New book-"The Second Mark"

76olympics · Mar 6, 2004

I saw this and had to get it-I am a sucker for any skating book I can find. It is about the pairs at the 2002 Olympics-Russian, Canadian and Chinese. It is startlingly personal and really good reading. I am not a skater myself-just a general fan-so I don't know how it rates when read by someone in the sport--but I enjoyed it.

It certainly gives an arresting and melancholic portrait of Elena B. and gives a lot more detail about the Chinese pairs' history than I have ever seen before. The author appears to have done a lot of interviews-with parents, the skaters and others. The retelling of the actual Olympics-strangely enough, is not the element that stays with you . I thought the individual skater portraits, backgrounds, and follow-ups were far more compelling than the the author's take on the controversy to me. (that part seemed a little watered down and cautious)

Has anyone else picked this up?

BTW-I have emerged from long lurking! My screen name stems from the fact that the 76 Olympics are the first that I watched and really enjoyed. (yep-I am 40!)

mpal2 · Mar 6, 2004

I read bits and pieces of it at Barnes & Noble. I read up on Elena because it was the first background part I came to. I found it interesting that both Elena and Anton were not interested in skating but did it because they were told to. It makes me wonder if Elena has ever liked skating. I remember an interview where they asked if she would ever teach her kids to skate. She instantly and emphatically said no. I knew she had it tough, but this book really explains why.

I would have loved to buy it, but I would like to wait for it to come in as a paperback. I'll have to check Amazon to see if they have it.
I can't wait to read up on the Chinese team.

dlkksk8fan · Mar 6, 2004

I just got the book, but haven't read any of it yet.

Koroleva · Mar 7, 2004

mpal2 said:
I read bits and pieces of it at Barnes & Noble. I read up on Elena because it was the first background part I came to. I found it interesting that both Elena and Anton were not interested in skating but did it because they were told to. It makes me wonder if Elena has ever liked skating. I remember an interview where they asked if she would ever teach her kids to skate. She instantly and emphatically said no. I knew she had it tough, but this book really explains why.

I would have loved to buy it, but I would like to wait for it to come in as a paperback. I'll have to check Amazon to see if they have it.
I can't wait to read up on the Chinese team.

I do not believe that they do not enjoy skating just because they were made to skate as a child. If they didn't enjoy it why would they still be doing it? She was told that she could never skate again yet she re-learned how to do so. I do not think she does not like skating.

Elena said that she did not want her children to skate but not because she doesn't like skating. She said this because she believes it is a very dangerous sport. After such a dramatic accident I think she has every right to believe so and I agree it is a dangerous sport.

heyang · Mar 7, 2004

Welcome to the board 76 Olympics. BTW, I'll be 40 later this year, but my 1st memorable winter Oly's was 1980.

I'll have to look for this book. Sounds like it might be interesting.

With regard to Elena's 'hating' skating, there are a lot of people who are working to jobs they 'hate'. Unfortunately, not everyone can earn a living doing a 'passion', but most can earn a living doing something that they are more than competent at with great success. The 'hate'really applies to the personal contentment and satisfaction. I'm sure she loves skating, but she doesn't seem the type to enjoy competing. Unfortunately, skating's a catch-22 in that it's difficult to a make a living without having won some competitions.

Spirit · Mar 7, 2004

Here are the reviews on Amazon.

Thanks for posting this. I had not heard of this book, but it sounds like it's just the sort of book I like.

dizzydi · Mar 8, 2004

"The Second Mark"

I found the comment about Elena interesting. It's easy for me to buy the theory that she doesn't particularly like skaing. Perhaps it's a matter of Elena wouldn't have chosen a skating career if given a choice. To me, Elena has never looked happy skating. She shows no joy in it. Perhaps it's just her personality and not a true reflection of how she feels. It's hard for fans to believe that someone who is so good at what she does, doesn't really like it---but possible nevertheless.

Dizzy

Joesitz (RIP) · Mar 8, 2004

The reviews are good and apparently the text is not showing any kind of favoritsm. Maybe I'll read it on the way to Dortmund.

Joe

soogar · Mar 8, 2004

Maybe Elena just hates pair skating b/c she's always being dropped (even by Anton). She might not have had much of choice what discipline she wanted to skate in , she might have preferred singles or ice dance. Also I think that B&S had a lot of pressure to continue to compete b/c the Russians weren't as deep in pairs when they skated as when G&G skated and that may have contributed to her dislike of the sport.

guinevere · Mar 8, 2004

There's also a big difference between "not loving" something and hating it. I think it's very plausible that Elena was told to start skating, and that she stuck with it because had a real gift for it, rather than a burning passion. I have a hard time believing Elena would have had the fire to make it to an OGM, and before that, to come back from such a devastating skating injury, if she absolutely hated it, though.

ps Welcome 76olympics! Thanks for the info on the book!

guinevere

Ptichka · Mar 8, 2004

Lots of skaters hated it at one point or another. Katya recalls that Sergei used to feel that way. It always seemed to me that Elena is a rather shy and private person, and doesn't like being in the spotlight. Plus, she's had more than her share of on-ice abuse. From what I've read, it went back to when she was coached by Ruchkina, certainly through her time with Shlyakov, and from what I understand Anton tends to be rather verbally abusive.

mpal2 · Mar 8, 2004

I wanted to clarify. I was particularly referring to Elena's skating career before Anton. Based on the book, she did skating as a child because her mom and the federation told her to skate. At one point her mother was ill and she didn't want to bother her mom so she smiled only on the outside.

Then Sliakov pretty much did everything he could to kill her. If she made mistakes in practice, he hit her. If she talked to anyone else but him, he hit her. When they first started training with Tamara, Elena had been living off of yogurts because Oleg locked her in the apartment without food.

It's been a few days since I read parts of this book, but I'm pretty sure I can accurately quote this next part. It was a very chilling statement about the time Elena and Sliakov skated for the Latvia. They had to share an apartment because of money. According to the book, this is where Oleg says "they began the romantic phase of their relationship. Elena will never call it that."

I don't see how anyone can love skating in that kind of environment.

Also, Anton wanted to quit skating until he met Elena (according to the book) then he pretty much threw himself back into skating so he could save Elena. The author didn't go into great detail, but I'm sure that Sliakov would have killed her at some point. I think the only reason why she is alive is because of Tamara Moskvina and Anton. .Edited: We know he almost killed her by hitting her in the head with his skate blade, but I'm quite sure he would have beaten her to death if Anton hadn't run off to save her.

In fact, when Elena was in the hospital from the brain injury, everyone else was wondering if she would live. Sliakov would go into her room and yell at her to get up and go back to skating. She couldn't speak and she was partially paralyzed. All he would do is scream and yell at her.

I didn't get a chance to read anything about Elena and Anton as a pair. I ran out of time.

So no, I don't believe Elena loved skating. If she has developed any kind of love for it, you can thank Tamara or Anton

Gwendolyn · Mar 8, 2004

mpal2 said:
It's been a few days since I read parts of this book, but I'm pretty sure I can accurately quote this next part. It was a very chilling statement about the time Elena and Sliakov skated for the Latvia. They had to share an apartment because of money. According to the book, this is where Oleg says "they began the romantic phase of their relationship. Elena will never call it that."

OH MY GOD. :eek:

I'd never thought of that. I knew he treated her terribly but that is just wrong on so many levels.... I can't believe they let him get away with that for so long.

There was a discussion on another website about B&S comparisons to G&G and how Elena doesn't have that "joy" in her face like Katia did.... and after reading this I can see why. My god, the poor girl!!!

Also, I always thought Anton just had a temper but wasn't verbally abusive?

Ladskater · Mar 8, 2004

The great Barbara Ann Scott once said she started to hate figure skating, but it was not really skating she hated, but competing. It was her mother her pushed her. I think when most skaters make this statement "I hate skating" they are talking mainly about competing. One can see the joy they exude when they skate. The competitive life is a grind.

Koroleva · Mar 8, 2004

Ptichka said:
Lots of skaters hated it at one point or another. Katya recalls that Sergei used to feel that way. It always seemed to me that Elena is a rather shy and private person, and doesn't like being in the spotlight. Plus, she's had more than her share of on-ice abuse. From what I've read, it went back to when she was coached by Ruchkina, certainly through her time with Shlyakov, and from what I understand Anton tends to be rather verbally abusive.

Anton has NEVER been abusive to Elena.

Koroleva · Mar 9, 2004

OH look how upset she is skating.

Really people please listen. This amazing woman has come back from a near death experience and from the help of her partner she went against doctors orders and tried to skate again. Together they worked on everything from skating to her speech as she began to be well again. This is something she wanted to do, she wanted to skate again and mostly with Anton. They never wanted to just skate for the gold medals they skated for themselves and for each other. Would she have never loved skating then why did she come back after so much and not give up only to skate again and not only just skate but come back to be an Olympic Champion? Elena and Anton have never had it easy but they have always been by each other's side and have tried their best. Considering they are one of the best pairs skaters in the World, and one of the best pairs ever (if not the best

Well that's my opinion.) then why does she hate skating so much and keep doing it?

If that made no sense I'm sorry, this subject just worries me that some people are trying to spread untrue rumors here.

Thank you for clearing this up mpal. I don't think she did like skating with Oleg but then who would. He is a very scary man. Although she has forgiven him which tells you something about her kind character.

However, her relationship with Anton is certainly MUCH MUCH better, I mean they even loved each other, he helped save her in many ways and she being so strong saved him somewhat herself... So with the picture I posted and with what I said... I clearly don't think she doesn't like skating.

mpal2 · Mar 9, 2004

Koroleva,

I agree that Elena wanted to come back to skating. I did not mean to imply that she has never loved skating at all. Based on the book, her early skating years were miserable. I think she at first was very homesick and missed her mother and then Oleg (which can go without further explanation). All I can say is thank heavens that Anton and Tamara were there for her. Elena and Anton are a lovely pair and I have loved watching their skating.

hockeyfan228 · Mar 9, 2004

According to one of Christine Brennan's books -- I believe the first -- Sikuharlidze showed his temper when he first started to skate with Berezhnaia, and Moskvina had Dmitriev take him under his wing, to show by example how a partner should be treated. This is not to say that he was anywhere as abusive as the lout Shlyakov. But people's lives rarely reflect the Hallmark movie version of romantic love.

dmr65 · Mar 10, 2004

Recently after Artur's show in St. Petersburg they were asked about their relationship now. Anton sheepishly let Lena answer the question.. She had some very tender sweet defending words to say about Anton, opposite of who they made him out to be.. This is on film.

A few yrs ago Lifetime did a long 30 min fluff on Lena & Anton. Lena was sitting before the camera talking about Anton.. She said, Anton was the one who made her feel and know that she was a worthy human being after Oleg, and even after they became pair skaters.. She stated, she felt free and could do anything she wanted, because it was Anton who showed her the way..

Wish someone could sit them down and talk to them and let them talk , verbatim

This book I felt was being fair, left no bad judgement on anyone, and never printed faults.. Oleg was just a known fact, other than that, it was a giving us a glance at who these people are, what life was like before the SLC and leading into it, and not dig into anyones secrets .

Denise

treeskater · Mar 11, 2004

I know many of you are caught up in the Lena/Anton story, but did any of you think about the Chinese and Russian country conditions and how their sports figures were selected and treated?
Even Canada had a different system than what we are used to in the USA.

I truly enjoyed the depth of the historical picture the author provided - all those personal interviews! I just finished the book last night and read the notes at the back of the book too.

Of all their stories, I have the highest regard for the Chinese couple for their grit and perserverence and for their coaches for setting long term goals in spite of being laughed at initially. I can't imagine our USA skaters having such personal strength. The last time our NGB worked so hard was right after the '61 crash.....

New book-"The Second Mark"

76olympics

mpal2

dlkksk8fan

Koroleva

heyang

Spirit

dizzydi

Joesitz (RIP)

soogar

guinevere

Ptichka

Forum translator

mpal2

Gwendolyn

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

Koroleva

Koroleva

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