Why is Sarah H so unpopular with so many?

Soogar brings up a good point in suggesting that the OGM winner should go to Worlds if for no other reason than to place well and give up-and-coming younger skaters the opportunity to go the next year.

The OGM winners are certainly not *obligated* to do this, but I feel they ought to. Most skaters depend heavily on the federation's support on their way up. Why can't they give a little back once they've reached the top? I remember how sorry I felt for MK at Worlds in 1994, carrying all the pressure of the U.S. ladies program on her 13-year-old shoulders. (The fact that she handled it and skated as well as she did was one of the first indications that MK was special.)

I also agree with mpal that skaters who truly have that competitive spirit will want to skate at Worlds and have the opportunity to compete and win again.

As you can tell, I have strong feelings about this issue.

Soogar, I apologize for my post three lines up. Something about my girl MK just drives common sense and common courtesy out of my mind sometimes. Sorry.

About Katarina Witt being a tough competitor, of course she was. But you can't prove it by her performance at the 1988 Olympics. She put out a so-so performance, was lucky enough that Debi Thomas did even worse, and she won the gold medal only because the winner of the long program and the star of the event (Liz Manley) was too far behind after the short. Well, good for her. I guess.

For some reason I can't really stir myself up to get mad over whether skaters do or do not choose to compete further after an Olympic win. They don't owe me anything. Their federation got its money's worth when they brought home the medals. It's their life.

Mathman

While Nancy did not do well in 93 at Worlds, she wasn't the only US lady there. The other two didn't fare so well either. I think it is a bit unfair to say that her ..I will use the word "poor".. performance" in any way was just cause for the whack. Isn't that implying that if Nancy had done well in 93 Tonya may not have been desperate enough to become involved in a crime?

Also, MK broke the top ten in 94 ensuring the US ladies two spots for the 95 Worlds, not three.

Nancy went to worlds with Tonya Kwiatkowski and Lisa Earvin. Both did not have international experience at Worlds. Having been an Olympic and previous World's medalist, Nancy should have been in the medals. Instead she skated her usual crappy way and without everyone wiping up the ice to help her out, wound up finishing 5th.

The US put her on the Olympic team even though she was a dreadful skater in previous years. I don't begrudge them for doing that b/c she wound up skating the performance of her life, yet I think she was obligated to go to Worlds to secure the 3 spots that year. She wasn't injured b/c she skated well at the Olympics and it was the least she could do to help out the USFSA. I think she was extremely selfish.

Nance is the only other skater after the the 2002 Olympic pairs that I can understand skipping Worlds after all the crap that went on before. It's not like Nancy had the "normal" stresses that skaters would go through of Nationals, Olympics then Worlds. She had one continuous media circus to deal with. If you don't think that's enough of a reason, I would like to see how you deal with a media feeding frenzy when you are the focus.

She would have had to deal with a media circus anyway regardless of whether she went to Worlds or not. It wasn't as if she hid away after the games to get away from it all. She was out there promoting herself and making the money. Maybe in between all that self promotion and going to Disney etc, she could have made a little time to qualify 3 spots for the ladies team. I know she had benefitted in previous year from Jill Trenary winning a medal in worlds so they could send that 3rd lady in 1991 who happened to be Nancy. She could pass that on to some other skater.

I think people don't like Sarah for a lot of reasons, but mostly I think they don't like her because her win in Salt Lake was sort of a fluke. The other skaters had to falter in order for her to win. (I still love her as a skater, she brings a lot to the ice). But she is one that came in and won then stepped out, she had never won anything major before. So I think that was very surprising for many. She isn't one that people had expected to win. All the same whatever her choices are now or whenever they are up to her and she was a great competitor from the start.

soogar said:

The US put her on the Olympic team even though she was a dreadful skater in previous years.

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Nancy won 2 competitions that season prior to the Olympic trials, and defeated Chen Lu, Surya Bonaly, Josee Chouinard, Yuka Sato and Tanja S at Piruetten. She also was skating well at Nationals. Nancy was clearly in better shape to compete that year than she had been in previous years and everyone who was there noticed it.

She certainly had the best shot at a medal out of all the contenders there which is why she was sent, although I'm sure the circumstances around the horrible attack at nationals affected their decisions.

I think people forget how absolutely insane things were surrounding Nancy at the Olympics. She really thought the mob surrounding her was unfortunately distracting from all the other skating going on. It was a bit of a nuisance, and it would have been that way when she went to Worlds as well. We ended up doing fine, so I'm not sure what the big deal is 10 years later.

soogar said:

Mathman: I'm not personally bitter at all , but when I hear how tough a competitor MK is, I personally don't agree. Katarina Witt was a tough as nails competitor as was Tara to a lesser extent in terms of skating well as the favorite

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When Kat went to '88 Worlds she only landed 2 triples in the LP. She did not skate well at all, worse than in Calgary, but did end up with gold. Kat didn't even win the LP in Calgary, and some would have put her 3rd behind Manley & Ito. She had some very impressive seasons, but '88 wasn't one of her better ones to me, unfortunately.

never mind

Katarina skated much better at Worlds than she did at the Olympics (I don't have videotape of this so I'm just relying on memory). I remember that Liz Manley and Ito both had errors in their long program at the Worlds that year and Katarina's performance of her program was much better.

88 Olympics had compulsory figures so Kat had a lead over Ito and Manley anyway. She didn't have to skate an all out performance to win, she needed to stay on her feet to put the pressure in Debi Thomas. Plus back then , ladies weren't doing all those triple jumps, I think 5 or 6 was what Debi had planned and Kat routinely did 4-5 in competition except for 87 Worlds when she tried a 6 triple to everyone's surprise and two footed it.

OT, actually Katarina skated MUCH better in the Calgary Olympics then she did at '88 Worlds. She was very solid in Calgary, landing 4 triples. As Verbalgirl said, at Budapest ('88 Worlds) Kat landed a meager 2(!!) triples. Liz Manley skated a much better LP but because Liz bombed out in the SP Kat didn't have to do much. Debi bombed the LP again, handing the title to Kat. But Kat's skate at '88 Worlds was uninspired. I don't know how Kat was in first after the figures in Budapest considering how bad of a school figures skater she was.

There are a couple of reason why people were annoyed that Sarah didn't go to 2002 Worlds. First, Sarah said in an interview at SLC that she was definitely going to go to Worlds to "represent my country". Then she waited until two weeks before Worlds to decide she wasn't going to go because she was "too tired" after appearing on TV, opening the Stock Exchange, going to the Oscars, etc. The US then asked Angela Nikodinov, who had to decline because of an injury, then Jenny Kirk went (but dropped out after the SP due to an injury).

We didn't know until about a week before who WAS actually going to go to Worlds.

Then Sarah competed in 2003 and obviously was not eager to do so. Her lackluster performances at 2003 Worlds followed by her 8th place (of 8 skaters) at the Spring cheesefest weren't the best way for her to exit eligible skating. The overweight, struggling Sarah finishing well behind skaters she beat at SLC was the last image the public had of her.

Sarah and 2002 World's

I personally don't fault Sarah at all for changing her mind about 2002 World's. (nor would I fault any skater for that - the final decisions are theirs to make IMHO) In Sarah's case, I think a changing mind is even more understandable.

Sarah certainly won the day deservedly in my opinion. But it wasn't expected - she wasn't among the Gold favorites going in. Also, she had never won a similar title like World Champion before. So given her unexpected victory, and her first of this caliber at that, I suspect she had no idea at the time how her life and schedule would change when she suddenly became an Olympic Champion.

I do not fault her at all for reveling in the glory of that moment. Going on the talk shows, doing the interviews, participating in everything celebratory that an Olympic Champion deserves. Personally, I would have done the same thing. Is it surprising that her training went to the side?

I have the impression that Sarah always had life ambitions beyond skating. So once the dust settled, it didn't surprise me either that after winning the Big One in skating, she chose to focus on her other life ambitions. I dont' know her and can't say for sure, but I bet it was tough for her to sort all this out in her head - hence trying to balance her skating expectations and other life goals and time to figure out her own priorities.

That must have been quite an experience since it was really unexpected.

DG

Maybe that's why I thought Kat's program was better at Worlds than Olympics b/c she didn't do as many triples and was able to sell it better. At the Olympics, you could definitely see the pressure on Kat's skating. She didn't have the technical skills that the other skaters had so she had to land every jump b/c if she fell, she wouldn't have had the technical content. One thing I do remember at Worlds was that Liz and Midori both had messy LP with lots of little errors that took away from the program. They may have landed more jumps that Kat, but I think that back in those days judges really looked at the whole program. Katarina had the cleanest looking program at Worlds and that's probably why she won.

But Katarina did go to Worlds after her win to compete in another showdown with Debi as did all the other Gold medalists.

Here's a reason why I think we have seen and will see fewer OGMs going to Worlds than prior to '94: The Grand Prix series plus the ISU cheesefests. Prior to '94, skaters had, in an Olympic year, Nationals, the Olympics, and Worlds. Now, if I'm counting correctly, they have three ISU cheesefests, two or three Grand Prix events, four if they make the GPF, Euros for sure for European/Russian skaters, 4CC perhaps in the future for US, Canada, Asia, etc., plus any pro-am events they might want to enter. So for a skater who participates in the GP series and whom the ISU wants at their cheesefests, that's at least six events prior to the Olympics. If a skater does everything and wins the OGM, that can be nine events prior to Worlds.

This increase in number of events has come with prize money and allowed skaters to remain eligible longer, but it's also come when the technical demands on skaters are higher. I think skaters used to skip Worlds once they had the OGM because they wanted to turn pro and make some money. I think now skaters skip worlds after the Olympics because they're beat. Plus then there's ANOTHER ISU cheesefest after Worlds. The skating season now starts too early and goes on too long. We've seen some major skaters go down with injuries and with demands like this, I think we are going to see more.

Personally, I like the GP series because it gives younger or less experienced skaters an opportunity to get out in front of international judges and also to just get the competitive experience. But I think that if you're winning, two events is enough and that the ISU should allow all events to count toward GPF points instead of having one be the nonscoring event. That way, if a skater wins his first two GP events, he can skip the third and still know he's going to the finals. Those on the bubble could still do three events, but the whole point value thing would have to be reworked.

What I could definitely do without are the cheesefests. These are contracts between the networks and the ISU to make money. They mean nothing in terms of skating. Since '94, the skating season has had increasingly more eligible events. It's great for prize money, but mostly the big money-making skaters keep winning them. Since '02/03, the skating season has started too early and ended too late. It's too much.
Rgirl

I don't think I agree with the argument that skaters are too exhausted to go to Worlds after the Olympics. Nor do I agree that the skating season has too many events.

I mean, for goodness sake, NBA players participate in 82 games or more a season, traveling all the time. Tennis players play in who knows how many tournaments a season--at least 20--under much tougher conditions than skaters face (extreme heat and sun, multi-hour matches). And baseball players play even more games than NBA players, also while traveling.

If anything, skaters have it quite easy compared to athletes at the elite level in other sports.

I will agree that the skating season is too long--I see no reason to stretch it out from September to April. But I do not agree that there are too many events.

And anyhow, if skaters do feel overworked, they have the option of scaling back their Grand Prix events from 3 to 2, not participating in the cheesefests (esp. if they're non-US skaters), or not doing the Tom Collins tour. Any of those options are, in my opinion, better than skipping Worlds.

I do agree that the cheesefests serve no real purpose. Although I actually have tickets to the post-Worlds cheesefest in Rhode Island and am looking forward to it, I'd also be the first to admit the event could be dropped from the schedule and not do anyone any harm.

Edited to add: I agree with what Eyria said, except I really like the cheesefests, and I do think that they add something of value to the figure skating season.

The following is what I wrote before I read Eyria's response:

I disagree about the cheesefests, Rgirl. There's nothing wrong with making money, whether you are a performer or the ISU. Plus, the public gets to see their favorites in a venue that is more for fun than for nail-biting competition (such as the International Figure Skating challenge in Detroit, LOL.) Then, too, if your take on the Grand Prix is the right one -- that it's purpose is to allow younger and less experienced skaters to be seen by the judges -- then the top people could skip this series, as Michelle and others have chosen to do lately.

But I hope they don't (skip the GP, that is). I would rather see the GP built up to a really big deal, like a regular season championship in sports that have a play-off system for the ultimate championship after the regular season is over. Unfortunately, this requires that big bucks be poured into it, at the very time that figure skating is enduring a period of economic contraction.

Maybe if I were a trained skater myself I would feel differently, but I just can't bring myself to feel sorry for athletes who are called upon to compete 6 or 7 times a year. Basketball players, hockey players, etc., go hard for 50 minutes almost every night over a several month season.

Mathman

Well, I've yet to see an Oly favorite with a noncontroversial win fail to go on to worlds (Yags, K&D, Kristi, etc..).

I also don't see how overperforming/burn-out can be claimed by most of the worlds skippers, when 90% of them skated for like a nano-second. Oksana, Tara, Ilia, all of them had like the shortest careers ever.

Tara competed for like, five seconds. Sure, she accomplished a lot, but I don't think she established that she was a 'tough as nails' competitor. Anyone can potentially have the skate of a lifetime on one night.

Tara had numerous great skates in her short nanosecond career: Nationals 1997, Worlds 1997, Worlds LP 1996 (not in medals but redeemed her crappy SP), Nationals 1998 (LP), Grand Prix final 1998. The Olympics was pretty much on par with all her other skates and she did it under pressure.