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Thread: Mirai posts her thoughts on Nationals

  1. #121
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    Mirai shouldn't be attacked for her statement because she has a lot of fans and they are very interested to hear her opinion of the situation. She was polite yet honest, which is all anyone can ask for.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Still, even at that competition, Mirai's TES at Rostelcom for her FS was 57.95 vs. 62.95 for Polina from JGPF. And that's with one less element, so if you add the BV of the SpSq (2.00) to that TES, you would be at 64.95, which is super competitive for a senior lady.

    Polina's TES in her JGP as been: 61.82, 62.37, 62.95, so she's pretty consistent technically.

    It's totally possible Mirai could score 65 at an international competition, but her international record this season doesn't indicate that: 38.18 (NHK), 57.95 (Rostelecom), 48.67 (4CC).

    While Ashley hasn't been at all cylinders this season, her TES has seen that huge up and down as Mirai did this season: 58.54 (Skate America) , 61.81 (Trophee Eric Bompard), 56.06 (GPF)

    Gracie's TES this season in the GP: 56.09 (Skate Canada), 55.58 (NHK). And that was with sub par performances.

    For the record, I loved Mirai at nationals and gladly gave her a standing o at both her performances. However, if the committee were looking at these TES numbers, I can see a little better what went into their decision.
    A good, well reasoned analysis, as always on your part. I would just note, as has been drummed into my head countless times by proponents of the USFSA decision, that only 8 events, or categories of events, were to be considered by the selection committee. The JGP's that you cite as evidence of Edmund's consistency should not have been considered by the selection commitee, just as Nagasu's fine 2010 Olympic appearance was not considered, nor was her 2008 national championship, nor was her junior grand prix final gold medal considered, nor her silver medal at junior worlds, all accomplishments that Edmunds never achieved. And while the junior GP final and junior worlds from 2013 could be considered, they were supposed to be seventh and eighth in priority of those events considered. How they were actually considered by the selection committee behind closed doors is something we may never know, but I suspect they may have been given more weight than seventh and eighth on the list.

  3. #123
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    A good, well reasoned analysis, as always on your part. I would just note, as has been drummed into my head countless times by proponents of the USFSA decision, that only 8 events, or categories of events, were to be considered by the selection committee. The JGP's that you cite as evidence of Edmund's consistency should not have been considered by the selection commitee, just as Nagasu's fine 2010 Olympic appearance was not considered, nor was her 2008 national championship, nor was her junior grand prix final gold medal considered, nor her silver medal at junior worlds, all accomplishments that Edmunds never achieved. And while the junior GP final and junior worlds from 2013 could be considered, they were supposed to be seventh and eighth in priority of those events considered. How they were actually considered by the selection committee behind closed doors is something we may never know, but I suspect they may have been given more weight than seventh and eighth on the list.
    Well the one EVENT that does count in the selection would have been Polina's JGPF final appearance (the third of the three events I cited). She got the her best FS TES there: 62.95. And again, if you tack on two points for a spiral sequence, then you have 64.95, which is well above the 57.95 that Mirai turned in at her GP event in Russia.

    I can see the selection committee's process go something like this:

    Polina beat Mirai at Nationals (Event #1), now does Mirai's performance at her GP events (#4) + her previous national performance (#6) trump that?

    They will look at Mirai's 7th place at Nationals, her dismal scores at NHK and say, "No."

    Then they will probably note that, oh Polina also scored well at the JGP Final. Adding to her case to be sent.

    Now they will look at Ashley and Mirai. Mirai beat Ashley at Nationals (Event #1), now does Ashley's performances at Worlds, GP Series and last year's nationals trump the nationals result?

    The selection committee felt that Ashley's 5th place at Worlds, Gold/Silver/Bronze during the GP and her national championship last year did make up for the fact that she was beaten by Mirai at Nationals.

    However, if it was a committee that was looking at trajectory, they could have easily made the argument to leave Ashley at home.

    Yes, they could and should have been more transparent about what goes into the process, but when I break it down that way, I can see how the selection committee came to the conclusion it did. And it would have made sense if they choose to go the other way.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Neither Edmunds or Nagasu were going to do well in Sochi. About 10th place is probably the best either could have hoped for. I dont think even the USFSA expect a great result from Edmunds in Sochi, their hopes are pinned entirely on Gold and Wagner (and even tehirs not great as far as medals go). They just want her to get her name out there and gain the much needed experience. Either way none of this would matter had Nagasu skated a bit better and beaten her for 2nd place at Nationals. If she had she would be going to the Olympics instead of Edmunds.
    I in general agree with this post, I think Edmunds or Nagasu would likely end up 9th to 12th. But if the USFSA isn't counting on Edmunds, then there was no reason not to give Nagasu worlds, and send Edmunds to junior worlds. Some have suggested there is a rule prohibiting a skater going to junior worlds after being in the Olympics, if so, either Edmunds could have had the Olympics and skipped junior worlds, or Nagasu could have gotten Sochi and Edmunds senior Worlds. Any of these solutions would have been more palatable to a lot of people. As far as getting you name out, I don't think the Olympics is the place for a first senior assignment if the purpose is to just get your name out. There are plenty of other competitions, including worlds or junior worlds, where that could be done.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    I find it difficult to believe an elite skater like Ashely and her team would plan so badly she would appear at Nationals wearing new boots? Where did you get this information?
    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/...to-ladies-lead

    Wagner's coach, Rafael Arutunian, blamed part of her troubles on boot problems, saying her previous pair broke down and her new ones left her with blisters on both her feet.

  6. #126
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    I really had hoped this brouhaha would finally die down. I didn't understand or agree with all of the political maneuverings and inconsistent Olympic team decisions at U.S. Nationals, but that has frequently been the case with this sport.

    I am ready to enjoy Olympic skating, and hope all of the skaters do well, not just the ones from the U.S.

  7. #127
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    Understand that Wagner's boots broke down - but even she did not use that as an excuse for her poor performance, so why should her fans? She said HERSELF that the pressure is what did her in, and given her competitive history I'm inclined to believe her fully. I can certainly admire the honesty because not every skater would have admitted that, especially if what her coach said was true.

    And this "brouhaha" isn't dying any time soon...it's gonna be like a black cloud that hangs over Wagner the entire time she's in Sochi. In fact, it's one of the things I'm most looking forward to: how mentally tough is she? Can she TRULY handle big-time pressure? She may have choked at Nationals but she has another chance to show the world that she is not that type of skater. Will she take advantage?

    Where the frustration for me as a Mirai-neutral person is when her fans try to come up with so many excuses that try to make the decision seem more outrageous than it actually was. We've had to read the USFSA was racist, she was punished for not having a coach, corporate sponsors "bought" Ashley's place on the team, Mirai didn't know she had to skate well before Nationals, etc. Many of the excuses are speculative, but the reasons to leave her home are based in fact: she is inconsistent based on her scores this season, two people who would not have made the team under the "body of work" criteria beat Mirai, and one person who didn't beat Mirai was going regardless based on her "body of work".
    But...and forgive me for playing DA for a sec - do we KNOW 100% that sponsors DIDN'T "buy Wagner's place" on the team...or even apply just a tiny bit of pressure to the committee to send her? (Remember that the USFS and Miss Wagner share more than one sponsor...) Or that Nagasu lacking a coach did not work against her? Of course we don't.

    Not suggesting that they did, but there is no way for us to prove that they didn't. That gets to the heart of this controversy actually, and why so many were up in arms about this.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Skaters don't "plan" for their boots to break down prematurely. It happens. Unfortunately, it happened to Ashley just before Nationals. The information came from her coach, Rafael Arutunian, replying to questions as to why Ashley was 4th after the SP.
    Well, seems the wise thing to do is after your boots get a certain age on them, you start breaking down another set gradually while the other set is on its final leg. Still seems like bad planning in an olympic year imo and one that is avoidable. Hope Raphael doesn't repeat what he did to Michelle at Torino.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Understand that Wagner's boots broke down - but even she did not use that as an excuse for her poor performance, so why should her fans? She said HERSELF that the pressure is what did her in, and given her competitive history I'm inclined to believe her fully. I can certainly admire the honesty because not every skater would have admitted that, especially if what her coach said was true.

    And this "brouhaha" isn't dying any time soon...it's gonna be like a black cloud that hangs over Wagner the entire time she's in Sochi. In fact, it's one of the things I'm most looking forward to: how mentally tough is she? Can she TRULY handle big-time pressure? She may have choked at Nationals but she has another chance to show the world that she is not that type of skater. Will she take advantage?



    But...and forgive me for playing DA for a sec - do we KNOW 100% that sponsors DIDN'T "buy Wagner's place" on the team...or even apply just a tiny bit of pressure to the committee to send her? (Remember that the USFS and Miss Wagner share more than one sponsor...) Or that Nagasu lacking a coach did not work against her? Of course we don't.

    Not suggesting that they did, but there is no way for us to prove that they didn't. That gets to the heart of this controversy actually, and why so many were up in arms about this.
    I think the accusations of racism that some people made were way overboard. Figure skating will always have an element of bias. The favorites are always protected when they screw up, and when the USFSA wants someone to retire, that person does not get fair marks regardless. In this case it was exaggerated because Ashley didn't deliver.


    It would be sad to have Americans wishing for another American to perform poorly at the Olympics, that's all. The competition on the international stage is tough enough, as is. Peace out.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Understand that Wagner's boots broke down - but even she did not use that as an excuse for her poor performance, so why should her fans? She said HERSELF that the pressure is what did her in, and given her competitive history I'm inclined to believe her fully. I can certainly admire the honesty because not every skater would have admitted that, especially if what her coach said was true.

    And this "brouhaha" isn't dying any time soon...it's gonna be like a black cloud that hangs over Wagner the entire time she's in Sochi. In fact, it's one of the things I'm most looking forward to: how mentally tough is she? Can she TRULY handle big-time pressure? She may have choked at Nationals but she has another chance to show the world that she is not that type of skater. Will she take advantage?



    But...and forgive me for playing DA for a sec - do we KNOW 100% that sponsors DIDN'T "buy Wagner's place" on the team...or even apply just a tiny bit of pressure to the committee to send her? (Remember that the USFS and Miss Wagner share more than one sponsor...) Or that Nagasu lacking a coach did not work against her? Of course we don't.

    Not suggesting that they did, but there is no way for us to prove that they didn't. That gets to the heart of this controversy actually, and why so many were up in arms about this.

    Also, there is a bigger "black cloud" than Ashley's to worry about as far as Sochi is concerned. Try suicide bombers ...

    http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireSto...-risk-22308875

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    But...and forgive me for playing DA for a sec - do we KNOW 100% that sponsors DIDN'T "buy Wagner's place" on the team...or even apply just a tiny bit of pressure to the committee to send her? (Remember that the USFS and Miss Wagner share more than one sponsor...) Or that Nagasu lacking a coach did not work against her? Of course we don't.
    Max Aaron - proudly sponsored by Nike and Liberty Mutual.

    Jason Brown - no sponsors (yet).

    End of argument.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Well, seems the wise thing to do is after your boots get a certain age on them, you start breaking down another set gradually while the other set is on its final leg. Still seems like bad planning in an olympic year imo and one that is avoidable. Hope Raphael doesn't repeat what he did to Michelle at Torino.
    This is exactly what my non-skating husband observed and I agree. With so much at risk, why not have 2 pairs of working skates?

  13. #133
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    ^ for people who have an inside view into elite skating, it would be great to learn more about this whole boot breaking in/breaking down conundrum. Do the blades factor into this equation - do skaters tend to have only one set of 'good' blades and does this factor into the process at all?

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Max Aaron - proudly sponsored by Nike and Liberty Mutual.

    Jason Brown - no sponsors (yet).

    End of argument.
    Yes, Max definitely is on Team LM.

    But are you sure that Max is sponsored by Nike??
    I remember that he tweeted thanks to the company after taking home some Nike swag from one or both media summits. But I assume all the athletes at the summit -- whether sponsored by Nike or not -- received the same stuff.
    And in random photos, Max can be seen wearing Nike stuff now and again ... but lots of athletes wear Nike by choice, not because they are sponsored.
    So I am not sure ...

    ETA:
    Interesting that Jason has deleted his Instagram and Twitter posts regarding the nut butter company. But Kori's posts remain, so seems true that she really is the one being sponsored.

  15. #135
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    Consistent application of "body of work"

    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    I in general agree with this post, I think Edmunds or Nagasu would likely end up 9th to 12th. But if the USFSA isn't counting on Edmunds, then there was no reason not to give Nagasu worlds, and send Edmunds to junior worlds. Some have suggested there is a rule prohibiting a skater going to junior worlds after being in the Olympics, if so, either Edmunds could have had the Olympics and skipped junior worlds, or Nagasu could have gotten Sochi and Edmunds senior Worlds. Any of these solutions would have been more palatable to a lot of people. As far as getting you name out, I don't think the Olympics is the place for a first senior assignment if the purpose is to just get your name out. There are plenty of other competitions, including worlds or junior worlds, where that could be done.
    Here's what confuses me - and maybe Mirai. Polina is new to the senior level. She has no body of work at the senior level. So, did the committee look at Polina's placement with other junior competitors and compare them to Mirai's at the senior? That doesn't seem like a fair comparison. True that Polina outscored Mirai by about 3-4 pointsat the Nationals. One of those points was Mirai's one second time infraction. Polina has excellent technical elements that will serve her well now and in the future. But subjectively, I am not in love with Polina's arm flapping artistry. Very junior-ish and what you'd expect from a 15 year old. The international senior judges will be no where as generous as the US judges were. And finally, the pairs Olympic decision was also very, very close. Zhang and Bartholomay (who I love) beat out Denney and Coughlin by .29 points. The committee awarded Z/B the Olympics and D/C the Worlds. Why didn't they split the assignments like that for Mirai and Polina/Ashley? Especially since Polina, supposedly will go to the Junior Worlds.

    I think Mirai wrote her piece to put an end to the conversation. 4CC was a disappointment, I'm sure. But if she has renewed determination to keep skating I hope she finds the right coach. Mirai had to go through a physical growth spurt; now she's going through an emotional one. Before, she seemed like that little 14 year old that won Nationals. I'm starting to see a woman emerge. I'm rooting for you , Mirai!

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