An interesting article

This was on the cover page of Times Union Sports section (Albany NY main paper):

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStorie...55&category=SPORTS&BCCode=&newsdate=2/19/2004

The article main feature is the lack of guys in figure skating in the northeast region.

I read with interest the latest discussion in the Worlds thread on how general public in NA views figure skating. Not to defend Youarewhipped (and I certainly don't agree with most of the comments/statements she made) - but the article does point out that the general public sees FS as a "girly" sport. It is very sad, in Europe it is not viewed that way.

The link doesn't show it, but fondly enough, Johnny Weir photo was a part of the article (in addition to this local guy Morrow, and Sinek and Handra - who coach in the area).

Again, I am just a messenger, so don't assume I feel the same way or that I support youarewipped comments that Johnny should change his style.

Cheers, Yana

Hockey is more homoerotic sport than figure skating. I mean, c'mon. You got a bunch of guys "bangin'" each other on the walls, pouncing on each other when they score a goal, and it's also one of those sports were they slap each other on the ass after some winning game *cough*baseball, football, basketball*cough* Do you see that kind of homoerotic action in male figure skating? No you don't. And when a guy does team up with someone in figure skating, it's ALWAYS a lady.

And plus the guy gets to touch the lady in a porny way

By the way, this post was not meant to bash gay people. It's just me saying most of the "guyish, masculinish" sports like hockey are kinda homoerotic. SO DON'T DISS A GUY WHO FIGURE SKATES!!!!!!!

Lotta, are you joking or serious?

Aside from what you may have seen in a few porn videos, I don't think that male/male sex is typically so rough and nasty as what you describe.

I think that 'eroticism' is more about attraction and less about the actual act. Think less dogs and more birds. Male Pidgeons puff themselves up really big and strutt thier stuff back and forth in front of the gal pidgeon in the most obvious way.

When people call skating 'homoerotic', I think that they are talking about a guy all dressed up in fancy sparkly clothes strutting around in front of an audience making himself look pretty by line/stretch and showing off his prowess with big athletic moves.

Actually, I think the 'homo' part only comes in because unlike birds, humans usually rely on the female to adorn herself and strutt her stuff to snag a guy. A guy prancing around in sparkly colorful tight clothes pointing his toes and flipping his wrists to music is seen as wanting to attract another guy. Otherwise, they'd be weight lifters or driving fast cars or something.

I'm not saying I think this, I'm just trying to understand why people call skating 'homoerotic'. Somehow, bashing someone's front teeth out and/or spitting tobacco on the playing field doesn't seem to me to be most people's idea of sexy.

figureskating homoerotic?

what about sports like...wrestling?

seriously, as a gay man, with other issues that we have to face in today's world, i would think that people would have more to focus on than johnny weir's style.

if weir is gay, more power to him. the reason why most gays i know are out, proud, and "flaming" is because of the repression and oppression we have faced since the beginning of our homophobic society. in the 70's, it was well documented that many gays decided to "take back" the stereotypes, such as being "effeminate" and act that way.

if weir's skating style is effeminate, then let him skate that way. i always thought that figure skating wasn't about the jumps, or what the crowd thought, but the skater. it's his style. let him skate to it.
it's about him, not you, and certainly, not about homosexuals.

"It is very sad, in Europe it is not viewed that way."

Not so sure.

I went to the past 2 Belgian Nats.

Both times, Kevin was the sole male senior. There were about 18 lady's seniors. 2 male juniors. Again, about 18 lady's juniors. No pairs or dancers at any level.

Certainly Euros is all about France and Russia. I think that they may be the only 2 countries to send skaters in all 4 disciplines.

I'm not sure that Russia represnt Europe, and I'm not sure that we understand how the typical Russian off the street views male skaters.

Wahtever the reason, I think that Europe is suffering a sort of 'braindrain' of skaters like the US.

At least it is my observation that in Europe figure skating is not viewed as a girly sport. I go to Europe every year (not Eastern Europe, but UK and France), most of my friends (male and female) are European (both east and west) and I have never heard anybody make a statement such as the one presented in the aftermentioned article.

It's no secret that US is the most homophobic country amongst western society with very rigid sex roles. It makes sense why the general public views FS like that.

Cheers, Yana

In my experience, in Canada, figure skating is also not viewed as "girly" as in the U.S. It's not up there with the more "masculine" sports (like the King of Canadian Sports hockey!!!), but in Canada, figure skating has a bit more respect and is a fairly popular sport. It makes the front pages and sports casts on the news. Our country (men included!!) gets up in arms if they think one of their skaters "wuz robbed". It's not a once-in-every-four-years thing or once-every-time-Michelle-Kwan-wins type thing. I also think there is more "respect" if you will for male skaters in Canada because for the longest time men have been Canadians strength (ie. Orser, Browning, Stojko) and pairs are also some of our stronger elements (Brasseur and Eisler, Sale and Pelletier), which of course have men (duh!!). Here the men aren't viewed as necessarily "gay", just as men who weren't good enough to play hockey!!!

I think the U.S.'s traditional strength in women's (which far outweigh other disciplines including the mens, regardless of Scott Hamilton or Brian Boitano) so the image for the general public is of a "girl's" sport.

berthes ghost said:

I'm not sure that Russia represnt Europe, and I'm not sure that we understand how the typical Russian off the street views male skaters.

Wahtever the reason, I think that Europe is suffering a sort of 'braindrain' of skaters like the US. [/B]

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I agree that Russia is not representetive of Europe. However, I would claim that on average Russians do NOT equate skating with homosexuality. Which is good, as in Russia homophobia is quite scary. As for reasons for Russia's 'braindrain' of skaters -- it's pretty well documented. (1) Fewer kids want to go into skating since they now live in a world with a lot more opportunities than in the old days, and (2) Funding of the whole system of selecting young talented kids and training them from an early age has been decimated.

Sorry I didn't read the article. Did it say 'girly' or 'gay'? There is a difference, and I agree not much in the United States. The uniforms of all the team sports are not at all girly neither are the single sports (golf, tennis0 even swimming, diving, gymnastics are simple albeit skin showing attire. But in figure skating one does find the wearing of sequins, etc., somewhat girly.

Signs of being 'gay' are tough on young boys growing up. Even those who are gay will avoid anything that would make them look gay. That's part of it.

Others just don't perceive figure skating as a sport. They see it as an entertainment and, well, that's not the way they want to entertain.

just my thoughts.

Joe

Toller Cranston is gay and very much respected here in Canada for his great contributions to Canadian figure skating as well as to figure skating on the whole. He changed men's figure skating forever with his interpretive programs and flair for costumes.

Unfortunately, even here in Canada we are experiencing a shortage of male skaters especially in the dance discipline and this is due to the "image" of the male figure skater.

We have plenty of hockey players of course!!!! No one seems to give that a second thought. It's considered more macho here to be a hockey player than a figure skater. Although, many hockey players learn to skate properly through figure skating programs. Even our wonderful Karen Magnussen has taught hockey players to skate!!! They teach it under the guise of "power skating." Naturally, they won't admit they are being taught by figure skaters! Even Kurt Browning started out as a Hockey player!

Anyway, back to the main thought - it is a shame that figure skating is looked down upon and that the male populace feels this way about the sport. We need more skaters like Elvis to show that there is also atheleticism involved in skating.

Ladskater said:

Anyway, back to the main thought - it is a shame that figure skating is looked down upon and that the male populace feels this way about the sport. We need more skaters like Elvis to show that there is also atheleticism involved in skating.

Click to expand...

We've discussed this issue at least several times, but there are many new posters, and it's interesting to hear their points of view.

I can only speak from a U.S. perspective, of course; and anything I say is merely a generalization from my own observations. It seems to me that in U.S. culture, men are terrified of being THOUGHT OF as gay. Figure skating = costumes = dance = effeminite = gay. Same goes for any of the performing arts (music, theater, dance).

The paranoia is not restricted to men. I knew a Mom whose 10 year old son was interested in singing. He was also interested in high academic achievement AND sports. She was terrified about and actively discouraging his interest in music because, as she actually told me, she was afraid it would lead to his becoming gay. I am NOT kidding! I told her that I had taught many, many male students and a very small percentage were gay, that one thing had nothing to do with the other blah blah blah. This was a college-educated, seemingly normal woman--I still cannot believe she actually said that to me.

As I've mentioned previously, Mr. RG is from Israel, grew up loving soccer and basketball, was in the Air Force--and he LOVES to watch figure skating! The thing is, it would never even OCCUR to him that his love of the sport compromises or detracts from his masculinity. I have found Israelis to be closer to Europeans than Americans in their artistic sensibilities, so I don't find his attitude unique. It does boil down to cultural sensibilities and perceptions. It's such a shame that a fear of being thought of as "gay" leads a lot of men to participate in sports that they may not even enjoy--and we've all read articles about many Dads pushing their sons into these sports to satisfy heaven knows what kind of shortcomings they themselves may have.

I repeat, this is a generalization and in no way reflective of ALL U.S. citizens. But the issue of perception and the stranglehold it has on our culture cannot be denied.

RealtorGal:

Yes, this is certainly a problem with most of the arts today. Years ago people never really paid much attention to this aspect of figure skating. At least, I don't remember as much concern about it. Perhaps, people are more open about these things now.

Anyway, I think also here in Canada its also likely a case of expense. Figure skating is an expensive sport - especially competitive skating. With all our tax increases and jobs disappearing it's hard for people to make ends meet - let alone finance their children in skating.

I sure am glad I was able to skate. What joy I would have missed!!!!

Just for the record, other than Rudy Galindo, I don't know of any male performer whose skating style would give any indication of his sexual preference. It's in the interviews that take place off the ice after the performance where certain speach patterns and mannerisms make themselves a bit obvious. Although on his website, Johnny Weir might have dozens of pictures of himself with his arms around gorgeous babes, something tells me that you're not likely to ever see any of those babes in the kiss 'n cry area with him any time soon.

But then, what do I know? Men's figure skating is something I only catch occasional glimpses of while waiting for the women folk to come one (which is always in the 2nd hour on ABC).