2014 Olympics Mens Short Program | Page 75 | Golden Skate

2014 Olympics Mens Short Program

icekiwi

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
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Yes and we sure saw that real and proper skating today, LOL! Nothing we have seen in the last 6 years, the all time dark hole of mens skating really, even holds a candle to prime Plushenko (1999-2006 vintage). Maybe the odd performances (Hanyu at Nationals or the GP final, Chan at Trophee France and 2012 Canadians) but nothing on a consistent basis at all.

We have witnessed some superior skatings in the last couple of years, with superior choreography + superior technical capability - from the likes of Chan, Dennis Ten, Daisuke, Tatsuki, Fernandez and Yuzuru - that is undeniable. It is unfortunate that for this 'one' day and perhaps the most important day of their lives, the pressure got to them, no one put out a clean skate but we all know and have witnessed how they have skated this programs a lot better. The number of none skating fans that I know who would recall 'Parisian Walkways' by Yuzuru, 'Take Five', 'Vivaldi' by Chan, 'Sonatine in Violin', 'Pagliachi', 'Blues for Klook' by Daisuke, 'The Artist' by Dennis, etc. - they are the signature programs from the past 4 years which we as skating fans have truly enjoyed at the expense of their hardwork.

No, there is nothing to laugh about today. I felt disappointed 'for' them. Chan/Yuzuru/Dennis and the others, in their heart of hearts would want to skate the best performance of their lives and wouldn't want to disappoint their countries and fans (you and I) most of all. They have been consistent up to 'today'. I am sure they will come out fighting at Worlds. I wish them all the best and hopefully they could entertain us with even more superior programs in the future.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
It is unfortunate that for this 'one' day

This isnt just "one day", this is most or practically everyday for most of those. Dont create some dumb fantasy World most of those are capable of even semi clean performance on a regular basis, they arent. Just look at the major events this quad:

2011 Worlds- The gold medalist was great. The silver medalist had a lame short, but a very good long. The rest sucked with bombs dropping on the ice the final 2 flights, allowing a 17 year old kid who nobody had heard of and who would do nothing the next 3 years to win the bronze.

2012 Worlds- Wierd event with lots of mistakes by all the contenders in one or both programs, and a typical highly controversial win for Chan.

2013 Worlds- Nightmarish splatfest with awful performances by all but Ten who didnt win simply since judges hadnt expected him to even finish top 10 pre event.

2014 Olympics- Nothing needs to be said, it was today.

I could go further and break down the grand prixs and other events, but there is no need. All the events Chan and others have won with an outrageous number of falls and other mistakes, regardless how overmarked certain people you believe are or how bad the judging is at time, already says it all.


There has never been a weaker or more inconsistent group of mens skaters than the last 6 years. An average skater like Evan winning so many big events in that period without quads is even more telling than all Chan's regular 3, 4, 5, fall event wins.
 

dance4u

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Chipeur Vancouver 2010

At least Firus is only the third Canadian guy, so they probably expected more of Chipeur, being the second guy chosen over Sawyer and Reynolds. I can't help but wonder how Jeremy Ten would have done...
In Vaughn's defence
VAUGHN CHIPEUR WAS INJURED at Olympics with separated tendon in his landing foot and a partial separation in the other. Hard to land jumps with that!!!!!!!
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I dont think anyone thought the 3rd Canadian man would do well in this field. Then again Rogozine surprised with his result at Worlds last year, so maybe they were hoping for something similar but it was never very likely. Likewise the 2nd Canadian man in 2010 was always likely to finish way down the field, although maybe not as far down as Vaughn finished.
 

Crylais

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Just comparing Chan's and Hanyu's SP (not the execution just the planning of it) - just talking about jumps and assuming they will score the same for spins

Chan's SP = 4T+3T, 3A, 3Lz* (*to denote scheduled in 2nd half of program) - BV = 29.5

Hanyu's SP = 4T, 3A*, 3Lz+3T* - BV = 30.76

I am new to figure skating so I apologise in advance if I am wrong but isn't landing a 4T+3T more difficult than a 3Lz+3T? Wouldn't it be better for Chan to do say a 4T, 3A, 3Lz+3T* where the BV = 29.91? I know .41 might not seem much but it can make a difference sometimes e.g. Hanyu's LP v Chan's LP.

I am assuming Chan is doing the 4T+3T because he is more confident in landing it and possibly struggles with landing jumps towards the end of the program??
 

mazzy

Spectator
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
The 4T as a solo jump needs to be preceeded by steps (not that the judges seem to care), so doing 4T+3T allows for a longer setup. In addition, Chan is more flexible that way: If the landing on the 4T doesn't work as expected, he can still add the 3T to the lutz. Hanyu could probably add a 3T to most of his quads, however he takes the risk of eventually missing the combination altogether if the 3Lz doesn't work out.
 

Crylais

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
The 4T as a solo jump needs to be preceeded by steps (not that the judges seem to care), so doing 4T+3T allows for a longer setup. In addition, Chan is more flexible that way: If the landing on the 4T doesn't work as expected, he can still add the 3T to the lutz. Hanyu could probably add a 3T to most of his quads, however he takes the risk of eventually missing the combination altogether if the 3Lz doesn't work out.
Thanks. That clarifies a lot of my confusion.
 

icekiwi

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Dont create some dumb fantasy World most of those are capable of even semi clean performance on a regular basis, they arent. Just look at the major events this quad:

I am entitled to create whatever fantasy that I like. I am entitled to my opinion that the past 4 years had given us some amazing skates with great technical content and an increased amount of intricate choreography from the men. So, credit to them for attempting so much. That again is my opinion which I am entitled to.

If this group of men is so 'weak' in your opinion, then why keep watching? I keep watching because I have enjoyed their programs and believe in their superb skating skills. I am personally a big fan of Chan, Yuzuru and Dai. So, with the results, either way Gold/Silver to Chan or Yuzu, I an happy.

Whatever your personal breakdown of previous events are, I don't really care. It is simply I have a different opinion and have thoroughly enjoyed the last Worlds/Grand Prix events as I believe we are developing a far better group of skaters, fulfilling the 5 segment of PC part of the scores.

By the way, I love 'Pang & Tong', how did they do in the 'Free' as I didn't watch any of the Pairs Free? Could someone explain how the Germans still get on the podium even with 2 falls in the free. Thanks.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
By the way, I love 'Pang & Tong', how did they do in the 'Free' as I didn't watch any of the Pairs Free? Could someone explain how the Germans still get on the podium even with 2 falls in the free. Thanks.

P/T deservedly won the free over S/S (by 0.44 points), but not by enough to make up for the 6.34 point difference after the SP.

P/T did a 2A/1A seq with a step out (-0.93 -> 2.59 points) and a 3T (+0.20 -> 4.30 points) when S/S fell on a 3T (1.18 points, -1.00 for the fall) and did a clean 2A (+0.57 -> 4.20 points). S/S fell on the 3ThA, but it was still worth 5.25 points (-1 for the fall), so P/T only won on the TES side by 0.67 points (2.67 if you include the fall deductions in the TES score).
S/S got 2.23 points more in PCS, and here is where I'd personally have given P/T higher marks, especially in Execution and Interpretation. But still, that would by no means have been enough to overtake S/S, who ended up ahead of P/T by 5.90 points total.
 

icekiwi

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Thank you Frenchie for that. I agree, P/T's PC scores should have been higher from what I saw in the GPs. S/S's LP music was skated to by Shen/Zhao but of course, Shen/Zhao's interpretation were stunning & mersmerizing. What is your opinion of the 2nd Russian team of B/K, I think, the team that came 2nd. Are they being set up for the next Olympic Gold? I have always felt the moment there is a 'strongish' Russian pair team, they are always being propped up by the judges for the next Oly Gold, for example I never liked Totmianina/Marinin, never got into any of their programs whereas V/Trankov does have a certain charm and charisma and they do produce the big tricks. T/M (Oly 2006) were so propped up all the time even though the tricks were rather small plus their presentation is almost non-existent. Thanks.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
The 4T as a solo jump needs to be preceeded by steps (not that the judges seem to care), so doing 4T+3T allows for a longer setup. In addition, Chan is more flexible that way: If the landing on the 4T doesn't work as expected, he can still add the 3T to the lutz. Hanyu could probably add a 3T to most of his quads, however he takes the risk of eventually missing the combination altogether if the 3Lz doesn't work out.
That's exactly right - it should be, but it almost never is. So long as the judges don't penalize skaters for it, we'll continue to see solo quads out of no steps being showered with +GOE and second half 3-3s instead of more difficult 4-3s. I think the ISU needs to make the value of the second/third jumps in a combination a function of the difficulty of the first jump. 4-3s at any point are more difficult by 3-3s a little more than a minute into the SP.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Did Chan really win with 5 falls? (in which event?) Out of curiosity.

I don't recall 5 falls, but he "won" Skate Canada in 2010/2011 (I don't remember which year), with four falls, which was absolutely disgusting.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
In Vaughn's defence
VAUGHN CHIPEUR WAS INJURED at Olympics with separated tendon in his landing foot and a partial separation in the other. Hard to land jumps with that!!!!!!!

True but he knew that going in - he should have relinquished his spot but he wanted olympic glory.
 
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