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Thread: Skaters with a shot at gold and a medal in each event

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I have no idea why people see C&L as having a real medal shot. They needed I&K to bomb the FS basically to barely win Europeans, and were dead last including a distant last in PCS at the Grand Prix final. At this point I would give all of B&S, P&B, W&P, and I&K (for sure, especialy in Russia) stronger medal chances than them, which equates to theirs being virtually nothing. I also think people are making a mistake in writing W&P off. If they can hit all their levels (a big if with them) they definitely have a shot.
    I think C&L and W&P both have a slight chance, but not much. Same with I&K. It'll really be between B&S and P&B. I think both of these teams may have to fall, or at least have mistakes on the twizzles, to lose 3rd/4th place (in whatever order).. although that could very well happen, given that Fabian has fallen a few times before, and Dmitri fell already this season.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I actually think B&S going back to their last years FD is good news for the other contenders and helps a team like W&P to have more shot at the bronze. As rubbish as their FD was this year, the judges were giving it good scores, and this is too late to make a change like this. I wouldnt be surprised if we dont see them skate well at the Games, and it being hard for the judges to hold them up this time.

    P&B are the real favorites for the bronze at this point, not B&S. They have beaten B&S handily both times they met this season. Unless P&B run into problems I think they will get the bronze, even in Russia, but they are prone to mistakes and I wouldnt be at all surprised if they make them; and if they do I could see W&P capatilizing just as easily as a struggling B&S. W&P just need to improve their OD where they have lost ground all year, and make sure they hit their levels in both programs as that is where they are inconsistent. They will get PCS comparable to B&S and P&B and they are capable of very high GOE points. If they skate closer together and with more speed the PCS in their OD which hasnt been stacking up as well as the PCS in their FD this year, will improve.
    You don't hear too often teams going back to their old programs for dance. What will be the reaction from the judges? I am shocked -they should have been able to do something wih 4 seasons - the concept was interesting but they didn't pull it together. This soundsl ike panic and if I and K could get it ttogethter they could over take B and S instead P an B will go between them and probably win bronze or maybe thejudges will allow W and P a bronze if V and M don't win gold? I know not very logical.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I actually think B&S going back to their last years FD is good news for the other contenders and helps a team like W&P to have more shot at the bronze. As rubbish as their FD was this year, the judges were giving it good scores, and this is too late to make a change like this. I wouldnt be surprised if we dont see them skate well at the Games, and it being hard for the judges to hold them up this time.

    P&B are the real favorites for the bronze at this point, not B&S. They have beaten B&S handily both times they met this season. Unless P&B run into problems I think they will get the bronze, even in Russia, but they are prone to mistakes and I wouldnt be at all surprised if they make them; and if they do I could see W&P capatilizing just as easily as a struggling B&S. W&P just need to improve their OD where they have lost ground all year, and make sure they hit their levels in both programs as that is where they are inconsistent. They will get PCS comparable to B&S and P&B and they are capable of very high GOE points. If they skate closer together and with more speed the PCS in their OD which hasnt been stacking up as well as the PCS in their FD this year, will improve.
    The only time W&P have outscored B&S was in the FD at the GPF when B&S fell, and even then it was essentially tied. Otherwise B&S have easily outscored W&P. With a fall at COR, B/S still got higher PCS than W/P.

  4. #34
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    B&S as Olympic medalists is just wrong. You know the fix has to be in for that to happen.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    She actually has 4th best odds to win OGM. I don't see it though, even if she skates her best I think she scores in 190s. Will that be good enough to medal? Probably not, but I suppose I should have put her with Gold and Wagner, because they won't break 200 either. Murakami probably has a chance at Bronze, like they do, if she skates clean and others make mistakes.
    Gold can score 70+ with a clean SP. She did a 69+ with her Three Preludes and I'm pretty sure her new SP would pull a higher PCS total than the old one if skated cleanly.

    She should have no issues scoring 200+ with two hit programs, and I don't see Murakami beating a clean Gracie Gold. Her skating is too sloppy and she is a weaker jumper and spinner, and the quality of her skating is not much superior, if at all (when you factor in her posture and poorer extension, among other things)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    No way that a truly clean Asada would finish behind Julia with the jumps she is planning. People are debating whether a clean Asada would even win over a clean Kim since her planned base value is like 10 points higher. However Asada is not even capable of skating her current planned program cleanly. So if what you meant is if Julia skates cleanly and Mao skates as cleanly as she can possibly do (which is probably equal to her best performance this season so far, whichever you thought that was, maybe NHK), then yes Julia might come out ahead in Russia.

    A clean Sotnikova (which there is a very small chance of happening) might come out ahead of both for the silver in that case though. The protocals show she would have won Europeans over Julia had she done a clean long with the triple lutz-triple loop she had planned, and she won Nationals over Julia with both being only one mistake from a perfect competition (Julia in the short, Adelina in the long). The Europeans is more crucial though as some suggest Russian Nationals is biased to Sotnikova, but even Europeans indicated Adelina having the edge had she gone clean.
    Sotnikova does have an edge if she goes clean, because she can rack up more +GOE on the jumps, still has strong spins, and tends to have an edge in PCS. Julia is getting +GOE for elements (like her DA) that really shouldn't even be getting GOE from the judges (Negative GOE, if any).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabel_O'Reilly View Post
    I just found a neat video on Youtube:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMuf1MAPHko

    What does everyone think of each 3Lutz-3Toe?
    Yuna's is bigger. Technique on the second jump not as good. She tends to UR quite a bit these days (will be interesting to see if they call her on it in Sochi, both of hers at KOR Nationals were < ) because she takes off way too early on the toe loop, causing it to require more rotation than it should need to get around.

    Julia has a Flutz 65% of the time, but it's not severe. Her jumps are a lot more controlled than Yuna Kim's.

    If I had to pick, I'd pick Lipnitskaya's. Yuna's combo has two redeeming aspects: Size and the Take-Off Edge on the Lutz.

    However, Lipnitskaya's jumps are incredible because of the amount of control she has on her landings, the fact that she lands going straight backwards (not even a chance to question her rotation), and the position she can get on her landings - and she HOLDS those landing positions a lot better than Kim. Additionally, her technique on the back half of her combination is textbook, which is why she can throw a toe loop onto almost anything (or add it back in later, easily, if she misses it early on like at Europeans).

    From a GOE standpoint, Yuna's would score higher as long as the judge didn't spot a UR when it happens because the take-off issues on her 3T back end aren't anything most judges would penalize as long as the jump was clean.

    Sotnikova is a better overall jump than both of them, and has all triples. She has Yuna's size and Lipnitskaya's rotation and landing finesse.

  8. #38
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    Kim skates like a woman; Julia skates like a teenager. Kim has power and the right edge; mind you Julia has a more difficult entry and maybe thejudges should mark down Kim or woheover for the second triple. But there is no question Kim will win gold and julia is lucky if she wins a bronze. I think the odds are favouring Kostner for bronze - she usually ahs one good skate so olympics is her chance to reign. Still I Mao is ahuge question; I honestly don't see it happening though she has too many problems with her jumps and at this point it would be a bit of luck. I know she tried but with her problems with the lutz, triple axel, adding loops it would be a bit of one shot wonder if she corrected it all. Yes, a lot of skaters or most have achilles heal problems - one or two jumps but mao has been trying to fix them for years and has not been consistently clean with the big jumps lutz or axel or adding loops. At this point she is best to move on as it seems doubtful she will become consistent at this point.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nater View Post
    Yuna's is bigger. Technique on the second jump not as good. She tends to UR quite a bit these days (will be interesting to see if they call her on it in Sochi, both of hers at KOR Nationals were < ) because she takes off way too early on the toe loop, causing it to require more rotation than it should need to get around.

    Julia has a Flutz 65% of the time, but it's not severe. Her jumps are a lot more controlled than Yuna Kim's.

    If I had to pick, I'd pick Lipnitskaya's. Yuna's combo has two redeeming aspects: Size and the Take-Off Edge on the Lutz.

    However, Lipnitskaya's jumps are incredible because of the amount of control she has on her landings, the fact that she lands going straight backwards (not even a chance to question her rotation), and the position she can get on her landings - and she HOLDS those landing positions a lot better than Kim. Additionally, her technique on the back half of her combination is textbook, which is why she can throw a toe loop onto almost anything (or add it back in later, easily, if she misses it early on like at Europeans).

    From a GOE standpoint, Yuna's would score higher as long as the judge didn't spot a UR when it happens because the take-off issues on her 3T back end aren't anything most judges would penalize as long as the jump was clean.

    Sotnikova is a better overall jump than both of them, and has all triples. She has Yuna's size and Lipnitskaya's rotation and landing finesse.
    I appreciate your analysis, critiquing each one fairly, instead of simply saying one is better. I get tired of people just saying straight out that one skater is better than one another. There is so much to marvel at with each skater and while some of it you can straight out compare objectively, much more of skating is ultimately subjective to each person watching it. That's why I never say Julia is the the best skater or say that any other skater is not as good because, while objectively I know that's not true, subjectively she will always be the best to me. Primarily because intellectually the technical arsenal she has is extraordinary and the interpretation or emotional response she draws from me is incredible.

    A competition should be judged solely on what the skater achieves on that skate alone, not what they have done before. It is the judges job to take the program and reduce it to mere numbers, but of course there is little bit of room for their personal opinion in GOE and in program components. Having the numbers of judges they do from all different countries results in a fair range of numbers for each skater, I would hope.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nater View Post
    Sotnikova is a better overall jump than both of them, and has all triples. She has Yuna's size and Lipnitskaya's rotation and landing finesse.
    Although Adelina is my very favorite skater, I have to say that I disagree that her landing finesse is better than Yuna's. She does jump well in her short and the first half of her long, but when she gets tired late in her LP she has a wide swinging free leg and it makes the landing shaky.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nater View Post
    Yuna's is bigger. Technique on the second jump not as good. She tends to UR quite a bit these days (will be interesting to see if they call her on it in Sochi, both of hers at KOR Nationals were < ) because she takes off way too early on the toe loop, causing it to require more rotation than it should need to get around.

    Julia has a Flutz 65% of the time, but it's not severe. Her jumps are a lot more controlled than Yuna Kim's.

    If I had to pick, I'd pick Lipnitskaya's. Yuna's combo has two redeeming aspects: Size and the Take-Off Edge on the Lutz.

    However, Lipnitskaya's jumps are incredible because of the amount of control she has on her landings, the fact that she lands going straight backwards (not even a chance to question her rotation), and the position she can get on her landings - and she HOLDS those landing positions a lot better than Kim. Additionally, her technique on the back half of her combination is textbook, which is why she can throw a toe loop onto almost anything (or add it back in later, easily, if she misses it early on like at Europeans).

    From a GOE standpoint, Yuna's would score higher as long as the judge didn't spot a UR when it happens because the take-off issues on her 3T back end aren't anything most judges would penalize as long as the jump was clean.

    Sotnikova is a better overall jump than both of them, and has all triples. She has Yuna's size and Lipnitskaya's rotation and landing finesse.
    You're blind. Her 3-3 was enough to ratified. Julia's 3-3 is no where near YuNa's.

    YuNa's 3-3 got the delay in rotation, height and distance, straight back on landing, flow in the landing, effortless throughout.

    You said Gracie's 3-3 is better than YuNa's in every aspect and because of her 3 toe loop.

    Here are the images of Gracie's 3T on 3-3. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800.../822/0jhiz.jpg

    She takes off her triple toe with full blade not toe and also very pre-rotated. You see it? I don't know you are a skater or what but you're sooooooooo wrong.

    and also you said YuNa is not the technical phenom, at best, slightly above average. Actually, Ted barton who made current judging system said that Technically, Yuna is the greatest of all time.

    I have a question to you. If YuNa is not technical phenom among Ladies, Who do you think is the phenom? Asada, Lipnitskaya, Gold? Its really funny that a skater who's technically slightly above average is now reigning World & Olympic Champ with world record. Your opinion is so ridiculous and non-sense.
    Keep whining and complaining about YuNa's jumps until she retains her title at Sochi.
    you will be so upset if YuNa's 3-3 and other jumps get credit and highest GOE. :(

  12. #42
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    I think Abbott has a shot at silver and maybe at Gold if he skates clean.
    Gracie Gold could get a silver medal if she skates as she did at Nationals, and if Yu-na and Mao both falter, she could win gold.
    I don't think Fernandez has any shot at gold. His PCS are just not up to snuff and programs are weak.
    For Gold, I think the favorites are Chan, Hanyu, and Takahashi.

  13. #43
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    http://www.insidethegames.biz/blogs/...-2014For Robin Cousins, Olympic figure skating gold medalist in 1980, the personality he thinks will captivate the TV viewers will be the defending  women's champion Yuna Kim, of South Korea. "She is the grand dame of skating, a beautiful woman on and off the ice. She  has such a graceful, classic style."There are some other excellent skaters, notably the Russians, but they are mainly kids. This contest is a woman versus girls and I take the woman  to win and become the world's skating sweetheart."


    Interview with Katarina Witt, “Yuna has 100% chance to win gold” Katarina Witt interviewed on Yuna that unless something extraordinary has happened, Yuna will be the third gold medalist who wins two golds. She said Yuna is the perfect sakter, has the perfect body for skating and is artistic on ice. Ms. witt was sure Yuna will fly on ice and wished Yuna luck. *Source: All That Yuna http://yunakimfan.com/yunaverse/topi...tand-4/page/36

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki90 View Post
    http://www.insidethegames.biz/blogs/...-2014For Robin Cousins, Olympic figure skating gold medalist in 1980, the personality he thinks will captivate the TV viewers will be the defending  women's champion Yuna Kim, of South Korea. "She is the grand dame of skating, a beautiful woman on and off the ice. She  has such a graceful, classic style."There are some other excellent skaters, notably the Russians, but they are mainly kids. This contest is a woman versus girls and I take the woman  to win and become the world's skating sweetheart."


    Interview with Katarina Witt, “Yuna has 100% chance to win gold” Katarina Witt interviewed on Yuna that unless something extraordinary has happened, Yuna will be the third gold medalist who wins two golds. She said Yuna is the perfect sakter, has the perfect body for skating and is artistic on ice. Ms. witt was sure Yuna will fly on ice and wished Yuna luck. *Source: All That Yuna http://yunakimfan.com/yunaverse/topi...tand-4/page/36

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki90 View Post
    http://www.insidethegames.biz/blogs/...-2014For Robin Cousins, Olympic figure skating gold medalist in 1980, the personality he thinks will captivate the TV viewers will be the defending  women's champion Yuna Kim, of South Korea. "She is the grand dame of skating, a beautiful woman on and off the ice. She  has such a graceful, classic style."There are some other excellent skaters, notably the Russians, but they are mainly kids. This contest is a woman versus girls and I take the woman  to win and become the world's skating sweetheart."


    Interview with Katarina Witt, “Yuna has 100% chance to win gold” Katarina Witt interviewed on Yuna that unless something extraordinary has happened, Yuna will be the third gold medalist who wins two golds. She said Yuna is the perfect sakter, has the perfect body for skating and is artistic on ice. Ms. witt was sure Yuna will fly on ice and wished Yuna luck. *Source: All That Yuna http://yunakimfan.com/yunaverse/topi...tand-4/page/36
    Two legends talk about the one who is going to be the legend

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