Newsweek article: 'The Frozen Closet'

Dr. Jenn · Jan 31, 2014

http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/01/31/olympics-soch-skating-sexuality.html

TSL posted a link on their Facebook page to this Newsweek article, which discusses homophobia and gender normativity in the world of figure skating. It is an interesting and well-researched article.

Matilda · Jan 31, 2014

This really is a pretty good article. It does, however, still completely ignore the fact that the closet may include lesbians as well as gays. It does discuss the image of figure skating as an "effeminate sport", note that women are called "ladies", and that women have only recently been allowed to wear pants, but that's it. Even Jen Kirk's comment is: "We have to be Ken and Barbie, but the reality is that Ken is dating Ken and Barbie doesn't always want to look like Barbie, or at least act like Barbie." Hello, Barbie may also be dating Barbie! My guess is that the situation is much the same as with gay men in the sport: as long as you fit the gender stereotype, it's ok. This further underscores the heteronormativity of much of the official side of figure skating in the USA. The individuals who break the gender stereotypes are the ones who get scorned and face discrimination.

wallylutz · Jan 31, 2014

I think this article is well researched. In some of Hanyu threads earlier in the season, I expressed these same points as well. There is no other skater who is more effeminate than Hanyu right now and being perceived as having a connection with Johnny Weir really doesn't help. PCS doesn't just jump by 12+points within a span of 3 weeks. JSF may have "sponsored" the GPF, it remains to be seen if that can be sustained.

MalloryArcher · Jan 31, 2014

There's a similar article out now on Buzzfeed too.

Buttercup · Jan 31, 2014

I thought it was a very interesting article, though it is obviously focused on the situation in North America. I'm not sure skating is perceived the same way, or run the same way, in other countries. I thought Jenny Kirk made a good point in that the expectations are constraining not just for men, who get to pick between athletic and artistic (what, you can't be both?) but also for the ladies, who are often pushed into an ice princess persona whether it fits them or not. Although at the top level internationally, I do see skaters who have managed to break away from this.

wallylutz said:
I think this article is well researched. In some of Hanyu threads earlier in the season, I expressed these same points as well. There is no other skater who is more effeminate than Hanyu right now and being perceived as having a connection with Johnny Weir really doesn't help. PCS doesn't just jump by 12+points within a span of 3 weeks. JSF may have "sponsored" the GPF, it remains to be seen if that can be sustained.

It can, however, go up 17 points in just over one month, if the performance merits it. Hanyu may have enjoyed some home ice bonus, but he's hardly the only skater to ever benefit from this, or to get a boost for consistently delivering strong performances, some of which garnered higher PCS than the TEB one.

There's nothing wrong with a man choosing to perform in the style(s) that Hanyu or Weir have. The suggestion that it is wrong or distasteful reflects poorly and the person making it, not on the skaters themselves.

I can't say I'm surprised that you'd take a completely unrelated thread as yet another opportunity to bash Hanyu. If Chan breaks Hanyu's record again, will you stop?

chloepoco · Jan 31, 2014

wallylutz said:
I think this article is well researched. In some of Hanyu threads earlier in the season, I expressed these same points as well. There is no other skater who is more effeminate than Hanyu right now and being perceived as having a connection with Johnny Weir really doesn't help. PCS doesn't just jump by 12+points within a span of 3 weeks. JSF may have "sponsored" the GPF, it remains to be seen if that can be sustained.

Despite your insinuations to the contrary, Hanyu won over Patrick because he skated better.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 31, 2014

chloepoco said:
Despite your insinuations to the contrary, Hanyu won over Patrick because he skated better.

Thoroughly agreed, particularly taking the SP into consideration. But he won the FS due to home ice PCS, and certainly would not be receiving 92.5 PCS for the same skate in Sochi.

Buttercup · Jan 31, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Thoroughly agreed, particularly taking the SP into consideration. But he won the FS due to home ice PCS, and certainly would not be receiving 92.5 PCS for the same skate in Sochi.

I think almost every elite skater has benefited from generous PCS at one time or another. Some more than once.

If Hanyu skates well in Sochi, I expect him to get a score in the neighborhood of his GPF one. Olympic inflation should ensure some nice scores and a few PBs for those who do a good job.

Dr. Jenn · Jan 31, 2014

Thanks for the heads-up about the BuzzFeed article, MalloryArcher and Bluebonnet. It was a really good (albeit lengthy) read as well!

http://www.buzzfeed.com/blairbraverman/why-is-the-worlds-gayest-sport-stuck-in-the-closet

flipsydoodle · Jan 31, 2014

Only men are gay? No lesbians in figure skating? That's what we'd be given to believe in this article! No mention of what it might be like to be a queer woman trying to get ahead in figure skating, in any country, not just the US.

drivingmissdaisy · Jan 31, 2014

Buttercup said:
There's nothing wrong with a man choosing to perform in the style(s) that Hanyu or Weir have. The suggestion that it is wrong or distasteful reflects poorly and the person making it, not on the skaters themselves.

There is nothing wrong with it, but I have to admit sometimes I don't enjoy programs as much when the men are overly feminine in their presentation. As a judge I wouldn't mark them down. However, as a fan of dance I do prefer watching a strong male presence on the ice, rather than a man who skates like a woman but with better jumps.

skateluvr · Jan 31, 2014

wallylutz said:
I think this article is well researched. In some of Hanyu threads earlier in the season, I expressed these same points as well. There is no other skater who is more effeminate than Hanyu right now and being perceived as having a connection with Johnny Weir really doesn't help. PCS doesn't just jump by 12+points within a span of 3 weeks. JSF may have "sponsored" the GPF, it remains to be seen if that can be sustained.

I think Machida comes close with that firebird outfit, but que sera sera. It has always been thus in dance and FS and will not change. It does seem tho, the judges would rather hand the gold to Patrick Chan, who people assume to be hetero.

Olympia · Jan 31, 2014

flipsydoodle said:
Only men are gay? No lesbians in figure skating? That's what we'd be given to believe in this article! No mention of what it might be like to be a queer woman trying to get ahead in figure skating, in any country, not just the US.

I think skating tends to emphasize the issue of men who are gay because skating is perceived (by some silly people) as a "sissy" sport. Whether a girl is a lesbian or not doesn't affect that perception. I suspect that female athletes have more problems in some of the supposedly more aggressive sports, such as soccer, ice hockey, or heptathlon, for a parallel reason: for many years, a lot of (silly) people thought that any girl who was muscular and aggressive had to be gay, because those are seen as male characteristics.

treeloving · Jan 31, 2014

It's so funny that certain someone attempt to bash and drag Yuzuru costume style in every threat, saying the same point over and over again, I really don't see any valid reason to do this kind of thing apart from being pathetic or obsession with what he/she perceived as masculinity.

Anyhow, It should be noted that masculinity/ femininity is various by culture, what one perceived as feminine in one own view might be average masculine from other point of view. Although there is absolutely nothing wrong either if men want to display femininity or vice versa.

drivingmissdaisy · Jan 31, 2014

treeloving said:
Anyhow, It should be noted that masculinity/ femininity is various by culture, what one perceived as feminine in one own view might be average masculine from other point of view. Although there is absolutely nothing wrong either if men want to display femininity or vice versa.

I agree, but fans are not at fault if they have personal preferences either. When your break the mold you have to be willing to accept that some people will love it and some people will hate it. People who don't like watching feminine male programs aren't "haters". Boitano proved you can be gay but also have a powerful masculine presence on the ice.

Buttercup · Feb 1, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
There is nothing wrong with it, but I have to admit sometimes I don't enjoy programs as much when the men are overly feminine in their presentation. As a judge I wouldn't mark them down. However, as a fan of dance I do prefer watching a strong male presence on the ice, rather than a man who skates like a woman but with better jumps.

It's fine not to enjoy certain skating and performance styles. It is not fine to pass judgment about so-called effeminate skaters or to claim that there is something wrong with what they're doing, which is what wallylutz was doing (with a side of Hanyu bashing, as usual).

I'd rather each skater skates in the way that most appeals to them and suits their style and skill. I've enjoyed both athletic and artistic skaters (to use less loaded terms) and some skaters, IMO, combine both. I don't want men, ladies, pairs or dance teams pigeon-holed into specific styles and approaches.

chloepoco · Feb 1, 2014

Buttercup said:
It's fine not to enjoy certain skating and performance styles. It is not fine to pass judgment about so-called effeminate skaters or to claim that there is something wrong with what they're doing, which is what wallylutz was doing (with a side of Hanyu bashing, as usual).

I'd rather each skater skates in the way that most appeals to them and suits their style and skill. I've enjoyed both athletic and artistic skaters (to use less loaded terms) and some skaters, IMO, combine both. I don't want men, ladies, pairs or dance teams pigeon-holed into specific styles and approaches.

ITA; and very nicely stated!

qwertyskates · Feb 1, 2014

If it were up to me. every skater, male/female/heterosexual/gay should skate in all black bodysuits, that's it. I want to see the focus on their skating, I don't care about sexual orientation, I hate costumes and styles that are distracting.

Olympia · Feb 1, 2014

I love when guys skate in some variation of street clothes, such as jeans and a tee-shirt, as many of the pro skaters do. (Paul Martini in ripped jeans...sigh.) One of the most effective competitive skating outfits ever was the business shirt with rolled-up sleeves, pants and tie that Paul Duchesnay wore in "Missing." Who needs magenta or sequins? In fact, at the end of the routine, the camera briefly focused on one of my favorite couples ever, Klimova and Ponomarenko, waiting their turn to take to the ice, and that exquisite duo actually looked fussy and overdone by comparison in their stagey costumes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coM4d1CQZfs

Matilda · Feb 1, 2014

I love skating costumes and to me they are a big part of the overall package, both for men and for women. For example, Charlie White was wearing a turquoise blue top for the FS in the beginning of the season, and the color was just wrong for the character he is portraying in the program. The current purple one works a lot better, and adds to the intensity of the program. Some skaters have said they couldn't care less what they wear for the program, while for others the costume is an integral part of their vision of the program as a whole. I don't care how sparkly or plain a skater's costume is (although I love me some sparkle on both men and women!). If it's what the skater wants to wear and it helps them step into a character, I say go for it! Of course we as spectators can express our opinion of it, but I would never want to any judge or official to interfere with costuming (as long as it's not indecent).

Gender expression is still largely judged based on the normative stereotypes of what the society conceives as "masculine" or "feminine". As another poster pointed out, however, those norms are not static. A few hundred years ago long hair, heels, and tights were common in men. In general, I believe that people would get a lot more comfortable with perceived gender ambiguity if it was more visible--and figure skating could be paving the way, instead of being stuck in the 1950's gender norms. The current rules for costumes, for example, are really quite ridiculous. Why on earth can't men, for example, wear tights and sleeveless shirts in competition? How would this costume be considered indecent or offensive? http://i.flamber.ru/files/st1/1224437189/1299620493_o.jpg Time to move to the 21st century already!

Newsweek article: 'The Frozen Closet'

Dr. Jenn

Matilda

wallylutz

MalloryArcher

Buttercup

chloepoco

CanadianSkaterGuy

Buttercup

Dr. Jenn

flipsydoodle

drivingmissdaisy

skateluvr

Olympia

treeloving

drivingmissdaisy

Buttercup

chloepoco

qwertyskates

Olympia

Matilda

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