After Volosozhar/Trankov's skate:
2014 Olympics Team Event Pairs Short Program
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- Dec 21, 2011
A guy I work with today said about V/T (who he never saw before last night) WITHOUT IRONY
"At first I was like why is she wearing that blue dress and he is a soldier? But then I saw it. She is the wood fairy and she's come to console the army and lead them to victory."
I was like ARE you high?
"At first I was like why is she wearing that blue dress and he is a soldier? But then I saw it. She is the wood fairy and she's come to console the army and lead them to victory."
I was like ARE you high?
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2011
Gotta love those comments from people who only watch skating every four years. That's part of the fun of the Olympics.
Eric's coach would've been proud. A lovely tribute.
Smile. I feel silly commenting when NBC only showed the top two, the Japanese, & the Americans. (How can you SKIP the Chinese team in a pairs event?! How?!). But here goes:
V&T--Wow! Well they were on here, and that is as strong as I have seen them. I still think he's a headcase & it will be a miracle if he skates clean in both the pairs short & the long, but these two certainly did their job here. If Russia wins the gold for the team, V&T will have earned their share of it.
D&R--Also, the best I have seen them skate all year. Giving them some of my "good competitor" points. (Must Sandra go on and on about how deep and beautiful this program is? It makes me cringe to see this poor girl in lavender. They are strong TECHNICALLY. If you want to be over-the-top, at least give them the credit where it really belongs).
P&Z--Oh, yes! We didn't get to SEE this so I can't comment on it. (Going searching for it online in a moment).
B&H--Same story.
C&S--Yep, I'll take that for team U.S.A. I like this program. It's a little quirky & different. Sorry about the jumps, but realistically speaking, this is probably as high as they could have finished skating clean. Therefore, well done.
The Japanese--Wow! Nothing spectacular, of course; but two spots higher than they could have anticipated. Good for team Japan.
Note: Won't it be strange if, in the long, Canada beats Russia in the pairs & Russia beats Canada in the men's? But considering the projected competitors, it's pretty realistic.
V&T--Wow! Well they were on here, and that is as strong as I have seen them. I still think he's a headcase & it will be a miracle if he skates clean in both the pairs short & the long, but these two certainly did their job here. If Russia wins the gold for the team, V&T will have earned their share of it.
D&R--Also, the best I have seen them skate all year. Giving them some of my "good competitor" points. (Must Sandra go on and on about how deep and beautiful this program is? It makes me cringe to see this poor girl in lavender. They are strong TECHNICALLY. If you want to be over-the-top, at least give them the credit where it really belongs).
P&Z--Oh, yes! We didn't get to SEE this so I can't comment on it. (Going searching for it online in a moment).
B&H--Same story.
C&S--Yep, I'll take that for team U.S.A. I like this program. It's a little quirky & different. Sorry about the jumps, but realistically speaking, this is probably as high as they could have finished skating clean. Therefore, well done.
The Japanese--Wow! Nothing spectacular, of course; but two spots higher than they could have anticipated. Good for team Japan.
Note: Won't it be strange if, in the long, Canada beats Russia in the pairs & Russia beats Canada in the men's? But considering the projected competitors, it's pretty realistic.
I just hope that they stay together long enough to be a good team. Part of our "pairs" problem is not staying together long enough.
One of the reasons the U.S.A. has improved so much in ice dance is because our teams are together for so long -- both Belbin/Agosto and Davis/White were training for a long time together. That had never really happened before (except for Punsalan/Swallow, of course). Of course they are also very talented, but it does take time for teams to mesh.
The last pairs team for the U.S. that stayed together for a long time was Meno/Sand (of course they were married) and they got better and better.
Castelli/Shnapir had a lot of ups and downs and for a while it seemed - to me at least - that they weren't going anywhere. But they bounced back, improved their presentation massively and convincingly won US Nationals. So I would think that after all this, they are planning to stick together. 
On a side note, I think it was an atrocious decision of USFSA to send Z/B instead of D/C. D/C could have skated one of the segments with similar or even better scores than C/S and both teams would be fresh for their programs. Instead, putting Z/B on the team basically forces C/S to skate both because Z/B would pretty much ruin any chances of US getting a medal in the team event. D/C could also de reasonable well in the individual event, ( top 10) whereas Z/B would be one of the lowest scoring pairs on the event. If all three teams skate clean, C/S would get like (68+132=200), D/C like (67+128=195), and Z/B (60+114=174). More likely C/S would get like 63+119=182, D/C about the same, Z/B 55+105=160. Z/B are at such a serious disadvantage because of their PCS, the can only get 25/50 PCS even if they skate clean, whereas the other 2 teams can get 30/60 PCS if they skate clean. Clearly, the top two pairs are C/S and D/C; both have good chances at finishing top 10. Z/B on the other hand, would be one of the worst pairs in the competition. These results were demonstrated in Skate America this year, where all three teams competed. In the SP C/S and D/C got around 62 with major mistakes (C/S fall on jump, D/C doubled jump) while Z/B got 55 with a similar mistake. In the FS, D/C got 120 even with a few minor mistakes (no major mistakes) while C/S got 114/115 with a double sbs jump and wobbly stepouts on both throws (they attempted quad though) Z/B skated clean, yet still only got 112/113. Clearly, Z/B have no chance of beating the other 2. Even at Nats, I believe if it was an international panel Z/B would have finished third or worse-an international panel would probably give them far less components than Castelli/Shnapir, Denney/Coughlin, and even Scimeca/Knierim, Denney/Fraizer. Just a note, this could actually have an affect on the team competition.
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- Jun 16, 2010
I think the U.S were always going to have the National Champions skate both programs for the pairs. That is a good thing. Would you actually want Abbott to be skating both programs (which is what would have happened had they used 2 pairs).
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Not to mention, a much better strategy for the team event would have C&S doing the SP and D&C doing the LP.
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- Jun 16, 2010
and then to be stuck with Abbott doing both programs. No thanks.
No, I would want Brown skating both programs.
Well that was never going to happen, and you know that, so put aside that idea instantly. Abbott was always going to skate the short, and the U.S had already decided Wagner was doing the short, so unless they chucked Gold from the event altogether (which was never going to happen) it would either be have Abbott do the long also even after his short debacle or no 2nd pair.
I do not understand your argument at all. What does Jason brown skating 1 or 2 programs have anything to do with having two pairs skate?
D/C should have been chosen so there could be different pairs skating both programs (I recommend C/S short, D/C long) Just in case one pair had issues/emergencies/were not feeing well/were not skating well the other pair could fill in. Now, if Z/B "fill in" for C/S U'S medal chances are over.
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- Jun 16, 2010
Every team can only make two substitutions. So lets say C&S and D&C were both here and the original plan was for D&C to do the long. Well what do you do now after Abbott's horrendous short program. Wagner is already officially penciled to do the womens short. You either:
1. Take Gold out from the womens event entirely, by not substituting her for Wagner to do the womens long (never going to happen).
2. Put Abbott out for the mens long too even after his short program performance, rather than substituting Brown (horrible idea).
3. Have C&S do the 2nd program as well.
At this point whichever pair did the first program for the U.S was always going to the 2nd, whether that was the original plan or not.
Well the obvious solution is to have Brown skate both programs. He could lock up a low-80s in the short and a mid 150s in the free, locking up like 6-7 points in the short and the free at least, totaling like 13 points (at the very least). With Abbot skating the short, the US has automatically lost 2-3 points. This goes to show that the decision of Z/B in the pairs has also indirectly led to the demise of the men, and thus have a even larger effect on the US team. That 2-3 points could really be te difference between 3rd and 4th.
The other two solutions really wouldn't have much of a negative effect on the team either. Its not like Wagner is that much worse than Gold. It might actually be beneficial to the team .
If the US had to choose one man to skate both programs, im pretty sure Brown would have been chosen.
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- Jun 16, 2010
Brown was NEVER skating both programs. Like it or not Abbott was always going to skate the short atleast, and there is no way to go back in time and have Brown skate the short instead after seeing what happened. So that is not an idea based on reality, just fantasy. If you honestly think Brown was ever going to be picked to skate both programs here and the only reason he wasnt is because Z&B werent here then well
Based on realism that doesnt include a time machine there is no way they were ever using 2 pairs after Abbott blew the short, and Wagner was already officially entered to do the ladies short.
PS- a team doesnt even have to use their 2 substitutions, that is only an option. They can use only 1 or even 0, but jus not 3. So even if the crazy idea that the U.S was ever going to initially plan on leaving National Champion Abbott entirely out of the team event for a skater they bypassed for Worlds for the Nationals 3rd place finisher was realistic, the fact they didnt use Brown in the short means they werent ever going to. They wouldnt have not used Brown for the short or possibly for both programs, simply because they were now only using 1 pair, so had an extra substitution option. Had they wanted to use only 1 pair, 1 man, and 1 dance team, they would still have done so.
But even so I still don't think it was a good idea to send Z/B.
Are you really advocating that Z/B should have been chosen over D/C. If the judges were international, D/C would have beat Z/B in a landslide.
And if it were up to me, I would have put brown both programs before the mens sp even started.
Are you really advocating that Z/B should have been chosen over D/C. If the judges were international, D/C would have beat Z/B in a landslide.
And if it were up to me, I would have put brown both programs before the mens sp even started.
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- Jun 16, 2010
I agree on leaving Abbott out based on his international record, but the truth of the matter is the National Champion wasnt going to be left out of the team event in any event given the way the U.S does things. Now Russia left their National ladies Champion completely out of the womens event, but they had a bigger event than Nationals soon after (Europeans), and Russia has different philosophies on such matters anyway.
I am fine with Z&B here. Look at all the controversy sending Wagner caused, so just imagine sending D&C as well over someone who beat them at Nationals, when their record is nowhere near Wagner's. It would have been nice to see D&C get an extra point at Nationals to be 2nd and come here instead, but as the National results turned out the USFSA would have really been playing with fire to make that switch.
They could have easily used Z&B over C&S in the LP anyway. They have actually done better than C&S in the LP this season. C&S have done better in the SP than both D&C and Z&B all season, but the weakest of the three in the LP. That they arent making the switch when they could have easily done so just shows they wanted to use all 4 singles entries and that is the main reason they arent.
I think you are overestimating the potential change in the pair rankings anyway. None of the U.S pairs are ever going to finish above Russia, China, Canada, or Italy in the first round and probably Russia, Canada, Italy in the second round. The 5th team in the team finals is probably going to be Japan and Z&B would even probably have beaten them. So using them in the 2nd round vs another U.S pair (C&S or D&C) really makes absolutely no difference in all likelihood. 1st round would be dicier with Z&B in danger to get a much lower result than C&S or D&C but they were never going to be used there anyway (nor D&C had they been here, C&S were always doing the short).
As for the individual event, who cares, they were all going to get a pretty so so result at best.
Agreed, but all Coughlin had to do was *one* double toe in the LP and they would be in Sochi. At least Worlds will be a small consolation prize.
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