The Real Problem with Ashley and Mirai (A cranky rant) | Page 2 | Golden Skate

The Real Problem with Ashley and Mirai (A cranky rant)

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I totally agree with your #5 Poodlepal. But that's not the skater's fault so much as the coach and choreographer's fault. I'm sure you've cruised through the threads on music. It's like they use the same music over and over and over.....and over again. Sometimes different arrangements but the same themes. Gracie's short program music was horrible. Talk about a painful ear worm and it didn't do anything for her - so I'm glad she changed it.

You might add another bullet point - the fact that American skaters change coaches like they change their underwear. There are so few that are still with the coach they started out with. Different styles, different temperaments, different expectations, no consistency. I watched the Junior Girls finals and was pretty impressed with the skating ability. Now some of them just need to mature and get some finesse. I don't think we're in as bad a shape as some feel.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Champs Camp offers criticism of the top ladies' programs, and often insists on changes. Sometimes I think this encourages a sameness and dullness. Gracie's SP change wasn't because of Champs Camp, though. I personally thought it was a mistake to change the program because even when she didn't skate it cleanly, she got good marks from the ISU judges---the grating, harsh music actually suited Gracie's big jumps and arm-flinging style far more than romantic music does.

Mirai never "got" the James Bond girl persona. She had the same blank face and non-existent personality she's had for every program since Worlds 2010. It's as if she's been mourning not medaling at Vancouver ever since.
 

carriecmu0503

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
The "don't have the points" / "season's best" problem is partially due to the paucity of Senior and Junior B's in North and South America. And that is a USFS problem. However, Ashley flutzes and two-foots, and Mirai under-rotates. Both have no consistent triple-triple. That is their and their coaches' problem.


Senior Bs don't count for season's best scores, with one exception. The Senior B used as the Olympic qualifier is the only one that allows one to get a season's best that can be used for purposes of grand prix invites. Therefore, unless one competes in the JGP, JW, SW, 4CC, or Europeans, it is just about impossible to break into SGP. This is why Max Aaron didn't have any SGP assignments last year, because he hadn't competed in anything to get a season's best score in 2011-2012.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
The "don't have the points" / "season's best" problem is partially due to the paucity of Senior and Junior B's in North and South America. And that is a USFS problem. However, Ashley flutzes and two-foots, and Mirai under-rotates. Both have no consistent triple-triple. That is their and their coaches' problem.

USFS does send top skaters from Nationals to B events in Europe in the early fall, and USFS inaugurated a US "B" event in Colorado. It would help if Canada reciprocated with another "B", but it seems they don't want to spend the money.

Yes, lots of US ladies flutz, but so do Russian and Japanese ladies, and some top Japanese ladies also UR. European ladies don't flutz as much, but many lip.
 

burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Champs Camp offers criticism of the top ladies' programs, and often insists on changes. Sometimes I think this encourages a sameness and dullness. Gracie's SP change wasn't because of Champs Camp, though. I personally thought it was a mistake to change the program because even when she didn't skate it cleanly, she got good marks from the ISU judges---the grating, harsh music actually suited Gracie's big jumps and arm-flinging style far more than romantic music does.

Mirai never "got" the James Bond girl persona. She had the same blank face and non-existent personality she's had for every program since Worlds 2010. It's as if she's been mourning not medaling at Vancouver ever since.

She most definitely skated the entire 2010-2011 season with personality and emotion (especially the Witches SP). It was in 2011-2012 with the awful Spartacus program and awkward tango that she really started retreating into a shell... hopefully next season she'll have more inspired programs and express more.
 

jace93

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
What's happening in Russia right now is not the norm. Most skaters are not phenoms by the time they are 13 and aren't skating on the SGP at 14. Gracie was a Junior skater for only 2 years and failed to even make Nationals her first year out and only got one JGP assignment the next season. But when she got people's attention back in the summer of 2011 she had gone through her growth spurts and kept her jumps. It remains to be seen if these 13, 14 year old Russian girls will even be around in 3 years or simply flame out like most do.

what's abnormal right now in russian junior ladies is the numbers of high level skater that year after year comes on the scene... and while I too think that many should stay more than a season there is a big difference becoming senior at 15 or at 18-19, and while practically only russian seems able to produce such a number of young talent every year, both japanese and chinese tend to get their more promising single skater in the senior rank as soon as they can be competitive (han yan, li zujin, satoko mihara,yuzuru hanyu and kanako murakami in the recent years...)
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
You can, however, get a qualifying score (as opposed to a season's best score) at a Senior B.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Cesario was injured for one or two seasons, so her late start does not have anything to do with USFS. I wish to heck the girl could get rid of her UR's. She's getting better, though :) Her Carmen LP was a lhighlight for me at US Nationals.
 

Figure 8's

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
I agree a little bit with what you said but don't bash how Mirai did at 4CC when she was very ill and after she flew from Japan to the US and then to Taipei in a week. I'm sure if this was not her only opportunity to skate at an international championship this season she would have skipped it.

Why do we always hear this same excuse when she skates so poorly. Just like last year at Nationals. If she is so ill, the smart thing would be to withdraw.
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Why do we always hear this same excuse when she skates so poorly. Just like last year at Nationals. If she is so ill, the smart thing would be to withdraw.
Maybe the smart thing but she would have lost her only chance to compete in a international championship this season. If she withdrew she would not have the chance to compete again unless something awful happens and she skates at the Olympics or Worlds.
 

Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
She most definitely skated the entire 2010-2011 season with personality and emotion (especially the Witches SP). It was in 2011-2012 with the awful Spartacus program and awkward tango that she really started retreating into a shell... hopefully next season she'll have more inspired programs and express more.

That's also about when Mirai's body changed again from 2010-2012. She literally hit two growth spurts, first in 2009, then after 2011. With UR issues that were already there it can't have been easy to try to correct them while adjusting once again to a new frame. Hopefully, now that she seems settled into her more mature figure she'll start addressing these with a new zeal. Hopefully.
 

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
I like her a lot, but I don't see her becoming a contender for World titles. But she at least showed some personality and I liked her tough, sassy persona (as opposed to the dying swans, juliets, sleeping beauties, etc. that everyone else does).

What's sad is that last year and earlier this year I would've thought Ashley was a serious contender for a bronze medal--and possibly the front runner (with all due respect to Carolina, Akiko, whichever Russian girl was peaking at the moment, etc.)

After seeing how she handled the pressure of nationals, I think she'll be lucky to get into the final group.

My prediction: Gracie around #6, Polina around #8 and Ashley around #10. If Mirai were there, she'd probably be even worse.

Hope I'm wrong--but it could be even worse.
 

Danibellerika

Medalist
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
I like her a lot, but I don't see her becoming a contender for World titles. But she at least showed some personality and I liked her tough, sassy persona (as opposed to the dying swans, juliets, sleeping beauties, etc. that everyone else does).

What's sad is that last year and earlier this year I would've thought Ashley was a serious contender for a bronze medal--and possibly the front runner (with all due respect to Carolina, Akiko, whichever Russian girl was peaking at the moment, etc.)

After seeing how she handled the pressure of nationals, I think she'll be lucky to get into the final group.

My prediction: Gracie around #6, Polina around #8 and Ashley around #10. If Mirai were there, she'd probably be even worse.

Hope I'm wrong--but it could be even worse.

I'm not an Ashley or Polina fan, but Polina finishing ahead of Ashley? That's as likely as Akiko Suzuki winning this thing. I think Gracie could place the highest of the Americans, perhaps cracking top 5 even, but Polina has next to no senior international reputation and will not receive the same PCS as she did at Nats. I do not see US ladies on the podium. Their best bet is a team medal. I do agree with you about the general problems though with our US ladies.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
I'm not an Ashley or Polina fan, but Polina finishing ahead of Ashley? That's as likely as Akiko Suzuki winning this thing. I think Gracie could place the highest of the Americans, perhaps cracking top 5 even, but Polina has next to no senior international reputation and will not receive the same PCS as she did at Nats. I do not see US ladies on the podium. Their best bet is a team medal. I do agree with you about the general problems though with our US ladies.

ITA. I see Gracie around 4th or 5th at her absolute best, Ashley around 5th to 7th, and Polina below 10th. One must remember that there are AT LEAST 10 ladies with previous senior experience who can (and probably will) out-do Polina: Yuna, Mao, Caro, Julia, Adelina, Gracie, Ashley, Akiko, Kanako, Zijun, and Kaetlyn.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
That's also about when Mirai's body changed again from 2010-2012. She literally hit two growth spurts, first in 2009, then after 2011. With UR issues that were already there it can't have been easy to try to correct them while adjusting once again to a new frame. Hopefully, now that she seems settled into her more mature figure she'll start addressing these with a new zeal. Hopefully.

She's been settled in that mature figure for two or three seasons and there's been no improvement. She's getting to a point where she needs a miracle to fix that. :(
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
ITA. I see Gracie around 4th or 5th at her absolute best, Ashley around 5th to 7th, and Polina below 10th. One must remember that there are AT LEAST 10 ladies with previous senior experience who can (and probably will) out-do Polina: Yuna, Mao, Caro, Julia, Adelina, Gracie, Ashley, Akiko, Kanako, Zijun, and Kaetlyn.

The U.S girls will have a way better shot to medal at Worlds, especialy Wagner and Gold. Kim, Kostner, and maybe Asada not there, and now getting to face Julia and Adelina on neutral ice rather than Russian ice (although now having to face Suzuki, Murakami and possibly Asada on Japanese Ice, with likely equally home cooked scoring). Who knows, there could be 2 U.S medals at Worlds, maybe a silver and bronze, but highly unlikely there will be any U.S medal at the Games in ladies.
 

zamboni step

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
The U.S girls will have a way better shot to medal at Worlds, especialy Wagner and Gold. Kim, Kostner, and maybe Asada not there, and now getting to face Julia and Adelina on neutral ice rather than Russian ice (although now having to face Suzuki, Murakami and possibly Asada on Japanese Ice, with likely equally home cooked scoring). Who knows, there could be 2 U.S medals at Worlds, maybe a silver and bronze, but highly unlikely there will be any U.S medal at the Games in ladies.

I doubt any of the US ladies will be beating Julia, and probably not Sotnikova at this rate. I think this is Russia's turn to medal, US will have it's chance in the future. I'm pretty sure the future US team will be Gracie, Karen and Polina/Courtney (if she cleans her PCS up).
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
I doubt any of the US ladies will be beating Julia, and probably not Sotnikova at this rate. I think this is Russia's turn to medal, US will have it's chance in the future. I'm pretty sure the future US team will be Gracie, Karen and Polina/Courtney (if she cleans her PCS up).

FWIW, Gracie's beat Adelina at every event they've skated in together (except 2012 WTT).

And both Polina and Karen are young -- we've yet to see how they cope with puberty. Will they make relatively graceful physical transitions, like Mao and Yuna, or will they get hammered by drastic body changes like Mirai?
 
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