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Thread: Mirai posts her thoughts on Nationals

  1. #106
    Keeper of the Kweens OGM. MK's Winter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    To be fair I think Mirai's fans are tired of hearing about how awful we are, I know I am. I see from your posts you have no qualms about posting insults yourself about Mirai's fans.
    Agreed.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    To be fair I think Mirai's fans are tired of hearing about how awful we are, I know I am.
    I cant speak for you as I am not familiar with you but many "Mirai fans" brought on the disgust towards them themselves with their refusal to let go of the Nagasu not being named to the Olympic team, and their own vitriol spewed constantly at Wagner and the USFSA. I guess now it is coming back around to bite them back, but many of them deserve every bit of it. If you dish it you had better be able to take it.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    I believe the discussion was on scoring potential, but if you want to talk TES, I will go there. Here are Total TES scores, SP + FS, for Boston Nationals.

    Gold: 111.61
    Edmunds: 103.35
    Nagasu: 102.59
    Wagner: 91.00

    You are saying Edmunds has the highest TES score of all the ladies. That is not what the numbers show here. The numbers show Gold has higher TES here, by far, and possibly internationally as well. For Edmunds doing harder content than Mirai, it wasn't reflected much in the scores, as Nagasu's TES was within a point of Edmunds. Nagasu has some qualities both the judges and the audience appreciate which you overlook.

    I agree with you that Edmunds PCS will go up with exposure to international judges, but that won't necessarily help her in Sochi. She is likely to be unfairly lowballed, as a new senior skater, in the Olympics. If she does well in Sochi, her PCS at worlds will likely go up, not for her performance at worlds, but for the performance she did in Sochi. That is the a flaw in PCS as it is praticed by judges, it is a lagging indicator of skating skills, it holds down new skaters who perform well, and holds up veteran skaters who perform poorly.
    Neither Edmunds or Nagasu were going to do well in Sochi. About 10th place is probably the best either could have hoped for. I dont think even the USFSA expect a great result from Edmunds in Sochi, their hopes are pinned entirely on Gold and Wagner (and even tehirs not great as far as medals go). They just want her to get her name out there and gain the much needed experience. Either way none of this would matter had Nagasu skated a bit better and beaten her for 2nd place at Nationals. If she had she would be going to the Olympics instead of Edmunds.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I cant speak for you as I am not familiar with you but many "Mirai fans" brought on the disgust towards them themselves with their refusal to let go of the Nagasu not being named to the Olympic team, and their own vitriol spewed constantly at Wagner and the USFSA. I guess now it is coming back around to bite them back, but many of them deserve every bit of it. If you dish it you had better be able to take it.
    My issue with the whole thing is this. Tough choices were made here. Leaving Mirai home was not an outrageous decision, and I think had Polina been left at home it would not be an outrageous decision. The other two were clearly going to go based on the selection criteria. Where the frustration for me as a Mirai-neutral person is when her fans try to come up with so many excuses that try to make the decision seem more outrageous than it actually was. We've had to read the USFSA was racist, she was punished for not having a coach, corporate sponsors "bought" Ashley's place on the team, Mirai didn't know she had to skate well before Nationals, etc. Many of the excuses are speculative, but the reasons to leave her home are based in fact: she is inconsistent based on her scores this season, two people who would not have made the team under the "body of work" criteria beat Mirai, and one person who didn't beat Mirai was going regardless based on her "body of work". It's laughable to suggest Mirai's body of work under the criteria is better than Ashley's, or that Mirai's body of work is strong enough to bump anyone else off the team.

  5. #110
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    I usually hang out in the Fan Fest section, much more pleasant and I am forever grateful to the
    mods for creating it.

  6. #111
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    I posted the following on my Facebook page. More for my own interest and more for friends who showed interest in the process. One friend told me that my explanation help her understand better why Ashley was chosen (though I came from a neutral standpoint; I made a point to point out both scenarios).

    Okay, I know there has been some heightened interest in Ladies figure skating due to the controversial nature of its Olympic team selection. So I thought it would be good to use my figure skating research skills to good use and consider one factor that my had lead to their decision.

    One major component of the scoring at any figure skating event is the technical elements score, or TES. That is the score you get for executing your jumps, spins and step sequences.

    In the free skate, here were the TES scores of the top four at U.S. Nationals:

    Gracie Gold: 71.27
    Polina Edmunds: 66.21
    Mirai Nagasu: 65.62
    Ashley Wagner: 58.48.

    Okay, so at first glance, you say, well it's totally obvious to send the top three, look how low Ashley Wagner's score is compared to Mirai Nagasu!

    However, the picture muddies a bit when you look at past international results.

    Here are the technical scores for each of those four ladies at their major international events this fall:

    Polina Edmunds: 61.82, 62.37, 62.95
    Ashley Wagner: 58.54, 61.81, 56.06
    Gracie Gold: 56.09, 55.09
    Mirai Nagasu: 38.18, 57.95

    Now you're probably wondering why does Ashley and Polina have an extra event. Based on their placement in what is called Grand Prix events (most skaters get two), they qualified for something that is called the Grand Prix Final. Polina Edunds qualified in the junior level, while Ashley qualified at the senior level.

    Another thing to consider that as a junior skater, Polina Edmunds has one less element than the senior ladies. So if you add two points (the base value for that senior element to Polina's score, then she has an even bigger gap on the three senior ladies.

    So even though Polina Edmunds does not have a considerable amount of senior experience, she has been highly consistent this season and has turned in a high technical score, which could contribute to a good showing at the Olympics.

    Gracie Gold, as the champion, after a subpar fall season proven herself by winning Nationals.

    So that leaves us with Mirai and Ashley. Ashley technical scores have been consistent if not super high (compared to Polina), while Mirai scores tended to swing between OK and absolutely dismal (and it's worth noting that at a recent event last week she scored 48.12).

    If you look back at the previous season (2012-2013):

    Ashley Wagner: 63.83, 62.91, 54.93, 61.34
    Mirai Nagasu: 45.89, 56.36

    Ashley has two more events due to again making the Grand Prix Final and going to the World Championships last year.

    So I guess you could argue it two ways: Ashley clearly peaked in 2012 and hadn't done that well in 2013, so therefore her performance at Nationals was indicative of a downward trend. Therefore she should stay home.

    But one could look at the huge swing in the technical scores at Mirai and question which Mirai will show up at the Olympics and dock her for her inconsistent record.

    Obviously, the latter was ultimately the deciding factor.

    As for me personally, I'm heartbroken for Mirai and loved her performances at Nationals ( I gave a standing ovation for both).

    My point with this exercise to probably shed some insight into what kind of numbers the selection committee was looking at and how that might have factored into their decision.
    My point is, that Facebook is an opportunity to have some good conversations with your nonskating fans. Since there is awareness of the selection....it's a great time to bring up stuff you might not have the chance to do so otherwise. Even if they disagree with you, at least you know there's some interest that could translate someday (or not...but still it's fun to have healthy (key word) debate).

  7. #112
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    Thanks Mrs. P! and I just thanked you on another thread too!! I hadn't seen those numbers before and I found them enlightening

  8. #113
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Glad I'm a Julia fan!!! I also wish Marai and Ashley the best.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    This goes along with fan reports that Ashley was performing badly in nationals practices, and the USFSA needed to start covering their behinds ASAP.
    Yes, she was---because she was breaking in new boots.

    Why were skaters only told in meetings at nationals? Shouldn't they have been told prior to the whole season so they can work a lot harder at GPs, etc? By "telling" skaters I mean drilling it into their heads at summer camps that every competition now counts, not posting a file on the website with no fanfare.
    The selection criteria was published early in the summer and skaters were being told from that point on. Certainly this was discussed in detail at Champs Camp in late summer.

  10. #115
    Custom Title Zamboni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Huh? I think her comments may have gone right over your head. She isn't trying to change the descision and she self admits that she hasn't processed the whole thing yet. What she is doing is calming down her fans and asking them to support the US team in Sochi. Indirectly asking people to support he USFSA which quite arguably isn't supporting her. This is called being bigger than your adversity and not sinking below or to it. This is pure class and admirable on all merits.

    Still haven't seen an Ashley statement wishing Marai the best and/or congratulating her on her bronze.

    It would have been right for USFSA to at least send Marai to worlds. I just think she is every bit as capable as Ashley or Polina and would score similar.
    Wow, if Ashley did that she would be attacked unmercifully. She would be accused of being arrogant and a mean girl because she made the team and showing up Mirai.

  11. #116
    Custom Title Sasha'sSpins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Glad I'm a Julia fan!!! I also wish Marai and Ashley the best.
    I love Mirai but I'm a huge Julia fan too and will be over the moon if she and/or her teammate medal in Sochi. I'll be just as pleased as punch if either wins gold too. Of course I'd be thrilled if Gracie manages to medal too.

  12. #117
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zamboni View Post
    Wow, if Ashley did that she would be attacked unmercifully. She would be accused of being arrogant and a mean girl because she made the team and showing up Mirai.
    I for one would never attack someone for showing good sportsmanship. Lets not forget Ashley may have the most to lose here if she fails bad again...right. Ashley might be about my least favorite on this list but come on....no one wants to see her fall on her face right. That would be like rooting against figure skating. The girls got more skill than anyone I skate with.

    It seems to me like Marai is the one getting attacked for a fairly positive statement. Am I missing something?

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Yes, she was---because she was breaking in new boots.



    The selection criteria was published early in the summer and skaters were being told from that point on. Certainly this was discussed in detail at Champs Camp in late summer.
    I find it difficult to believe an elite skater like Ashely and her team would plan so badly she would appear at Nationals wearing new boots? Where did you get this information?

  14. #119
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    Skaters don't "plan" for their boots to break down prematurely. It happens. Unfortunately, it happened to Ashley just before Nationals. The information came from her coach, Rafael Arutunian, replying to questions as to why Ashley was 4th after the SP.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post

    It seems to me like Marai is the one getting attacked for a fairly positive statement. Am I missing something?
    I think Mirai would have been attacked by some no matter what she said and when she said it - likewise I think Ashley would also be attacked by some had she said anything, and for that matter, Polina and Gracie too had they chosen to comment on this issue. Heck if Nathan Chen had said anything about this he would probably have vitriol sent his way too.

    Cynical of me, I know.

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