The Real Problem with Ashley and Mirai (A cranky rant)

anthologyz · Jan 26, 2014

regarding mirai: i would imagine failing to be selected for the team and all the controversy since then has taken its toll on her self-confidence, too. i would find it hard to concentrate on this b-comp if i'd had my dreams dashed and still be expected to bring it a few weeks later.

i would agree with those who stated that the USFSA is rather "old school." they were late to the game in terms of implementing CoP in the first place, and the training programs in japan and russia are just that much stronger right now. perhaps we'll see the pendulum swing again.

Barb · Jan 26, 2014

pangtongfan said:
The U.S girls will have a way better shot to medal at Worlds, especialy Wagner and Gold. Kim, Kostner, and maybe Asada not there, and now getting to face Julia and Adelina on neutral ice rather than Russian ice (although now having to face Suzuki, Murakami and possibly Asada on Japanese Ice, with likely equally home cooked scoring). Who knows, there could be 2 U.S medals at Worlds, maybe a silver and bronze, but highly unlikely there will be any U.S medal at the Games in ladies.

Mao definitly going to be at worlds 2014, she said it.

zamboni step · Jan 26, 2014

ForeverFish said:
FWIW, Gracie's beat Adelina at every event they've skated in together (except 2012 WTT).

And both Polina and Karen are young -- we've yet to see how they cope with puberty. Will they make relatively graceful physical transitions, like Mao and Yuna, or will they get hammered by drastic body changes like Mirai?

Gracie hasn't skated against Adelina this season, and I think everyone will agree Adelina is skating far better this season. I also think it's important to remember that Adelina's personal best even excluding 2014 Euros is far superior to Gracie's.

Amei · Jan 26, 2014

Jammers said:
It remains to be seen if these 13, 14 year old Russian girls will even be around in 3 years or simply flame out like most do.

But if those phenoms hit in an Olympic year and win OGM, I mean Tara lipinski wasn't exactly a post-pubescent woman, it could be said she was just a 2 year wonder kid in the sport. But no one says Tara was just a little girl that managed be in the right spot at the right time--- they say she's Olympic champion.

ForeverFish · Jan 26, 2014

zamboni step said:
Gracie hasn't skated against Adelina this season, and I think everyone will agree Adelina is skating far better this season. I also think it's important to remember that Adelina's personal best even excluding 2014 Euros is far superior to Gracie's.

The general consensus is that the scoring at Europeans is very inflated when compared to other major international competitions ... and one can't really compare scores across events anyway. We can only evaluate Gracie and Adelina side-by-side through the times they've directly competed against each other, and Gracie has come out on top all but once.

Plus, throwing out both Euros, Adelina's PB is 189.81 at the 2013 Trophee Eric Bompard, which is only marginally higher than Gracie's 188.03 at 2013 WTT.

drivingmissdaisy · Jan 26, 2014

chapis said:
Polina getting silver medal is the biggest proof that us ladies are not in a very good moment.

With her jumps, if the judges are going to give her Ashley-level PCS (and more than Mirai), Polina is always going to place highly.

pangtongfan · Jan 26, 2014

ForeverFish said:
The general consensus is that the scoring at Europeans is very inflated when compared to other major international competitions ... and one can't really compare scores across events anyway. We can only evaluate Gracie and Adelina side-by-side through the times they've directly competed against each other, and Gracie has come out on top all but once.

Plus, throwing out both Euros, Adelina's PB is 189.81 at the 2013 Trophee Eric Bompard, which is only marginally higher than Gracie's 188.03 at 2013 WTT.

Given that the Games are in Russia we shouldnt throw out Euros, as I fear the Russian advantage will be almost as much (maybe not quite, but almost, and probably a closer gap to Euros advantage than regular scoring) as the perennial European skaters European Championships score boost.

Right now I think Adelina is likely to place higher at the Games than Gold, but you are right that thus far Gold tends to come out ahead when the two meet.

pangtongfan · Jan 26, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
With her jumps, if the judges are going to give her Ashley-level PCS (and more than Mirai), Polina is always going to place highly.

The question is if she deserved PCS like that. I think absolutely not, even at Nationals, but oh well. Perhaps the USFSA has decided she is the one they want to push. I dont want to take away from her, as she did skate well, but before Nationals I would have thought her only hope to make the team was all of Nagasu, Cesario, Agnes, etc...to bomb, and the judges sure took to her more than I expected; and far more than international judges at the Senior level will at this point.

Figure 8's · Jan 26, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
With her jumps, if the judges are going to give her Ashley-level PCS (and more than Mirai), Polina is always going to place highly.

I agree. The Judges seem to reward the skaters who can do the jumps, more than anything else. The thing is, if a skater has a good Technical foundation the rest comes more easily. Polina can do the jumps and that is half the battle.

jenaj · Jan 26, 2014

Figure 8's said:
I agree. The Judges seem to reward the skaters who can do the jumps, more than anything else. The thing is, if a skater has a good Technical foundation the rest comes more easily. Polina can do the jumps and that is half the battle.

The USFSA judges, yes. But it doesn't always work out. Remember Kimmie Meissner?

Zamboni · Jan 27, 2014

I think Gracie has a great deal of potential. Last year was her first year at the senior level, right? I think she has a promising future.

Even Michelle didn't win her first nationals until her 3rd try. Of course 1994 had no actual winner, so . . .

RobinA · Jan 27, 2014

Figure 8's said:
Why do we always hear this same excuse when she skates so poorly. Just like last year at Nationals. If she is so ill, the smart thing would be to withdraw.

Yes, Mirai is starting to remind me of Angela Nikodinov when it comes to one reason after another for not doing well at a competition. All the reasons may be true, but... If you are going to get to the top of the podium in figure skating, you have to put yourself in a position to win. I think this is one reason that Frank Carroll is having so much sucess. And has had for quite some time. You don't hear Carroll skaters flying around the world the week before the skate and various other logistical nightmares that make it difficult to skate. There's a certain amount (a lot) of discipline required to do well at the top of this sport, and skaters have to put themselves in the position to have the best chance of winning before they even set foot on competition ice. In some cases you have to wonder if this is happening.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 27, 2014

chapis said:
Polina getting silver medal is the biggest proof that us ladies are not in a very good moment.

I thoroughly disagree. Other than the fall in the FS, she posted excellent technical content including 3Z+3T in both programs. Still not soup yet, but you look at skaters like Michelle Kwan when she broke out on the scene and went to her first Worlds and I'd personally put Polina up there with that in terms of technical ability and potential.

drivingmissdaisy · Jan 27, 2014

jenaj said:
The USFSA judges, yes. But it doesn't always work out. Remember Kimmie Meissner?

Polina jumps more like Gracie so she is more likely to keep her jumps, although nothing is guaranteed. Kimmie tended not to jump "up" as much so when she got hips her spinny technique made it difficult.

jenaj · Jan 27, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
Polina jumps more like Gracie so she is more likely to keep her jumps, although nothing is guaranteed. Kimmie tended not to jump "up" as much so when she got hips her spinny technique made it difficult.

No one said she jumped like Polina. The point is, she was once the hope of USFSA because she could jump. Eventually, her flawed technique came to light. But when she first came up, it looked like she had triple-triples and a triple axel.

desertskates · Jan 27, 2014

Here's a scenario we could hope for, but is probably just pure fantasy. Ashley conjures up some magic and pulls out the bronze at the Olys. Then withdrawals from worlds out of exhaustion (or whatever) and Mirai gets a chance to skate there in a comfortable setting in her new (if not temporary) home country.

drivingmissdaisy · Jan 27, 2014

desertskates said:
Here's a scenario we could hope for, but is probably just pure fantasy. Ashley conjures up some magic and pulls out the bronze at the Olys. Then withdrawals from worlds out of exhaustion (or whatever) and Mirai gets a chance to skate there in a comfortable setting in her new (if not temporary) home country.

I don't hope for that. Ashley and Gracie at their very best would be the only shot of the US keeping 3 Worlds spots.

RobinA · Jan 27, 2014

Figure 8's said:
I agree. The Judges seem to reward the skaters who can do the jumps, more than anything else. The thing is, if a skater has a good Technical foundation the rest comes more easily. Polina can do the jumps and that is half the battle.

At Nationals it wasn't just about the jumps. While agree that Polina is still Jrish, at Nationals there were points during Mirai's LP when I couldn't figure out what she was doing because she was looking like she was going to stop skating. I couldn't figure out if she was injured or had a boot problem. She certainly wasn't doing any choreography. Stuff like that does not lead to high PCS.

chuckm · Jan 27, 2014

Apparently Mirai was taking 'rest' stops when she felt fatigued, and the music was cut in a way that allowed her to do it. Unfortunately, she wound up going overtime and got a time deduction.

desertskates · Jan 27, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
I don't hope for that. Ashley and Gracie at their very best would be the only shot of the US keeping 3 Worlds spots.

That's a very good point.

The Real Problem with Ashley and Mirai (A cranky rant)

anthologyz

Barb

zamboni step

Amei

ForeverFish

drivingmissdaisy

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

Figure 8's

jenaj

Zamboni

RobinA

CanadianSkaterGuy

drivingmissdaisy

jenaj

desertskates

drivingmissdaisy

RobinA

chuckm

desertskates

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