2014 4CCs Free Dance

colleen o'neill · Jan 23, 2014

Yes, Madi's mistake on the twizzles obviously made all the difference in the SD. Considering her ongoing health problems , it was nice to see them skate so well in the FD.

I like G/P's stationary lift ,too . Very effective. I wouldn't be surprised to see them keep it for a while.. I'd say Zach has been more successful in matching Madi than Piper has in matching Paul , so far.

Didn't Aldridge and Eaton do well , though. They very firmly bridged the gap between G/P and R/H and O/W. ( R/H and O/W should be taking note of this.)

I still see R/H and O/W as pretty equal , but with different strengths and weaknesses. I disliked both their FD's this year ,for different reasons , but feel both really need choreographic upgrades and perhaps need to rethink their coaching situations as P/I did a couple of seasons ago. ( or their coaches need to upgrade their programs to give the skaters what they need)

wishonastar · Jan 23, 2014

Great competition. Enjoyed the top three teams Congratulations especially to Madi and Zach. They have fought through injuries (including a labrial tear that is still in need of repair) all season, and still were able to win Nebelhorn, medal on the GP, place 4th at Nationals, and win Four Continents.

dorispulaski · Jan 23, 2014

This is true re P&G at 4CC's last year-but also the tech calling at last year's 4CC's was some of the most peculiar I've seen in a while.

It's worth noting that at Worlds, P&G did not get anything like the same levels, nor the same scores.
C&B finished 7th, Shibutanis 8th, P&G were 15th in the Sd, 18th in the FD for a total score of 140.02.

Ryan O · Jan 23, 2014

I thought H&D skated pretty well overall in the short - I thought Madison's twizzle mistake was fairly minor, but yes it made a difference. I don't know if it was the only factor though. It seems the judges preferred the overall SD of G&P since they gave it a 62 which is higher than the 60 they got at this event last year. Of course all of this is relative since each panel is different.

It may also be that the panel was tougher on G&P in this FD as Doris suggested above. I was interested to compare their scores with last year, so as I linked above, G&P actually got a FD score that was 6 points higher at this event last year and was the same as the one H&D got today. It may there was a harder panel for G&P this time, or it may be that there are some areas of the Hitchcock program that are not getting the levels that they got in their Wild Spirits program last year. Might be worthwhile for Carol Lane & their team to compare their scores from this year and last year and see where the difference lies.

Ryan O · Jan 23, 2014

dorispulaski said:
This is true re P&G at 4CC's last year-but also the tech calling at last year's 4CC's was some of the most peculiar I've seen in a while.

It's worth noting that at Worlds, P&G did not get anything like the same levels, nor the same scores.
C&B finished 7th, Shibutanis 8th, P&G were 15th in the Sd, 18th in the FD for a total score of 140.02.

True. But last year's Worlds was an off-skate for G&P - they were not at their best, particularly in the FD. They dropped 3 spots in the FD at Worlds because Paul had a weird spinout on the twizzles where he had to put his hands down on the ice. He's usually one of the most consistent ice dancers in Canada, so that was a rare messup which unfortunately marred G&P's first Worlds together.

And while it was Paul's 4th Worlds (he had been to 3 of them with Vanessa), it was Piper & Paul's first Worlds together so I think that may have been a factor. I think Weaver & Poje finished 20th at their first Worlds, so I'm hoping that at their next Worlds that G&P will get into the top 10 and improve their result. Paul got as high as 7th with Vanessa, and I'm hoping he and Piper can work their way up over the next few years.

dorispulaski · Jan 23, 2014

I expect Piper & Paul to skate much better at this year's Worlds, if V&M retire, as I think they have said they likely will. And if Meryl & Charlie retire, Maddy & Zach will be there too. Yes, G&P didn't skate well at Worlds.

colleen o'neill · Jan 23, 2014

RyanO , re: the SD, how can that be ? Due to H/D not making a level 4 on the twizzles ,only a 3, their base value was only 4.00 whereas Piper and Paul got their level 4 for a base value of 6.00 that's 2 points before awarding GOE... The difference in total marks between the two teams in the SD was only 1.33.. It must have been the main negative factor. ( I'm no expert, but this case is really simple and clear.)

Ryan O · Jan 23, 2014

colleen o'neill said:
Yes, Madi's mistake on the twizzles obviously made all the difference in the SD. Considering her ongoing health problems , it was nice to see them skate so well in the FD.

I like G/P's stationary lift ,too . Very effective. I wouldn't be surprised to see them keep it for a while.. I'd say Zach has been more successful in matching Madi than Piper has in matching Paul , so far.

Didn't Aldridge and Eaton do well , though. They very firmly bridged the gap between G/P and R/H and O/W. ( R/H and O/W should be taking note of this.)

I still see R/H and O/W as pretty equal , but with different strengths and weaknesses. I disliked both their FD's this year ,for different reasons , but feel both really need choreographic upgrades and perhaps need to rethink their coaching situations as P/I did a couple of seasons ago. ( or their coaches need to upgrade their programs to give the skaters what they need)

I agree with the overall thrust of most of your comments.

I think it's true that Madison & Zach are a bit further ahead in terms of their matching than Piper & Paul, but part of that is probably because they have been together for a bit longer and were able to start competing internationally their first year together because they were both American. Piper & Paul got together a bit later and had to miss a year of international competition while she was released from the USFSA. They made the Canadian podium at their first Nationals, but R&H were given their spot at Worlds that year while they had to sit out waiting for Piper's release.

The coaching situation you mention is interesting, but making those decisions is always complex. I think you may be right that a couple of the Canadian dance teams could benefit from some coaching/choreographic/geographic moves, but it's hard to know who most needs it or how to weigh the factors. R&H have been in Toronto with Carol Lane's group for many years, and seem comfortable training with G&P (and used to train with Crone & Poirier too). They have a comfort zone there, but maybe they might benefit from some change down the road. For that matter, although G&P are happy with Carol Lane and Poirier has been with her since he was young, they too might want to consider some coaching change over the next couple years before the next Olympics, in case they start to enter a plateau phase.

Not as familiar with Orford & Williams and the B.C. dance scene, but I know that they seem happy with their coaches Wing & Lowe so far. They have talked about growing up watching Wing & Lowe at Nationals and how they are mentors to them and I think they were the coaches who helped them form their partnership. But it's possible they may want to fly the nest down the road.

Mao88 · Jan 23, 2014

FREE DANCE - VIDEOS & RESULT

1. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE (USA) - 158.25 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
2. Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER (CAN) - 153.71 Free Dance
3. Alexandra ALDRIDGE / Daniel EATON (USA) - 144.95 Free Dance
4. Kharis RALPH / Asher HILL (CAN) - 137.03 Free Dance
5. Nicole ORFORD / Thomas WILLIAMS (CAN) - 133.42
6. Lynn KRIENGKRAIRUT / Logan GIULIETTI-SCHMITT (USA) - 130.05 Free Dance
7. Danielle OBRIEN / Gregory MERRIMAN (AUS) - 121.44
8. Yiyi ZHANG / Nan WU (CHN) - 116.34
9. Shiyue WANG / Xinyu LIU (CHN) - 115.66
10. Yura MIN / Timothy KOLETO (KOR) - 111.23 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
11. Yue ZHAO / Chang LIU (CHN) - 99.84
12. Emi HIRAI / Marien DE LA ASUNCION (JPN) - 99.82 Free Dance, 2nd Copy

Medal Ceremony (2nd Copy), Complete Free Dance Groups 1+2, Complete Free Dance Group 3

demarinis5 · Jan 23, 2014

Thanks for the videos Mao88! Looking forward to watching. Sounds like it was a good competition.

Congrats to Madison and Zach on their Gold Medal win and to G/P and A/E for winning the Silver and Bronze!

TontoK · Jan 23, 2014

Hey, Turbo-Mom!

Congratulations! Alex and Daniel get their first medal in a big ISU championship!

Proud for them and for you!

Turbo-Mom · Jan 23, 2014

I’m elated and so proud. I thought all the Teams and the LOC did great. I particularly love Lynn and Logan’s Free Dance to Sparticus. The music is phenomenal and they portrayed the characters very well. Charis and Asher were a very pleasant surprise as I had not seen them skate this year. Alex and Daniel have skated with Nicole and Thomas for several years and I thought they skated great. It was nice seeing Piper – When she trained in Detroit, Daniel and her used to make cookies all the time for UnitedSkates coaches (The Dream Team).

Maddie and Zack have had a full plate all year. Injuries are difficult enough but when your hurt, its stresses you and your families beyond anything you can imagine. It like watching grass grow waiting for God to work his miracle while your body heals. I thought they skated great and the interview after-words was really, really good. Congratulations. The season is probably over for Alex and Daniel. We are so proud of them and get tears watching replays of them skating together.

I guess we will regroup at home and hear what Angelika and Pasquale have planned for them. Couple of Interviews from US Nationals that you might enjoy.
Interview with Tonia Kliatkowski
http://youtu.be/_uJ5bt9JJ1o

Interview on Social Scene
[url]http://youtu.be/ouixjiLSQHk[/URL]

GO TEAM USA AT 2014 WINTER OLYMPICS AND OGM FOR MERYL AND CHARLIE

Matilda · Jan 23, 2014

So happy for Madi and Zach!! :yay: I love that FD and that was probably the best they've skated it this year. They were living that music :love:

Madi is one heck of a fighter, and her team clearly acknowledged it in the K&C

Zach is adorable and the chemistry between the two is just wonderful. What a lovely couple, on and off the ice. I hope Madi heals completely and they'll be ready to conquer the world next season!

I love Piper and Paul's Hitchcock program as well, and would love to see it again in the Worlds!

conga · Jan 23, 2014

I really enjoyed the competition. I was torn between cheering for G/P or H/D because I love both their FDs and they are so different. After G/P skated, I thought they might deserve to stay in first place...but then H/D skated and they were just sublime!

Maybe I am one of the few who liked R/H's FD (not the costumes), but I definitely preferred them over O/W. I didn't like their program and thought the music was terribly poor. (Seriously, sometimes I wish there could be music deductions for selections and editing. The deductions would need to be determined by musicians and music editors, though, and not skating judges or tech panel. LOL) I loved K/G-S' Spartacus program and thought they were undermarked in PCS. I was also very happy for O/M. I enjoyed that performance and it was great to see them come out and skate well after their disappointment in the SD. I hope they have a wonderful Olympic experience!

Ryan O · Jan 23, 2014

I've always liked the Bohemian Rhapsody music, but for me the Crone & Poirier version of it from 2010 is still my favourite so I found it hard to compare it to H&D.

I was sad to see C&P go separate ways in 2011 (although I've read they're still friends), but I think in some ways G&P may have better chemistry. It's hard to compare because C&P were kids & teenagers when they were together and had a gentle interaction like V&M in their early days. Because G&P started skating together when they were older and are young adults, they've got a different chemistry than C&P - more playful and flirtatious perhaps.

In some ways H&D remind me of a pairs team because Zach is a big guy and is built more like a pairs skater!

Orford/Williams and Ralph/Hill are closely matched, but it seems that O&W are losing a bit of momentum this year. They finished behind R&H at this event, and also dropped below K/G-S in the FD. I believe O&W were also overtaken in the FD at Nationals by Paradis/Ouellette and barely stayed ahead of R&H. Nothing major at this point, but interesting.

chuckm · Jan 23, 2014

O/W's FD music was wretched. There was almost nothing they could have done to it or with it that would have made a difference. Also, Nicole has got to stop wearing costumes that use so much fabric. The fabric swallows up both her and her partner and it is very distracting. On top of that it is very SHINY fabric, which makes it even worse.

blancanieves · Jan 23, 2014

conga said:
Maybe I am one of the few who liked R/H's FD (not the costumes), but I definitely preferred them over O/W.

I loved R/H's music and program. Although, perhaps it ultimately wasn't a good choice. It's a really strong vehicle for Asher, but Kharis cannot match his performance yet.

blue_idealist · Jan 24, 2014

blancanieves said:
I loved R/H's music and program. Although, perhaps it ultimately wasn't a good choice. It's a really strong vehicle for Asher, but Kharis cannot match his performance yet.

I do like it, although it reminds me of one of their past programs, the last one they did that was kind of African-themed.

blue_idealist · Jan 24, 2014

chuckm said:
O/W's FD music was wretched. There was almost nothing they could have done to it or with it that would have made a difference. Also, Nicole has got to stop wearing costumes that use so much fabric. The fabric swallows up both her and her partner and it is very distracting. On top of that it is very SHINY fabric, which makes it even worse.

Lol I actually like the music... but yes, she is very thin (I saw her in person at Canadian Nats) so she shouldn't be wearing dresses that swallow her up.

jolen · Jan 26, 2014

Ryan O said:
I've always liked the Bohemian Rhapsody music, but for me the Crone & Poirier version of it from 2010 is still my favourite so I found it hard to compare it to H&D.

I was sad to see C&P go separate ways in 2011 (although I've read they're still friends), but I think in some ways G&P may have better chemistry. It's hard to compare because C&P were kids & teenagers when they were together and had a gentle interaction like V&M in their early days. Because G&P started skating together when they were older and are young adults, they've got a different chemistry than C&P - more playful and flirtatious perhaps.

In some ways H&D remind me of a pairs team because Zach is a big guy and is built more like a pairs skater!

Orford/Williams and Ralph/Hill are closely matched, but it seems that O&W are losing a bit of momentum this year. They finished behind R&H at this event, and also dropped below K/G-S in the FD. I believe O&W were also overtaken in the FD at Nationals by Paradis/Ouellette and barely stayed ahead of R&H. Nothing major at this point, but interesting.

Definitely not friends.

2014 4CCs Free Dance

colleen o'neill

wishonastar

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Ryan O

Ryan O

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

colleen o'neill

Ryan O

Mao88

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

TontoK

Hot Tonto

Turbo-Mom

Matilda

conga

Ryan O

chuckm

blancanieves

blue_idealist

blue_idealist

jolen

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