Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 153

Thread: Russian (Supposed) inflations and their Olympic consequences

  1. #136
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    49
    Such a shame !!! People like Hamilton or Sandra B. should also speak out, but they don't have the courage to do it or they are blind. I really liked Kurt Browning's comments about the whole thing : "You don't become a better skater in such a short period of time" or that her components SHOULDN'T be near Yuna's

  2. #137
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by treeloving View Post
    What I'm afraid of is the trend of super hyper inflation will continue for other host, So Yon Park and Hajin might be podium contender in 2018.
    Won't the IJS eventually run out of points to give if they keep inflating the scores like they have been? If you give someone a +2 today for a GOE and next year, when they improve, you give them a +3, what do you give them the year after that if they continue to improve??? What's after "perfection" in this IJS system?

  3. #138
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinerette View Post
    Polina Edmunds the other fifteen year old received much lower PCS even though she is much more refined in her jumps and musical expression than Julia. Polina has a decent double axel unlike Julia that obviously doesn't matter since half the judges were from Eastern Europe.
    But her actual skating between elements which is what PCS is supposed to judge is not. PCS and jumps are supposed to be disconnected until jumping errors start to completely wreck the program. Having said that though from what she did in the SP her PCS should have been about 30 with a max of 31. I haven't actually seen her LP, but judging from what the protocol says and what she did at Nationals combined ith what went on with other PCS I would put her at 62 max.

  4. #139
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    936
    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Agreed that I finally felt I understood the recent PCS inflation, and accepted it. Yes, it doesn't seem fair for the younger ones to "catch up" with the veterans, but how else will they ever stand a chance? If they are convinced that they will get to skate on a more level playing rink, it is more likely that they will throw in their best performance and up the ante. Otherwise, it's a vicious cycle. I thought KIm wasn't as good as Vancouver 2010, but she's still excellent. It's the program that wasn't as impressive, and it didn't allow her to bring her A game, and Sot did.
    When the youngsters actually show skills and maturity they should get the PCS. Not all youngsters will grow in same pace. But you surely saw the graph that demonstrates selective inflation for two Russian girls? I thought Kim's skating skill improved immensely compared to 4 years ago and Adelina's is not even in the same league. Kim floats on the ice. Adelina juggles. When Adelina shows the mastery of Kim and Costner, no one will object to her PCS. There are even people advocating Yulia's 70+ PCS - to me that really shows nothing but delusion. While they kind of quieted down, it was unbelievable during Yulia hype to hear how Yulia's PCS deserves to be around Kim's from some members here. You yourself acknowledged their skills are not up to par with Kim/Costner/Asada: Shouldn't they be reflected in PCS? What is the PCS for? People are not arguing that Adelina/Yulia should be held down when they show the same skating skill as Kim/Costner. People are arguing that their skills are not there yet and the PCS should reflect that fact.

    PCS do have criteria in each of its columns. The judges in this event completely ignored every one of them. (9.75/9.75/9.75/9.5/9.5 - seriously?)

  5. #140
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,609
    Quote Originally Posted by chiocciola View Post
    Salt Lake City

    Gold for Hughes??? 5,6 for Slutskaya's artistry))) Scandalous second gold for Canadians...

    Vancouver

    Scandalous scores for Chan, Dube/Davidson, bronze for Rochette... Gold for safe Evan with no quad?

    It happens every time.

    What you guys are saying is double standards. You're ok with winnings of those who are immature, young but North Americans (Lipinski, Hughes, Gold) or mature but not good enough in TES as long as they're North Americans (Evan, Rochette...).

    All the underrotations and falls will not be counted for Russians and will be for others. Face it! Nobody's going to rob those who truly deserve it. If they don't fall. Men: Hanyu or Chan, Women: Mao or Yu-Na. Pairs: VT or SS. Ice dance: VM or DW.

    VT will win if they don't make major mistakes. What's wrong with that? BS or IK will get the bronze if they are 100% clean. Julia and Adelina will medal if they're clean, can win if Mao and Yu-Na make mistakes.

    What's wrong with that?
    I hear you but I don't agree about rochette. She has some of the hardest routines/programs - more intricate than Yuna and her power on her jumps besides Mirai didn't have the skating skills to compete with Joannie and her program to Carment was very juniorish or Miss America - she skated throught he music without the maturity and sophisitcation or passsin that Carmen shoudl be skated too.

  6. #141
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,456
    One small point:

    There are always going to be disputes and feelings of "wuzobbed" in one competition or another. But it's important to remember that back in the 6.0 days or even in the early CoP days, underrotations were not scrutinized as closely by judges, and certain other elements weren't marked down either, so you can't compare, say, Sarah Hughes' free skate in 2002 with anyone's of today. You could still make a case for judges' bias in any of those situations, but you can't use those details as evidence.

  7. #142
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by Isabel_O'Reilly View Post
    But her actual skating between elements which is what PCS is supposed to judge is not. PCS and jumps are supposed to be disconnected until jumping errors start to completely wreck the program. Having said that though from what she did in the SP her PCS should have been about 30 with a max of 31. I haven't actually seen her LP, but judging from what the protocol says and what she did at Nationals combined ith what went on with other PCS I would put her at 62 max.
    What you're talking about is "transitions" that is only one part of PCS. I think Julia gets an edge here but we're not talking about a Kostner type advantage. In comparison, Polina is pretty much on par with Julia in most aspects of PCS. They're both young and budding in their artistry. Julia tried to mask her deficiencies in this with her music and costume in her FS. Polina with her light, upbeat FS program. In fairness to Polina, transitions are much more apparent in a lyrical piece like Julia skated.

    Bottom line: the Russians had their PCS jacked way more than everybody else (despite most skaters receiving some inflation).

  8. #143
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    127
    Twitter:

    Retweeted by Lynn Rutherford
    Christina Gao ‏@christina_gao 3h
    Check out the article on judging in figure skating I wrote for The Harvard Crimson opinion section! (@CrimsonOpinion) http://www.thecrimson.com/article/20...6/on-thin-ice/

  9. #144
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    936
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    One small point:

    There are always going to be disputes and feelings of "wuzobbed" in one competition or another. But it's important to remember that back in the 6.0 days or even in the early CoP days, underrotations were not scrutinized as closely by judges, and certain other elements weren't marked down either, so you can't compare, say, Sarah Hughes' free skate in 2002 with anyone's of today. You could still make a case for judges' bias in any of those situations, but you can't use those details as evidence.
    I agree with that. Different times, different systems, similar corruptions. The devil is in the details.

  10. #145
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    129
    So Christina Gao is supporting the idea that Kim lost because she had six triples. Then how did Carolina and Mao not beat Adelina. No wonder Gao never made the Olympic and the World team-she doesn't know how to add the base values of the jumps from the sp and the lp.

  11. #146
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by AnastasiaO View Post
    Such a shame !!! People like Hamilton or Sandra B. should also speak out, but they don't have the courage to do it or they are blind. I really liked Kurt Browning's comments about the whole thing : "You don't become a better skater in such a short period of time" or that her components SHOULDN'T be near Yuna's
    I watched Sandra's interview on the skating lesson. She probably thinks that Yuna should win judging from all the disdain she felt about the cheating incident in 2002. However, I think she's keeping her mouth shut so she could keep her job at NBC.

  12. #147
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    936
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinerette View Post
    So Christina Gao is supporting the idea that Kim lost because she had six triples. Then how did Carolina and Mao not beat Adelina. No wonder Gao never made the Olympic and the World team-she doesn't know how to add the base values of the jumps from the sp and the lp.
    I did not get that vibe out of Gao's piece.

  13. #148
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    Adelina had a great FS at Bompard, Her score allowed her to be competitive with The likes of Wagner
    That's 3 months ago.
    But I think she lost points for her see-through dress.

  14. #149
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,229
    Quote Originally Posted by chiocciola View Post
    Salt Lake City

    Gold for Hughes??? 5,6 for Slutskaya's artistry))) Scandalous second gold for Canadians...

    Vancouver

    Scandalous scores for Chan, Dube/Davidson, bronze for Rochette... Gold for safe Evan with no quad?

    It happens every time.

    What you guys are saying is double standards. You're ok with winnings of those who are immature, young but North Americans (Lipinski, Hughes, Gold) or mature but not good enough in TES as long as they're North Americans (Evan, Rochette...).

    All the underrotations and falls will not be counted for Russians and will be for others. Face it! Nobody's going to rob those who truly deserve it. If they don't fall. Men: Hanyu or Chan, Women: Mao or Yu-Na. Pairs: VT or SS. Ice dance: VM or DW.

    VT will win if they don't make major mistakes. What's wrong with that? BS or IK will get the bronze if they are 100% clean. Julia and Adelina will medal if they're clean, can win if Mao and Yu-Na make mistakes.

    What's wrong with that?
    Since when is there such a thing as a North American bias? The US and Canada are rivals. It's like saying the Japanese and Koreans vote together to prop up their skaters. Sarah Hughes won by default, not by any bias. Evan won because the Russians hadn't figured out yet how to put one of their own skaters over the top. Just look at Plushenkos's PCS, for a transitionless program, performed with none of his usual bravado. And he only lost by a small fraction, as I recall. I do agree that there is Canadian bias but the second gold medal to S&P was the result of a French judge admitting she had been pressured to cheat. It is twisted logic to assume that Canadian bias influenced the outcome of an event not even held in Canada. And many (US) Americans are not OK with Lipinski's win over Kwan. It is still being debated after all of these years.

  15. #150
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    217
    Quote Originally Posted by Melon View Post
    But a flutz is a flutz. Flutz deserves -GOE not +1.4
    Hi guys I'm new

    I've been thinking about this since the ladies event (can't hide the bias in my username ), and I wonder if anyone else agrees that they really ought to take a much tougher stance when it comes to flutzing. I think it should be considered way more serious than just a matter of GoE.

    The reason is because the 3Lz is considered second only to the 3A in terms of difficulty (quads not considered), and I think if it's truly supposed to be one of the skills that separates "la creme de la creme", then that fact should translate directly into the base value points and overall score.

    For example: if you claim to have a skill in your repertoire - in this case 3Lz - and you don't perform it, it should be considered an omission, and thus the base value of 6 should be omitted from your score as well. The "e" would be replaced by another letter (maybe "o" for omission?) and both the base value and GoE would be zero.

    If the matter is debatable - say you took off a flat edge - then it would be at the judges discretion. But if they decide to count the jump as a Lz, it should be a mandatory -2GoE (on par with a bad stumble on the landing). I know that seems really harsh, but if all jumps are defined according to their take-off edge, then a near-failure to properly launch a lutz should count the same as a near-failure to land it (it's the same difference).

    As it stands, it seems too easy for skaters who do not yet have a handle on this skill to claim it as part of their point total, and I think it's unfairly putting them on par with skaters who have mastered it. I don't skate myself, but for those who do - what is the point of practicing a lutz, when you can simply mimic the long entry, swing your foot around for a second to a BOE, and then change the jump completely at the last minute into something that's much easier for you? It seems all to easy to get points just for claiming that you can do something when really, you can't do it at all

    Obviously, doing this would immediately put the less skilled skaters at a 6-12 pt. disadvantage to the ones who have mastered the 3Lz (at least going into the lp), but overall I think it would be a good thing. It would force the less skilled skaters to either improve their technique until they master the jump, or find ways around their point disadvantage, by improving their artistry, spins, footwork, edge quality, flexibility, endurance etc. Adjusting the scoring system in this way would be akin to an "evolutionary pressure" - forcing skaters to adapt/improve one way or another - and it would ensure that the skaters who present the most compelte package would consistently lead the pack.

    Well, that's it. Let me know what you guys think about this idea (and I apologize if any of this sounds ignorant! When the scoring system changed over, I had a hard time understanding it. I don't know the finer points as I've been out of the loop for a while).

Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •