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Thread: Plushenko declines being Flag Bearer for Russia

  1. #46
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    What Seniorita said.

  2. #47
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    I agree that skaters make statements that are poor judgment but I think in the case of slamming another skater to try to get to the Olympics isn't really deserving of bearing the flag. It would be like if Chantelle Kerry won her campaign against Brooklee Han, and somehow ended up being Australia's flagbearer. I think sportsmanship is a huge part of Olympic ideals and athletes who breach that shouldn't be representing other athletes, no matter how extensive their athletic success has been.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I agree that skaters make statements that are poor judgment but I think in the case of slamming another skater to try to get to the Olympics isn't really deserving of bearing the flag. It would be like if Chantelle Kerry won her campaign against Brooklee Han, and somehow ended up being Australia's flagbearer. I think sportsmanship is a huge part of Olympic ideals and athletes who breach that shouldn't be representing other athletes, no matter how extensive their athletic success has been.
    Yes, that's my point. You think. It's a subjective opinion.

    Now, I don't think he "slammed" Kovtun at all, merely stated the situation as it was. But, that is neither here nor there - since, again, that is merely my opinion. Which is my precise point. Subjective.

  4. #49
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    Indeed. But would you have liked it if Kovtun listed off the slew of jumps Plushenko missed in in his freeskate at Nationals, or pointed out that he has not chosen to skate any international competitions this year, or skated a complete competition internationally since 2012, that he willfully avoided Europeans so he wouldn't have to compete against Kovtun, and he hasn't had a clean SP without a disastrous FS or a clean FS without a disastrous SP this year.

    I think pointing out that a skater failed to get more than 1 placement and dwelling on a past result is a pretty low blow. Saying somebody who JUST beat you shouldn't go to the Olympics, is another low blow, particularly when you decide not to fight for your spot, and think it should be yours anyways (i.e. saying you'll do the team event). Also low of him to, when asked and thinking both he and Kovtun could compete, decided to take the easy street to a medal and let Kovtun fend for himself in the individual event, when he has 3 medals.

    I don't deny that he's usually a good representative of Russia in general, but the way he went about getting onto the Olympic team, disparaging Kovtun, and skipping Euros, and his sheer audacity to dismiss the results of Russian nationals and name himself to the team anyways was pretty foul.

  5. #50
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    CSG, since I don't follow Kovtun, I have no idea what he has or hasn't said. Whatever it may be, I certainly wouldn't wish him ill in the future because of it or think that it disqualified him from becoming a flag bearer in a coming Olympics.

    I disagree with you re Plushy. But it doesn't matter. Even had I agreed with you, it wouldn't have mattered. That is my point. My opinion doesn't matter - because it is an opinion - subjective. It should not be the basis for deciding these things.

    I dread to think what you must think of Muhammed Ali.... No, don't tell me!

  6. #51
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    Welcome to subjectivity

    Figure skating is a very subjective sport...and most decisions involve subjective criteria...

    I think Plushy is great but he says things that most wouldn't and/or shouldn't...however I also think Kovtun can be amazing but his consistency is an issue. He's young and will get more chances. This is Plushy's last chance or last gasp depending on how you see it.

    It's really up to each Olympic committee how they want to handle who bear's the flag, however I think letting someone else have the limelight is the right thing to do.

  7. #52
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    If you so insist on what Plushenko has said to judge him as a good sportman, and this is not Miss Universe contest by the way so that Plushenko can give the interview that pleases and wish for World peace, I would propose you to read the whole Russia media then, not just nip-ticking Plushenko's interviews. Tarasova spreads like an octupus her claws now to send Kovtun to individual, she has Moscow Skating club to promote and their job there, her TV shows with Averbuck and she is a politician too, it is a big matter to send Kovtun from her club and a lot of money I suppose, you have no idea what certain russian press has been pushing against Plushenko right now, even Yagudin has to have an opinion here, if Plushy wont win the Gold everywhere, even in Women Combo skiing I guess, they will literally haunt him down after, you have to be as crazy as Plushenko right now and that dedicated to skate and prove against this.
    Last edited by seniorita; 01-29-2014 at 05:33 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    but I think in the case of slamming another skater to try to get to the Olympics isn't really deserving of bearing the flag
    "Slamming"?? So, when kovtun first say something, this is only "easily" say something. When plushenko answer to him, this is slammering. Ok, that's your opinion.
    Anyway I repeat: you don't know what is happening in Russia and what Tarassova is doing. Senorita reported some details!! To be clear: Tarassova in interviews says plushenko is the best choice, than her boys (kovtun, yagudin,...) attack plushenko (pease read what Yagudin says these days about plshenko. I'm so surprised he's this kind of person and he openly said he's following Tarassova).
    Behind kovtun's words there is something else. It's necessary to understand it.
    Plushenko is obliged to defend his right to go to Oly and, I repeat, he's a gentlemen to answer only with these words!! In Russia he's under attack.

    If plushenko for these words doesn't deserve to be a flag bearer, I don't know who deserves it. You want the perfect model of olympic spirit! But this saint really exist? You are judjing persons. Maybe he's better judge all the sacrifices an athlete did since he was a little boy to became a legend.
    Personally I don't want judge anyone, but only judge performances on ice

  9. #54
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    Skaters can't win. When they are polite we complain that they are boring and PC. When they speak up for themselves, they are bad sports. Oh well, it won't be long now.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris.b View Post
    Don't you really know what is happening outside Canada, in Russia? As Senorita said, it was Kovtun first criticize Plushenko after Russian National. It is part of Tarassova's campaign against Plushenko to send Kovtun to Sochi. And also Yagudin takes part to it blaming Plushenko every time he talks or writes. So, Plushenko is only a gentlemen don't answer in a worse way. And what he said? Only that for Oly is necessary an expert skater. What else said? I don't understand, sorry. He has so many pressure. Haters in Russia, out of Russia, surgery, age, etc.. Please he's a great athlete and deserve at least to be informed before criticize him.

    Also Chan, before Vancouver had a big mouth blaming Plushenko and Joubert, don't you remember? Now he's diplomatic. But I never mind it.

    Anyway, come back to the topic, i think organisation's schedule is not good! I'm so sorry about it!!
    Yes. But the haters like CSG and bigdeal have selective memories...

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris.b View Post
    "Slamming"?? So, when kovtun first say something, this is only "easily" say something. When plushenko answer to him, this is slammering. Ok, that's your opinion.
    Anyway I repeat: you don't know what is happening in Russia and what Tarassova is doing. Senorita reported some details!! To be clear: Tarassova in interviews says plushenko is the best choice, than her boys (kovtun, yagudin,...) attack plushenko (pease read what Yagudin says these days about plshenko. I'm so surprised he's this kind of person and he openly said he's following Tarassova).
    Behind kovtun's words there is something else. It's necessary to understand it.
    Plushenko is obliged to defend his right to go to Oly and, I repeat, he's a gentlemen to answer only with these words!! In Russia he's under attack.

    If plushenko for these words doesn't deserve to be a flag bearer, I don't know who deserves it. You want the perfect model of olympic spirit! But this saint really exist? You are judjing persons. Maybe he's better judge all the sacrifices an athlete did since he was a little boy to became a legend.
    Personally I don't want judge anyone, but only judge performances on ice
    Thank you. And if the Russians-who know the details, know the all articles, and interviews- like him and want him to flag bearer, I can't accept the hateful posts from Canada and from any other countries..http://translate.google.com/translat...e%2F14675.html

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris.b View Post
    "Slamming"?? So, when kovtun first say something, this is only "easily" say something. When plushenko answer to him, this is slammering. Ok, that's your opinion.
    Anyway I repeat: you don't know what is happening in Russia and what Tarassova is doing. Senorita reported some details!! To be clear: Tarassova in interviews says plushenko is the best choice, than her boys (kovtun, yagudin,...) attack plushenko (pease read what Yagudin says these days about plshenko. I'm so surprised he's this kind of person and he openly said he's following Tarassova).
    Behind kovtun's words there is something else. It's necessary to understand it.
    Plushenko is obliged to defend his right to go to Oly and, I repeat, he's a gentlemen to answer only with these words!! In Russia he's under attack.

    If plushenko for these words doesn't deserve to be a flag bearer, I don't know who deserves it. You want the perfect model of olympic spirit! But this saint really exist? You are judjing persons. Maybe he's better judge all the sacrifices an athlete did since he was a little boy to became a legend.
    Personally I don't want judge anyone, but only judge performances on ice
    Thank you for pointing out the facts--namely, that the real story is actually quite different from the narrative that certain posters here seem to be insisting on.

    Speaking of interviews by the actual people involved, I've been talking about this before, but I just want to mention again that a little while back, I tried to organized together some interviews (including ones from Plushenko, Tarasova, various FFKKR officials), from both before and after the Russian Nationals. I am a Plushenko fan so I am aware of the fact that I cannot avoid bias, but I felt there were some conclusions that were logically unavoidable. I posted a link to my summary over at Plushy's fan fest thread, but I'll put it again here, in case anyone's interested:

    summary, and lists of quotes

    One thing I want to mention here was a interview from Tarasova from October 5 (the first item on my first list in the summary above, and yes, that is the name and the date), in which she first ostensibly said that of course Plushenko should be the one to go to the Olympics as long as his health allows, there should be no doubt about it, etc., but at the very end, she turns and says, well, yes, maybe Kovtun can also participate in the team or the individual event, we'll find out if the rules allow it...

    Then, there suddenly appeared rumors to the effect that maybe "Plushenko only wants to do the team competition". (Though as far as I know, neither Plushy or anyone else on this team had ever said anything publicly about such an idea). Then immediately after the Russian Nationals LP, a Russian reporter goes up to him and asks, point-blank, "which event will you choose, team or individual?" This was the real context in which Plushenko made the statement that he would choose to do only the team competition. Though of course, things like "real contexts" didn't get reported in the press in this situation.

    As I've tried to explain a number of times before on this forum, it then (a few hours later) turned out that Plushenko had a wrong knowledge the "rule clarification" that the FFKKR obtained. He had no idea that it would involve the skater in the team competition to withdraw "due to injury", but simply thought that it was now possible to put different skaters in the team and the individual competitions. Frankly, I would consider it rather a huge coincidence if he somehow "just happened" to misunderstand the rules, but either way, as soon as he found out the truth, he immediately put the idea out of his mind. His position afterward have been, consistently, that it was the FFKKR's prerogative to choose who will represent Russia at Sochi, but if chosen, he will compete in both the team and the individual events.

    What do all of these facts say? (And yes, in my link above, there are actual publicly available quotes to back up my use of the word "facts".)

    If one wants to talk about "sportsmanship", I would have thought the kind of things that went on here were incomparably far beyond any kind of so-called "slamming", whether real or only in the minds of certain posters here. Frankly, I thought that during all of this, Plushenko has shown a great deal of restraint, if anything.

  13. #58
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    Restraint is certainly not what I would call it. He has been very outspoken. If he were to have exercised restraint he would not have said the things he said about Kovtun, particularly after losing to him. Restraint would have been not saying anything and then going to Euros to earn the spot rather than get a big asterisk any time people wonder how he made the Olympic team without ever beating Kovtun and not being the reigning Russian champion for a single Olympic spot.

    Although I should say that Kovtun's attitude and juvenile behaviour has made me less sympathetic towards him in this whole situation. Voronov, however, seems to be wayyy more gracious and classy than Plu and Kovtun, even though he has been doubly screwed over being denied Worlds last year and Olympic consideration this year.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Restraint is certainly not what I would call it. He has been very outspoken. If he were to have exercised restraint he would not have said the things he said about Kovtun, particularly after losing to him. Restraint would have been not saying anything and then going to Euros to earn the spot rather than get a big asterisk any time people wonder how he made the Olympic team without ever beating Kovtun and not being the reigning Russian champion for a single Olympic spot.

    Although I should say that Kovtun's attitude and juvenile behaviour has made me less sympathetic towards him in this whole situation. Voronov, however, seems to be wayyy more gracious and classy than Plu and Kovtun, even though he has been doubly screwed over being denied Worlds last year and Olympic consideration this year.
    You are so boring and you don't know anything.This is a disgusting game on the backstage. Tarasova speaks slimy lies to the public, but in private conversations with Piseev, Gorshkov, Lakernik make further pressure to put Kovtun in individual competition. So we don't know what will happen... And you like Voronov's reaction? Of course..because he is a smart guy, he knows the situation and deeply respects Plushenko...

    And what do you think about Chan? He attacked Plush again like before Vancouver..I am a very sober, kind person, I like everyone, but I had enough. Go Yuzu! Go Javier! Go Plushy! Go everyone! except Patrick!
    "Plushenko a Distraction, Not a Rival at Sochi Olympics - Chan" He will never learn to decently treats opponents...http://t.co/JcLOrf5kCw


    Evan:
    https://twitter.com/EvanLysacek/stat...22157094944768
    @NBCOlympics You can never count @EvgeniPlushenko out, but more importantly you MUST respect his incredible career. Happy he'll be in Sochi.

  15. #60
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    Patrick, Patrick, Patrick. Why didn't you just say, "Plushenko is a great champion, but I have to concentrate on my own performances and not be distracted by what the other skaters do."

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