2014 Olympics Team Event Ladies Short Program | Page 11 | Golden Skate

2014 Olympics Team Event Ladies Short Program

zamboni step

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Wagner's FS performance/cleanliness has been dropping since the TEB
she will get lower PCS than Gracie

In the FS, the way she's been skating it so far, I would agree with that. But in the SP I'd say Ashley will edge her out on PCS, her short is much better than her free. And there's only been two competitions since TEB so it's not really enough to form an actual pattern.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
In the FS, the way she's been skating it so far, I would agree with that. But in the SP I'd say Ashley will edge her out on PCS, her short is much better than her free. And there's only been two competitions since TEB so it's not really enough to form an actual pattern.

Gold's new short program is very good actually. She has 3Z+3T too.

Wagner's PCS is consistently dropping from Skate America. I know first one is home event, still very interesting.

SA 33.05
TEB 32.22
GPF 31.75
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
In the FS, the way she's been skating it so far, I would agree with that. But in the SP I'd say Ashley will edge her out on PCS, her short is much better than her free. And there's only been two competitions since TEB so it's not really enough to form an actual pattern.

4th at nationals, she scored a 30+ PCS here
what makes you think Gracie wont score higher

Gracie is a gold medal contender, Wagner is not
she will be lucky if she gets a 67+, while a clean Gracie with her 3Lz-3T will be scoring in 73-75 SP range
 

zamboni step

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
4th at nationals, she scored a 30+ PCS here
what makes you think Gracie wont score higher

Gracie is a gold medal contender, Wagner is not
she will be lucky if she gets a 67+, while a clean Gracie with her 3Lz-3T will be scoring in 73-75 SP range

I'm pretty sure they both have the same scoring range in the short. It's the free that Gracie could overtake Wagner. It all comes down to who holds under the pressure. She scored a 30+ here because she was in direct comparison with Julia who the judges were protecting. Do you really think the same won't happen today in the FS? If Gracie skates clean just you watch her PCS take a hit. It'll be unfair and you'll be right to call foul play on it.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
I'm pretty sure they both have the same scoring range in the short. It's the free that Gracie could overtake Wagner. It all comes down to who holds under the pressure. She scored a 30+ here because she was in direct comparison with Julia who the judges were protecting. Do you really think the same won't happen today in the FS? If Gracie skates clean just you watch her PCS take a hit. It'll be unfair and you'll be right to call foul play on it.

No. Gold's 3Z+3T is very clean, unlike Wagner's 3F+3T<. Gold's spins are much better too. Gracie could get Ashley's TES very easily and she is going to be US No.1 so PCS can be higher too.
 

zamboni step

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
No. Gold's 3Z+3T is very clean, unlike Wagner's 3F+3T<. Gold's spins are much better too. Gracie could get Ashley's TES very easily and she is going to be US No.1 so PCS can be higher too.

She's not going to be in the final group so no.....I don't see that happening at all. I'm sorry but skate order is still a lot when it comes to PCS, and it's not just who the National Champ is. Do you think Mao will get lower PCS than Akiko? No, Ashley has two GPF medals and three GP golds. Gracie has none of those, one National gold isn't going to make up the difference in one go. The FS is another story.....
 

BusyMom

Medalist
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
I'm pretty sure they both have the same scoring range in the short. It's the free that Gracie could overtake Wagner. It all comes down to who holds under the pressure. She scored a 30+ here because she was in direct comparison with Julia who the judges were protecting. Do you really think the same won't happen today in the FS? If Gracie skates clean just you watch her PCS take a hit. It'll be unfair and you'll be right to call foul play on it.
Would love to see Skyfly's reactions if that will be tonight's scenario. Julia was Skyfly's golden girl up until recently.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
She's not going to be in the final group so no.....I don't see that happening at all. I'm sorry but skate order is still a lot when it comes to PCS, and it's not just who the National Champ is. Do you think Mao will get lower PCS than Akiko? No, Ashley has two GPF medals and three GP golds. Gracie has none of those, one National gold isn't going to make up the difference in one go. The FS is another story.....

I thought there is going to be a draw like Worlds. She is in the last two group.

Grand Prix medals are not important. You have to skate cleanly at Olympics. Ashley with cheated combo, can't do that.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Sandra said ashley was on fire. I saw a very cautiously skated program. Ashley would have done well not to scowl at her scores considering what has foregone. Can a skater not tell when they double foot a jump? Ashley said in post interview she would have to look at the protocols to see the reason her score wasn't what she expected.

I doubt few will agree with me, but Caro's costume (with implied nudity almost to her navel) is not appropriate for Ave Maria. Since her costume did not reflect the character of the music,
a deduction even might have been appropriate.
 

zamboni step

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Would love to see Skyfly's reactions if that will be tonight's scenario. Julia was Skyfly's golden girl up until recently.

I think her head might explode, Sky_Fly must troll the skater who gets higher PCS than her favourites, but anything score that one of her favourites gets is too low, and deserves higher PCS. Her programming didn't account for this situation :laugh:

I thought there is going to be a draw like Worlds. She is in the last two group.

Grand Prix medals are not important. You have to skate cleanly at Olympics. Ashley with cheated combo, can't do that.

And Gracie with clean combo can? Where is the evidence to suggest Gracie has more of an ability to skate clean than Ashley? Ashley has come close this season more times than Gracie. Also Ashley has proven she has the mental fortitude to skate clean FSs last season. Gracie still hasn't.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
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May 4, 2013
Yes, this is all getting a bit ridiculous and it's very obvious (if it wasn't before) they're setting her up as a clear threat for the OGM. I like Yulia and she's an amazing competitor, but I'm not sure how those PCS can be justified, both on a 1-to-10 scale and relative to her competitors.

Well, those PCS can be justified by comparing them to Plushenko's PCS ;)
 

ManyCairns

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Just taking the chance that the forum is actually working to say that I'm so happy for Wagner. I do think she had a lot of attack in the performance and I thought it was gutsy to put in the 3-3 and stand up on it even with the 2 footed landing. It would have been easy to go for the comfortable 3-2, especially given the pressure on her because of her selection to the team and because of where Team USA was in the team competition standings. She should be proud.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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The mess is her take-off technique namely her free leg position. Her left knee crosses the take-off leg nearly before leaving the ice which makes the jump so so tiny. IMO not worth a positive GOE of +1 / +2 which she received all across the board.

I think because she sets up so quick especially compared to the others in relation to her 2a she receives the bullet pt for creative unexpected entry, I also think her overall effortless landing followed by her leg lift and flow out and transition right back into choreography qualify her for two more bullet points. That's three bullet points satisfied which COULD garner at least 1 GOE if so a judge is inclined. I actually think her flow out is the best among any of them and as other posters have eluded to her only redeeming factor in regards to this element. Granted of course she actually jumps into the air and rotates 2 1/2 times regardless of height a judge COULD justifiably award a positive GOE. You may not like it but the rules on judging currently do support giving a jump like this at least a +1.

I would focus on SS if you want to tear apart Julia. The scores here are a bit :bang: There is no way Julia is on par with Caro or Mao. I tend to think she has the capability to overcome her deficiencies here, if she chooses to and I hope she does, but she's not there yet. I think when you watch her in warm-ups she has beautiful flow and control when just skating around. If you take into account her rigid attention to detail she very well may get to it sooner than later, her SS are just not a focus and almost non-existence in her programs as of yet. Her FS has a good SSeq which I've always kind of felt is an element that is like a gateway drug into improving ones overall SS. She deserved to win in that I think her and Caro where basically elual with the nod today going to Julia.

I'm beginning to think the team event is hers to lose and the individual medal will be tougher for her to even medal. Who knows because while certain elements are a bit of a void for her now there is little denying her affect on a live audience. She has a wow factor and then some that's hard to ignore. That wow isn't on the protocols necessarily but a factor none the less which may be infecting more than just her presentation scores.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Just taking the chance that the forum is actually working to say that I'm so happy for Wagner. I do think she had a lot of attack in the performance and I thought it was gutsy to put in the 3-3 and stand up on it even with the 2 footed landing. It would have been easy to go for the comfortable 3-2, especially given the pressure on her because of her selection to the team and because of where Team USA was in the team competition standings. She should be proud.

ITA!! She surprised me for sure. When I saw her prepping with her coach I was like, OMG she's going into mental meltdown mode. Congrats to her and so glad I was wrong.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Well, those PCS can be justified by comparing them to Plushenko's PCS ;)
We should think about Sotnikova's PCS.:laugh:

And Gracie with clean combo can? Where is the evidence to suggest Gracie has more of an ability to skate clean than Ashley? Ashley has come close this season more times than Gracie. Also Ashley has proven she has the mental fortitude to skate clean FSs last season. Gracie still hasn't.

She has good practices in Sochi. We will see how she is going to skate. I'm just saying Gracie's potential score is higher than Wagner, mainly in TES.
 

zamboni step

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
She has good practices in Sochi. We will see how she is going to skate. I'm just saying Gracie's potential score is higher than Wagner, mainly in TES.

So does Mao, look at how that turned out. Her potential has always been better than Wagner's no one is questioning that I don't think.
 

KwanIsALegend

Fly On
Medalist
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Feb 2, 2011
I agree with several posters who have argued that Julia's PCS were inflated (and have been increasingly so as the season has progressed, without any visible improvements), particularly in comparison to such skaters as Carolina and Mao, who, in my opinion, are simply in another league. That said, I commend her for doing a clean skate under such immense pressure, and feel that either she or Carolina would have been justified in placing first today (based on TES and PCS advantages, respectively). She is definitely a fierce competitor!

Besides the issues with her jumps (which I will not rehash here; others have provided a detailed analysis), my two main concerns with Julia are:

1) She does not complete her movements. I found this particularly problematic today when she was doing many of her flexibility moves - She would barely get her leg in the position before it flailed down. Certainly, her flexibility is the most impressive of the field, but I don't see evidence that she has the strength to support her flexibility. Both aspects are needed to really make the moves complete (and more impressive). To draw a parallel in the dance world, lots of people can kick their foot above their head; however, very few have the strength to hold it up there. It is the latter that is more impressive and unique, indicative of a stronger overall dancer.
2) While I give kudos to her choreographers this year, who have developed programs that hide her lack of expression, musicality, audience connection, and artistry (as another poster has mentioned, after 'the look' at the start of her FS, it is all business), I fear that she will become a bit of a one-trick pony, artistically. She handles solemn, introspective programs well, which I believe relates to her personality, based on interviews I have seen. However, I don't see her being able to handle a wide range of program 'types' (e.g., a strong, passionate tango; a fun, upbeat song; a sassy, flirty piece), which I believe will be her downfall in the future.



I fully agree with your 2 concerns regarding Julia.
She puts her leg up for a micro second and then it's down before your eye has a chance to really catch the move. In this I still find her very juniorish and wish she wasn't being so hyped. She is not a star ...yet. She still needs to develop and mature.
Unfortunately I think she is being pushed as the star and the fact that the Olympics are in Russia doesn't help. They want her to win gold now, not 4 years from now.
 
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