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Thread: Russian Olympic Team

  1. #61
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    B/S should do team because I/K blow everything and all their chances and now will blow RUssia's chance to win team gold because everyone agrees they don't train properly for a senior ice dance team. I no longer believe Russia will medal in the team event.
    B/S are not the pictures of consistency either. Look I/K scored 100 in the free with a fall. I think its worth taking them.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    B/S are not the pictures of consistency either. Look I/K scored 100 in the free with a fall. I think its worth taking them.
    I don't believe I/K can be trusted at the Olympics. The pressure of Euros was too much. They also lost the SD when they didn't make a mistake. They can't beat C/L clean and they couldn't do the free dance without huge mistakes. It's true that B/S aren't models of consistency either but they train and don't give up when there's a mistake like I/K do. So one mistake for I/K and against US and Canada and Italy or France that's it, Russia goes behind all those teams. Russia basically has no dance team in the event if I/K make a mistake.

  3. #63
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I don't believe I/K can be trusted at the Olympics. The pressure of Euros was too much. They also lost the SD when they didn't make a mistake. They can't beat C/L clean and they couldn't do the free dance without huge mistakes. It's true that B/S aren't models of consistency either but they train and don't give up when there's a mistake like I/K do. So one mistake for I/K and against US and Canada and Italy or France that's it, Russia goes behind all those teams. Russia basically has no dance team in the event if I/K make a mistake.
    I think the goal is B/S short, I/K free. I/K are normally good for one really good competition, I'm not sure France was it. They will probably actually train hard for the Olympics, and I think they go clean bronze is likely theirs. The judges signaled that when they put them above the French in France.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I don't believe I/K can be trusted at the Olympics. The pressure of Euros was too much. They also lost the SD when they didn't make a mistake. They can't beat C/L clean and they couldn't do the free dance without huge mistakes. It's true that B/S aren't models of consistency either but they train and don't give up when there's a mistake like I/K do. So one mistake for I/K and against US and Canada and Italy or France that's it, Russia goes behind all those teams. Russia basically has no dance team in the event if I/K make a mistake.
    Well the only way they're going to learn how to cope is actually through experiences like these. Their Canadian contemporaries P/I have had four long years of making catastrophic mistakes both at nationals and on the GP circuit. Finally this year for the first time they're competing outside nationals. They are a beautiful pair. Their is no one model of development that will fit every team.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It is what it is. If anything, the Russian men were pretty much slim pickings, so might as well go with the guy who will pull in the buzz/spectators/talkability/popularity, even if he hasn't actually earned it (in a competitive/public forum at least).
    Isn't it amazing that the Russian men used to be very deep while the women were extremely slim pickings, now it's the opposite.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    That's a bit unfair to Adelina, particularly when she's skated some very good short programs (and beat Julia in many short programs) this year. It also makes no sense why they would split up ice dance (obviously pairs is to rest up V/T), and not the ladies.
    Except for most of the season Adelina has been hit or miss. I think it's safe to say that Julia is the most consistent at delivering a medal worthy program. All she needs to do in the short is keep it close (Top 5), and that FS (minus Cup of Russia) has aged like wine - it's getting better and better; both the team and individual if she is in the top 5 after the short as long she doesn't do a splatfest she's gonna medal, regardless of what any other skater does, unless Gracie & the other Japanese ladies throw in a triple axel or 2. And for all we know Adelina might be dealing with an injury, and they don't want to announce it, because then people would question why is she going over a healthy Alena.

    And if the US ladies team taught us anything- it's not about being fair, it's about who gives the country (in the Fed's mind) the best shot at medals. Maybe the Russian Fed. has realized they maybe have propped Adelina up too much?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I think the goal is B/S short, I/K free. I/K are normally good for one really good competition, I'm not sure France was it. They will probably actually train hard for the Olympics, and I think they go clean bronze is likely theirs. The judges signaled that when they put them above the French in France.
    Its possible their one good competition this season was that TEB. It seems like it was. They were clean in the SD at Euros and C/L beat them in that. If they are clean and C/L are clean or W/P or C/B or B/S they will beat I/K.

    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    Well the only way they're going to learn how to cope is actually through experiences like these. Their Canadian contemporaries P/I have had four long years of making catastrophic mistakes both at nationals and on the GP circuit. Finally this year for the first time they're competing outside nationals. They are a beautiful pair. Their is no one model of development that will fit every team.
    I am not sure about them learning. When they placed 10th in the FD at the 2013 worlds with extremely low TES they actually appeared at their first GP event doing mostly level 2's.

  8. #68
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Its possible their one good competition this season was that TEB. It seems like it was. They were clean in the SD at Euros and C/L beat them in that. If they are clean and C/L are clean or W/P or C/B or B/S they will beat I/K.



    I am not sure about them learning. When they placed 10th in the FD at the 2013 worlds with extremely low TES they actually appeared at their first GP event doing mostly level 2's.
    I/K nearly won Euros with a fall.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I/K nearly won Euros with a fall.
    The winning of Euros without B/S and P/B really doesn't mean anything. They did almost win but if everyone was there they wouldn't have medaled. They couldn't beat C/L without a fall in the SD. That was a judgement by the judges. Two teams doing clean programs and the team with the highest was C/L. If I/K were really good they would've won with the fall. They didn't lose because of the twizzle or fall but the step sequence level being 2.

  10. #70
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    It's a good question. Do they go with the team that defeated the French in the short twice, but lost with mistakes in a free they are no longer skating? Or do they go with a team that lost to the Shibutani's early in the season & the Italians at Europeans w/a fall, but defeated the French in France? Hmm, so . . . I think I&K may be the surprise of the dance competition. Their Swan Lake is stellar. (Their short not-so-much). BUT I think I&K are volatile. At their very best, they MAYBE finish one spot about B/S--in the individual event. Which means . . . Russia might as well go with the proven team in the team event. If I was a team coach (which I'm certainly not), I'd put up that team. The one that got the bronze at Worlds, defeated the French in the short twice, and defeated W&P & C&L at the GPF. I&K have potential. But B&S's result at Worlds last year is the reason Russia is a favorite for bronze in the dance event.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Dance View Post
    It's a good question. Do they go with the team that defeated the French in the short twice, but lost with mistakes in a free they are no longer skating? Or do they go with a team that lost to the Shibutani's early in the season & the Italians at Europeans w/a fall, but defeated the French in France? Hmm, so . . . I think I&K may be the surprise of the dance competition. Their Swan Lake is stellar. (Their short not-so-much). BUT I think I&K are volatile. At their very best, they MAYBE finish one spot about B/S--in the individual event. Which means . . . Russia might as well go with the proven team in the team event. If I was a team coach (which I'm certainly not), I'd put up that team. The one that got the bronze at Worlds, defeated the French in the short twice, and defeated W&P & C&L at the GPF. I&K have potential. But B&S's result at Worlds last year is the reason Russia is a favorite for bronze in the dance event.
    I thoroughly agree. I still maintain that B&S' bronze last year (compared to I/K's 9th) holds them in much higher regard, even if I/K have vastly improved their skating (just not their consistency). I've remained steadfast in my belief that they will win bronze and be the highest Russian ice dance team in the team and individual events.

  12. #72
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    Well I am not sure it will make a huge difference in the free skate. One would anticipate USA and Canada ahead of Russia in dance which leaves probably Japan and Italy to compete against in dance. The Japanese are no match and at worst it should be close with the Italians with either Russian team so it isn't the biggest gamble.

  13. #73
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Kind of off topic and I considered stating a new thread but decided against it being that there are enough threads to go around now. I just want to point out something that dawned on me today. I usually watch only the Ladies,sometimes the men, and rarely pairs/dance. That said, due to a number of ladies I follow closely, yes there are more than just Julia, I will be tuning in to the entire team event to root my girls on. This likely will expand my interest and understanding as well. So the team event may and likely will help spread interest in more disciplines of FS to others I assume that are like me. Just wanted to point out what I consider a positive aspect to the team event. I've seen it cast in both good and bad light.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    That should be taken with a grain of salt as it was at Cup of Russia, where Lipnitskaia received huge PCS and wasn't called out for her flutz. A clean Sotnikova at CoR could have scored 73-74 points with home ice PCS. At Euros where both skated clean (a much more suitable gauge) Sotnikova placed ahead of her.
    Haha no way Sotnikova was getting a 73-74 in the short program with only a triple toe-triple toe. That is what she might get at her own Nationals, but nowhere else. That is unless the judges are now going to give Kim or Asada an 80 in the short. If she skated great and were lucky she might have matched her 70ish at Europeans, as Euroflation is as much or probably more than home ice inflation.

    Sotnikova and Lipnitskaya have only about the same scoring potential in the short when considering Julia's much harder jump combination, even if Adelina has come out ahead in their last three (only one of those Julia even skated that well in), and Julia is less likely to mess up so it makes sense in a sense. I expected Julia for the long and Adelina for the short, since Julia hasnt lose a LP to Adelina all season, but Adelina has been coming out ahead when they meet in the short as I said, but still not a big difference either way who does the short.

    The big question is whether I&K doing a program over B&S makes more sense. I really dont think so. I&K are heavily prone to mistakes, and even when they skate well probably wont be scored as highly as the perennialy overmarked B&S and their higher rep value. People say oh they were over 100 at Europeans even with a fall, but the scores at Europeans were ridiculous. B&S probably wouldnt have fallen (ok they fell twice this year which is unusual, but they are still much less likely to make a big mistake than I&K), and unlike I&K they probably would have been marked above C&L both in the FD and overall even with a fall. So Sotnikova should have been used in the SP over Julia, instead of I&K in the FD over B&S, or neither one used, but Sotnikova would be the inclusion to make more sense of the two.

  15. #75
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    I am hoping the surprise and bizarre inclusion of I&K in the Russian team event increases the chances of Weaver & Poje to do the FD now. Especialy since France almost certainly wont make the final, W&P now quite possibly would have been expected to finish in exactly the same spot as V&M would be expected to finish (2nd). Of course V&M could potentially be 1st, and W&P could still be lower than 2nd, but I now have a feeling they are more likely to be used to give V&M more a break for the individual and the avoid the possability of the judges seeing them lose 2 more programs in a row to D&W.

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