go to Europeans because they managed to do one competition (Russian nationals) better. But it was pretty close. At their GP events M/K placed 5th and 6th, S/Z placed 8th... This season I liked more S/Z but I wouldn't go as far as claiming that they are that much better than M/K and that M/K have no chance to beat them!

By the way, check your facts. M/K's season best is not in 130! It is 145.92. From Rostelecom Cup. :laugh:

they didn't improved, S/Z finished last at their only GP, medaled in Universiade ( M/K were the lowest placed Russian ) again mealed Nationals nd placed 4th at Europeans beating R/T in TES and PCS, clearly you're joking if you think Monko / Khaliavin are comparable to Victoria and Ruslans :unsure:

I dont see Monko/Khaliavin ever being in Top 3 Russian next quad
while Sinistina / Zhiganshin have a good shot of being in Top 3 team
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Tiffany Zahorski (last skated for France with Miart) is actively looking for a partner. Bukin has been mentioned as a possibility by her mom.

really ? I've heard rumors that S/B practices have not been doing well
he is having trouble especially with Stepanova doing lifts, their coaches Svinin/Zhuk even mentioned she just gotten too tall
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
they didn't improved, S/Z finished last at their only GP, medaled in Universiade ( M/K were the lowest placed Russian ) again mealed Nationals
and placed 4th at Europeans beating R/T in PCS, clearly you're joking if you think Monko / Khaliavin are comparable to Victoria and Riuslans :unsure:

I dont see Monko/Khaliavin ever being in Top 3 Russian next quad
while Sinistina / Zhiganshin have a good shot of being in Top 3 team


I do hope that next season Riazanova/Tkachenko drop one more place lower at Russian nationals, but the third place will be fight between M/K and S/Z. And I wouldn't be so sure that it will be S/Z who will win. It can be either of those two couples. The fact that S/Z managed to beat M/K in one competition does not mean much. It was only one competition and not even an international competition. It did earn them a place at Europeans and Olympics but Russian Federation will not give them automatic place for the next 4 years. Attendance at next year's Europeans and Worlds will again depend on the results of next year's nationals. See what happened Leonova last year? Did not deliver at nationals, was not sent to Europeans. And S/Z have not had Leonova's past results (medals at Worlds). So I would wait before you award the "Russian team number three" for the next 4 years.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I do hope that next season Riazanova/Tkachenko drop one more place lower at Russian nationals, but the third place will be fight between M/K and S/Z. And I wouldn't be so sure that it will be S/Z who will win. It can be either of those two couples. The fact that S/Z managed to beat M/K in one competition does not mean much. It was only one competition and not even an international competition. It did earn them a place at Europeans and Olympics but Russian Federation will not give them automatic place for the next 4 years. Attendance at next year's Europeans and Worlds will again depend on the results of next year's nationals. See what happened Leonova last year? Did not deliver at nationals, was not sent to Europeans. And S/Z have not had Leonova's past results (medals at Worlds). So I would wait before you award the "Russian team number three" for the next 4 years.

yeah one competition, lets not count every other competition they had competing against each other including at Universiade :rolleye:
remember Ice Dancing pecking order is harder to shake up than singles where skaters can stack or drop anytime
also the Rus Fed did not support any skaters other than I/K and B/S this season but still S/Z came on top 3
the judges at Euros saw this and they got the signal and they got higher PCS than R/T

in terms of real potential next quad only S/Z and Y/M have it
S/Z are evenly matched with very good skating skills and good speed
Y/M are athletic couple which will do well for them in lifts and holds

I cant think of any advantages for M/K or S/B sorry
 

cassiem

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Re: Davankova and Deputat, it actually depends on them, not on you or your opinion. They have proved this season that they can skate with the high difference as it is now. Now it depends on whether they will be consistent and manage successfully to transform into a senior team, but the elements are being done. They may manage, or may not, but it is definitely not as bleak as you are implying.

I agree that Martiusheva / Rogonov are being inconsistent; usually Martiusheva can't land her jumps to save her life and when the current juniors move to the seniors from next season, I do think M/R will disappear from any major international competitions. They did not have a much chance to be sent to Europeans/Worlds, but have been getting at least the GP. From the next season they probably won't be getting those either,so their only chance will be senior B competitions. But they did defy your frequent predictions about them splitting! :clap:
The current juniors are overrated. Only Tarasova/Morozov and Davankova/Deputat are ready for the senior ranks.
Vigalova/Zakroev and Fedorova/Miroshkin lack triple jumps and are relying on their height differences to rack up points. They'll do no better than M/R in seniors. The girls should get younger male partners and stay in the junior ranks until they're able to land triple jumps.
 

viviabond

Spectator
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
you do realize that Monko / Khalaivin have been beaten by teams they have beaten at juniors namely Ilinykh / Katsalapov and Sinitsina / Zhiganshin
anyone who gets beaten in a B event with some obscure dancers competing like Ralph / Hill is hopeless. their SB is in 130s
while Ilinykh / Katasalpov are getting 170s and Sinitsina / Zhiganshin in 150s

the results here btw were correct as Y/M made a mistake on their twizzles
Yanovskaya / Mozgov have good prospects for snior, he is very tall, they are athletic type of skaters capable of good lifts
S/B wont be on the podium at Jr. Worlds if Y/M, H/B and M/C skate their best

so only Ilinykh / Kataslapov, Sinitsina / Zhiganshin and Yanovskaya / Mozogov will do well for seniors next quad
If you are annoying about D/D's similar height, you should not deny S/Z also has similar height. Bukin has better skating skill than Zhiganshin, also Sinitsina has terrible position as Bobrova.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
The current juniors are overrated. Only Tarasova/Morozov and Davankova/Deputat are ready for the senior ranks.
Vigalova/Zakroev and Fedorova/Miroshkin lack triple jumps and are relying on their height differences to rack up points. They'll do no better than M/R in seniors. The girls should get younger male partners and stay in the junior ranks until they're able to land triple jumps.

That may be a good strategy for Vygalova, who will be 15 this year, but Fedorova will be 17, so there is not much point finding a new partner, starting with him from zero (learning new timing on jumps, throw jumps, twists, spins...) and then aging out in a year. I agree that some of the juniors are still not ready for seniors; to be fair, I am not even sure if Tarasova/Morozov and Davankova/Deputat are ready; they do look like senior pairs (more powerful skating and appears that they have gone through the puberty) but I don't think they have the elements that would be expected in seniors within Russia. On the other hand, they do still have eight months till the (next) season starts. A lot can happen within eight months. They all can have suddenly two different triples in their arsenal. Considering how many triples most of Russian juniors ladies have by the age of 13, I can't see why Vygalova, Fedorova, Davankova and Tarasova could not learn two different triples within the next 8 months. And the worse would happen that for a year they won't be competitive; they will be just working on their elements and emerge a season later, as strong seniors.

By the way, where was Denney/Frazier this season after winning last years junior worlds? 5th and 5th at their GP events. Purdy/Marinaro were 8th and 8th at their GP events (after placing 2nd last year at junior worlds). My point is, MOST PAIRS, no matter how strong at juniors, are not ready with the transition to seniors. Usually it takes a while to establish themselves. Both Bazarova & Larionov and Stolbova&Klimov took a few years to start getting results. In fact, I think most of those talented Russian junior teams (the four teams above) won't be competing in the Olympics in 2018 yet. Although by then they will be pretty decent, I think there will be still stronger teams then them who won't be retired and who will beat them at nationals. We will see.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
If you are annoying about D/D's similar height, you should not deny S/Z also has similar height. Bukin has better skating skill than Zhiganshin, also Sinitsina has terrible position as Bobrova.

sky_fly20 has an issue with skaters height, weight, body shape and sometimes also nationality. I wouldn't take most of what sky_fly20 says seriously. Not point worrying about it because luckily the judges don't agree with sky_fly20.
 

cassiem

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
That may be a good strategy for Vygalova, who will be 15 this year, but Fedorova will be 17, so there is not much point finding a new partner, starting with him from zero (learning new timing on jumps, throw jumps, twists, spins...) and then aging out in a year. I agree that some of the juniors are still not ready for seniors; to be fair, I am not even sure if Tarasova/Morozov and Davankova/Deputat are ready; they do look like senior pairs (more powerful skating and appears that they have gone through the puberty) but I don't think they have the elements that would be expected in seniors within Russia. On the other hand, they do still have eight months till the (next) season starts. A lot can happen within eight months. They all can have suddenly two different triples in their arsenal. Considering how many triples most of Russian juniors ladies have by the age of 13, I can't see why Vygalova, Fedorova, Davankova and Tarasova could not learn two different triples within the next 8 months. And the worse would happen that for a year they won't be competitive; they will be just working on their elements and emerge a season later, as strong seniors.

By the way, where was Denney/Frazier this season after winning last years junior worlds? 5th and 5th at their GP events. Purdy/Marinaro were 8th and 8th at their GP events (after placing 2nd last year at junior worlds). My point is, MOST PAIRS, no matter how strong at juniors, are not ready with the transition to seniors. Usually it takes a while to establish themselves. Both Bazarova & Larionov and Stolbova&Klimov took a few years to start getting results. In fact, I think most of those talented Russian junior teams (the four teams above) won't be competing in the Olympics in 2018 yet. Although by then they will be pretty decent, I think there will be still stronger teams then them who won't be retired and who will beat them at nationals. We will see.
Fedorova can skate in juniors for three more seasons, she turned 16 only last month. It's clear that she isn't a good jumper. She's always struggled, even on doubles. The idea that in eight months she'll be able to land two kinds of triples is rather farfetched. I'm also skeptical about Vigalova (though I do think Vigalova is great in many respects). You shouldn't expect pair girls to have the same rapid jumping success as the ones who stay in singles. Girls typically go into pairs if jumping is not their strength.

Anyway, I never said that triple jumps are a guarantee of senior success, just that they're a prerequisite. So, my point is, don't expect the Russian juniors to sweep aside current seniors who are inconsistent, like M/R. Right now there are only two junior pairs with the technical goods to be able to move up to seniors (and they're not guaranteed to be successful either, as you pointed out.)
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Anyway, I never said that triple jumps are a guarantee of senior success, just that they're a prerequisite. So, my point is, don't expect the Russian juniors to sweep aside current seniors who are inconsistent, like M/R. Right now there are only two junior pairs with the technical goods to be able to move up to seniors (and they're not guaranteed to be successful either, as you pointed out.)

In some aspect I am expecting the current junior pairs to sweep aside current seniors that are inconsistent. I obviously don't think that they would be able to kick Volosozhar/Trankov, Stolbova/Klimov or Bazarova/Larionov (or Kavaguti/Smirnov when or if they return) off their spot at the Europeans/Worlds next season, neither I think that they will catch up on Antipova/Maisuradze who improved a lot in the last year. But on the other hand you have to realise that it is Russian Federation that is submitting names for GP events. If three current junior pairs (V/Z, F/M and D/D) managed to beat Gerboldt/Enbert at Russian nationals, what do you think are the chances that the Russian Federation will submit G/E for GP event? Unfortunately Martiusheva/Rogonov did not compete at the nationals, but if they are going to be beaten at Russian internal competitions by current juniors (and I can imagine it happening), they are not going to be submitted either. Federation has the power to choose who will be submitted for events.
 
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