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Thread: The Real Problem with Ashley and Mirai (A cranky rant)

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    The Real Problem with Ashley and Mirai (A cranky rant)

    It's not that the rules weren't clear--clearly, the USFSA can do what it wants when it wants and how it wants, and at some point or another the rules were announced to everyone.

    That is not the problem here.

    It's that neither of them are very good. (Well, by the incredibly high standards of Olympic-level figure skating, anyway. Of course, they're a lot better than 99% of those starting skating lessons will ever be.) But by skating star standards? Mediocre!

    You know why you never saw the committee skipping over someone before this to put someone off the podium on the team? Because the best people actually were on the podium. They didn't have a bad day and wind up in 4th place at nationals. It would be unheard of for Michelle, Sasha, Sarah, etc. to bomb like that.

    Not that Mirai is any better, as we've seen at 4 Continents. The US bronze medalist doing that poorly in a competition among lesser-known skaters? Never would've happened 10, 15 years ago.

    And I'm not letting Gracie off easily, either. The national champion doing so poorly on the Grand Prix circuit that she didn't even make the finale? Not likely back in the day!

    What you have now are a bunch of skaters who are inconsistent and unless a real star emerges, there will be a controversy every year as they compare each skater's good days and bad days, as everyone cries politics, racism or whatever.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    Not that Mirai is any better, as we've seen at 4 Continents. The US bronze medalist doing that poorly in a competition among lesser-known skaters? Never would've happened 10, 15 years ago.

    What you have now are a bunch of skaters who are inconsistent and unless a real star emerges, there will be a controversy every year as they compare each skater's good days and bad days, as everyone cries politics, racism or whatever.

    I agree a little bit with what you said but don't bash how Mirai did at 4CC when she was very ill and after she flew from Japan to the US and then to Taipei in a week. I'm sure if this was not her only opportunity to skate at an international championship this season she would have skipped it.

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    I think you're pretty harsh!

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    Ashley finished 4th and 5th at World Championships the last two seasons. Mirai was 4th at the last Olympics.

    But, don't let that stop you from hyperbole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Ashley finished 4th and 5th at World Championships the last two seasons. Mirai was 4th at the last Olympics.

    But, don't let that stop you from hyperbole.


    If you're offering a fantastically blunt assessment of the US ladies, then Polina shouldn't get off scot-free. She lacks even the barest semblance of senior international experience and lost to three baby Russians at the JGPF during her first international season. Her international PCS won't come within a twenty-mile radius what she received at Nationals, she doesn't stand out in any aspect of her skating, and if she doesn't lay down two perfectly clean programs, she'll get hammered by the judges. Up against the steel-nerved Julia and the incredibly powerful Adelina, not to mention the entire battalion of top ladies, even making the top 10 at the Olympics will be a real struggle for her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post


    If you're offering a fantastically blunt assessment of the US ladies, then Polina shouldn't get off scot-free. She lacks even the barest semblance of senior international experience and lost to three baby Russians at the JGPF during her first international season. Her international PCS won't come within a twenty-mile radius what she received at Nationals, she doesn't stand out in any aspect of her skating, and if she doesn't lay down two perfectly clean programs, she'll get hammered by the judges. Up against the steel-nerved Julia and the incredibly powerful Adelina, not to mention the entire battalion of top ladies, even making the top 10 at the Olympics will be a real struggle for her.
    Polina getting silver medal is the biggest proof that us ladies are not in a very good moment.

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    Kostner and Suzuki didn't make the GPF either. Nor did Murakami or Miyahara. Of course, Suzuki is the Japanese champion and Kostner won Euros bronze, while Murakami and Miyahara won 4CC gold and silver. But by Poodlepal's measure, like Wagner and Gold, they're all mediocrities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabel_O'Reilly View Post
    I agree a little bit with what you said but don't bash how Mirai did at 4CC when she was very ill and after she flew from Japan to the US and then to Taipei in a week. I'm sure if this was not her only opportunity to skate at an international championship this season she would have skipped it.
    Why do we always hear this same excuse when she skates so poorly. Just like last year at Nationals. If she is so ill, the smart thing would be to withdraw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Figure 8's View Post
    Why do we always hear this same excuse when she skates so poorly. Just like last year at Nationals. If she is so ill, the smart thing would be to withdraw.
    Maybe the smart thing but she would have lost her only chance to compete in a international championship this season. If she withdrew she would not have the chance to compete again unless something awful happens and she skates at the Olympics or Worlds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Figure 8's View Post
    Why do we always hear this same excuse when she skates so poorly. Just like last year at Nationals. If she is so ill, the smart thing would be to withdraw.
    Yes, Mirai is starting to remind me of Angela Nikodinov when it comes to one reason after another for not doing well at a competition. All the reasons may be true, but... If you are going to get to the top of the podium in figure skating, you have to put yourself in a position to win. I think this is one reason that Frank Carroll is having so much sucess. And has had for quite some time. You don't hear Carroll skaters flying around the world the week before the skate and various other logistical nightmares that make it difficult to skate. There's a certain amount (a lot) of discipline required to do well at the top of this sport, and skaters have to put themselves in the position to have the best chance of winning before they even set foot on competition ice. In some cases you have to wonder if this is happening.

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    This made me nod my head and giggle. Whenever my favorite does not get on the podium or is not picked for the team, I have to really try not to blame the system, the judges or the skater that did make it. Other elements may factor in but the responsibility is usually on my favorite skater for not skating better. -though I sigh and shed a tear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    It's not that the rules weren't clear--clearly, the USFSA can do what it wants when it wants and how it wants, and at some point or another the rules were announced to everyone.

    That is not the problem here.

    It's that neither of them are very good. (Well, by the incredibly high standards of Olympic-level figure skating, anyway. Of course, they're a lot better than 99% of those starting skating lessons will ever be.) But by skating star standards? Mediocre!

    You know why you never saw the committee skipping over someone before this to put someone off the podium on the team? Because the best people actually were on the podium. They didn't have a bad day and wind! up in 4th place at nationals. It would be unheard of for Michelle, Sasha, Sarah, etc. to bomb like that.

    Not that Mirai is any better, as we've seen at 4 Continents. The US bronze medalist doing that poorly in a competition among lesser-known skaters? Never would've happened 10, 15 years ago.

    And I'm not letting Gracie off easily, either. The national champion doing so poorly on the Grand Prix circuit that she didn't even make the finale? Not likely back in the day!

    What you have now are a bunch of skaters who are inconsistent and unless a real star emerges, there will be a controversy every year as they compare each skater's good days and bad days, as everyone cries politics, racism or whatever.


    THE BIG DIFFERENCE: COP!!!

    Under 6.0, a skater had to have reliable jumps. A fall (in some cases a step-out upon landing the jump) pretty well ruled out the gold medal in major events. Now, COP gives credit for a fallen jump. The skater gets a minus GOE and gets a 1 point deduction, if the revolutions were achieved. (In my opinion, a jump not landed should get no credit [edited] and minus points--as Ven states below.) The old 6.0 required a consistent jumper to win consistently. Sarah (in her prime, seldom fell), Michelle, hardly ever. And then there was Sasha, the most beautiful skater, but a less-consistent jumper who lost the 2006 Olympics for a fall. Nowadays the skater can garner points in many, many ways (outside of jumping), and if he falls, he/she still gets points. So we have beautiful skaters and less-successful jumpers and lots of winners with multiple falls (Chan, for one!). And many inconsistencies among some of the ladies (and men). It takes the steel and consistent jumps of a Yuna Kim & Exhorbitant PCS of Patrick Chan to win consistently these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Lee View Post
    THE BIG DIFFERENCE: COP!!!

    Under 6.0, a skater had to have reliable jumps. A fall (in some cases a step-out upon landing the jump) pretty well ruled out the gold medal in major events. Now, COP gives credit for a fallen jump. The skater doesn't get the -GOE and gets a 1 point deduction, if the revolutions were achieved! (In my opinion, a jump not landed should get no credit.) The old 6.0 required a consistent jumper to win consistently. Sarah (in her prime, seldom fell), Michelle, hardly ever. And then there was Sasha, the most beautiful skater, but a less-consistent jumper lost the 2006 Olympics for a fall. Nowadays the skater can garner points in many, many ways (outside of jumping), and if the fall they still get points. So we have beautiful skaters and less-successful jumpers and lots of winners with multiple falls (Chan, for one!).
    Fall should be -5 or -10 or something.

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