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Thread: Russian (Supposed) inflations and their Olympic consequences

  1. #16
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    I have been lurking around since discovering this sight about a year ago. Been a long time skating fan and the parent of a former world level synchronized skater on Canada's premier team. (some of you may recognize the name Nexxice if you follow synchro at all). I definitely do not have the technical expertise that some wonderful members here have and share with us all. It is appreciated and I've learned so much. Whats not appreciated is this type of immature post full of unnecessary vitriol aimed mainly at anyone and anything Canadian. I am Canadian but appreciate skaters from any country. While D&R are not my favourite nobody has the right to make disparaging remarks about someone's physical build. They have obviously worked very hard as all skaters that make it to the Olympics. I'm all for constructive mature criticism but these constant ridiculous comments are simply outrageous which I suspect this member enjoys.

    FYI, about your scrutinez joke
    Plushenko SP he only got didnt got all 8 in component yet still would have him enough to beat Chan's mess of a SP
    Carolina ha never beaten Julia in a SP this season, as clean skates continue the PCS will rise, that is a fact
    and lol, D/R innovation ? it has nothing to do with PCS !!!

    also to remind you, D/R have terrible skating skills, atrocious form, Duhamel is build like a truck driver thus her lines in the air are ugly
    they deserve PCS in 6 and 7, thats a joke if you compare them to V/T[/QUOTE]

  2. #17
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiocciola View Post
    Salt Lake City

    Gold for Hughes??? 5,6 for Slutskaya's artistry))) Scandalous second gold for Canadians...

    Vancouver

    Scandalous scores for Chan, Dube/Davidson, bronze for Rochette... Gold for safe Evan with no quad?

    It happens every time.

    What you guys are saying is double standards. You're ok with winnings of those who are immature, young but North Americans (Lipinski, Hughes, Gold) or mature but not good enough in TES as long as they're North Americans (Evan, Rochette...).

    All the underrotations and falls will not be counted for Russians and will be for others. Face it! Nobody's going to rob those who truly deserve it. If they don't fall. Men: Hanyu or Chan, Women: Mao or Yu-Na. Pairs: VT or SS. Ice dance: VM or DW.

    VT will win if they don't make major mistakes. What's wrong with that? BS or IK will get the bronze if they are 100% clean. Julia and Adelina will medal if they're clean, can win if Mao and Yu-Na make mistakes.

    What's wrong with that?
    I think though if Kostner were to go clean and Julia/Adelina were to go clean, she'd deserve to beat them.

  3. #18
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    FYI
    Just found this article "Report: U.S., Russian judges accused of conspiring to help certain figure skaters:"
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/o...ition-resumes/

    The WP cites L'Équipe. I couldn't find the mentioned article there, perhaps in print?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by text_skate View Post
    FYI
    Just found this article "Report: U.S., Russian judges accused of conspiring to help certain figure skaters:"
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/o...ition-resumes/

    The WP cites L'Équipe. I couldn't find the mentioned article there, perhaps in print?
    Well, now that the Washington Post reported it it clearly means that the US media is anti US and anti Russia and is trying to make sure the Canadians get all five figure skating gold medals. American fans should really stop their pro-Canadian scheming. They are clearly all desperate for a V/M win over D/W. American fans are all so pathetic. I hope they enjoy all five Canadian figure skating gold medals.

    (More seriously, the original French article was posted yesterday. I am not sure how your French is, but here is a link)

  5. #20
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    I don't see why this is so unexpected that Plushenko, Lipnitskaia, B/S and S/K have all received excessively generous PCS. And low balling of non-Russians' GOE or PCS scores, overlooking Russian flutzes, is to be expected.

    It's Cup of Russia all over again.

    I will say however that Russia deserves the lead because they have been extremely on. S/K have had the only real error out of 5 Russian performances and that is an incredible show of team consistency.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    I know i'm a big fan of a bunch of Russian skaters, But i do want to get a focused debate going on this, Before the heavy competition starts:

    -Did the Russian skaters benefit a bit too much in PCS?
    -Did the crowd influence the judges a bit too much?
    -Did the judges penalize a little less for Russian skaters who made borderline mistakes and so so executions ?
    -Have non Russian skaters who are threatening Russian ones been over scrutinized ?


    Possible examples so far:
    -P\B of France having the biggest technical base mark of the night, But losing to B\S of Russia on PCS and GOE, a placing which cost France it's 5th place in the finals.
    -Plushenko having a good clean skate, with high 8's for PCS placing him over Chan of Canada with a flawed skate, Which wouldn't of happened with a couple less points for said PCS.
    -Osmond of Canada (Russia's main rival) going clean but finishing 5th with low 7's for PCS.
    -D\R of Canada getting high 7's for PCS for a very risky and inventive SP, while Russian mega favorites V\T getting high 9's.
    -Lipnitskaya of Russia getting + 1.40 for her Lutz combo, Which in every other competition this year got -1's because of it's takeoff, Thus finishing ahead of Clean Kostner.
    -Plushenko getting +GOE for his wonky triple axle.
    I don't know about the others because I didn't watch their skating much before the Olympics to say anything, but for Julia her flutz is always bordeline. Sometimes it is called harshly, sometimes it is not. Regardless, if it had been called, just like at Europeans the combination was fully rotated and had fairly good flow out so she would have received what she received there which would have still kept her in first place. In the short program at Europeans the combination wasn't quite as good as in the freeskate and with the edge edge call she went from what would have been a range of 1's and 2's to a range of -1's and 0's. Rewarded for the good aspects while penalized for the bad. Final GOE -0.20. In the freeskate the combination was better, but the edge call took her from a range of 1's, 2's and 3's to -1's, 0's and 1's. Final GOE 0.00.

    I have not seen a HD video yet which shows the jump from the proper angle to determine whether she was on an outside edge, flat of the blade or had changed to an inside edge at the moment of take-off. Anyway, removing the GOE, she would have still been in 1st place. By nearly a point.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I don't see why this is so unexpected that Plushenko, Lipnitskaia, B/S and S/K have all received excessively generous PCS. And low balling of non-Russians' GOE or PCS scores, overlooking Russian flutzes, is to be expected.

    It's Cup of Russia all over again.

    I will say however that Russia deserves the lead because they have been extremely on. S/K have had the only real error out of 5 Russian performances and that is an incredible show of team consistency.
    Absolutely agree, the Russians are in first at the moment because only one error has been made, Canadian skaters have made 3, and the Americans are third because Jeremy had a bad day.(though strategically if they wanted to have a chance of winning he was the guy to skate, he had way more scoring potential than Brown and could have scored anywhere from 55-95 and I'm sure USFSA knows it as well). The rest of the American team was more than strong enough to bring them back into a medal position, which I'm sure USFSA also knew quite well. This would have been a much closer competition had both Patrick and Jeremy nailed the short. Plushenko would have more than likely been 4th instead of 2nd and Canada and the U.S would have more than likely had 8,9 or 10 in the mens short. The ladies event was a bit off in placement, but it's figure skating and it happens all the time, it's a judged sport. Their have been some snowboarders complaining also.(apparently a judged sport). I just hope figure skating becomes more transparent for the future. Does it value difficulty or quality. Julia did a very difficult program with an apparent edge problem. Carolina is what figure skating is and has exceptional quality in between the elements and incredible height and flow on easier jumps. I thought the Chinese girl was under marked but she's from China so it's expected I guess. Katelyn, Ashely and Mao could have ended up in any order between the three of them, but to be honest I though Mao was the weakest today, she got away with an under rotation on her 2Lo and that may have changed the outcome. I thought the tech panel was weak and inconsistent because of Mao's missed call and Julia's missed edge. Judging is judging and judges do what they want to. I don't think anybody watches skating anymore expecting to agree with the judges. Its the olympics and it's about great performances and the team event brought us some already.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I think though if Kostner were to go clean and Julia/Adelina were to go clean, she'd deserve to beat them.
    ITA. Carolina's skating and interpretation skills are AMAZING. Julia is crazy strong technically, but she's not a performer. Outside of required elements, her programs are actually boring. Let her outscore everyone and their mother in TES, but for crying out loud, her PCS is a joke.
    And I don't even like Kostner. But I know great skating when I see it. I also would've given higher PCS to Ashley. That girl knows how to sell her program.
    Actually, PCS wise, I would have them:
    1. Kostner
    2. Wagner
    3. Asada
    4. Lipnitskaya

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiocciola View Post
    Salt Lake City

    Gold for Hughes??? 5,6 for Slutskaya's artistry))) Scandalous second gold for Canadians...

    Vancouver

    Scandalous scores for Chan, Dube/Davidson, bronze for Rochette... Gold for safe Evan with no quad?

    It happens every time.

    What you guys are saying is double standards. You're ok with winnings of those who are immature, young but North Americans (Lipinski, Hughes, Gold) or mature but not good enough in TES as long as they're North Americans (Evan, Rochette...).

    All the underrotations and falls will not be counted for Russians and will be for others. Face it! Nobody's going to rob those who truly deserve it. If they don't fall. Men: Hanyu or Chan, Women: Mao or Yu-Na. Pairs: VT or SS. Ice dance: VM or DW.

    VT will win if they don't make major mistakes. What's wrong with that? BS or IK will get the bronze if they are 100% clean. Julia and Adelina will medal if they're clean, can win if Mao and Yu-Na make mistakes.

    What's wrong with that?
    Yes, yes, and yes to this! Why people think that this happens only in Russia? Also, this year, GPF - Japan - Mao winning FS over Julia, was it deserved?
    Also, you will never prove me that a person, who is quite weaker in TES should win. SP, maybe, that is acceptable, but as for FS, sorry, I would rather see Julia being higher with all these difficult elements and an amazing and touching programm,than Carolina, for example, whose BV is quite weak.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsLiinaLii View Post
    Yes, yes, and yes to this! Why people think that this happens only in Russia? Also, this year, GPF - Japan - Mao winning FS over Julia, was it deserved?
    Also, you will never prove me that a person, who is quite weaker in TES should win. SP, maybe, that is acceptable, but as for FS, sorry, I would rather see Julia being higher with all these difficult elements and an amazing and touching programm,than Carolina, for example, whose BV is quite weak.
    Just because something supposedly biased judging happened elsewhere, Doesn't mean everyone needs to reciprocate and it's fine if they do,
    Also, It's perfectly OK for us to discuss what's happening THIS week without reflecting on former decades, Please.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    I know i'm a big fan of a bunch of Russian skaters, But i do want to get a focused debate going on this, Before the heavy competition starts:

    -Did the Russian skaters benefit a bit too much in PCS?
    -Did the crowd influence the judges a bit too much?
    -Did the judges penalize a little less for Russian skaters who made borderline mistakes and so so executions ?
    -Have non Russian skaters who are threatening Russian ones been over scrutinized ?


    Possible examples so far:
    -P\B of France having the biggest technical base mark of the night, But losing to B\S of Russia on PCS and GOE, a placing which cost France it's 5th place in the finals.
    -Plushenko having a good clean skate, with high 8's for PCS placing him over Chan of Canada with a flawed skate, Which wouldn't of happened with a couple less points for said PCS.
    -Osmond of Canada (Russia's main rival) going clean but finishing 5th with low 7's for PCS.
    -D\R of Canada getting high 7's for PCS for a very risky and inventive SP, while Russian mega favorites V\T getting high 9's.
    -Lipnitskaya of Russia getting + 1.40 for her Lutz combo, Which in every other competition this year got -1's because of it's takeoff, Thus finishing ahead of Clean Kostner.
    -Plushenko getting +GOE for his wonky triple axle.
    Yes! I completely agree with this. I'm kind of annoyed at how everyone is kind of letting the overscoring slide.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    boo hoo, Canada is robbed of the gold
    Russia is evil and dont deserve any medals

    FYI, about your scrutinez joke
    Plushenko SP he only got didnt got all 8 in component yet still would have him enough to beat Chan's mess of a SP
    Carolina ha never beaten Julia in a SP this season, as clean skates continue the PCS will rise, that is a fact
    and lol, D/R innovation ? it has nothing to do with PCS !!!

    also to remind you, D/R have terrible skating skills, atrocious form, Duhamel is build like a truck driver thus her lines in the air are ugly
    they deserve PCS in 6 and 7, thats a joke if you compare them to V/T
    "D is built like a truck driver...."
    WTH? That is such a mean and untrue statement. I agree w/ eladola

    "Carolina ha never beaten Julia in a SP this season"
    and this is exactly what were arguing over: carolina deserves more than julia but is getting less. Your argument is like saying "Well, Julia is overscored, so we have to continue overscoring fer."

  13. #28
    Tripping on the Podium sowcow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumboman View Post
    Katelyn, Ashely and Mao could have ended up in any order between the three of them, but to be honest I though Mao was the weakest today, she got away with an under rotation on her 2Lo and that may have changed the outcome. I thought the tech panel was weak and inconsistent because of Mao's missed call and Julia's missed edge.
    You're absolutely correct that the Technical Panel made a serious error in not downgrading Mao's combination. Although credited as a 3Lo+2Lo combination, it should have been downgraded to a 2Lo+1Lo combination (which effectively would have placed Mao behind Ashley & Katelyn). Glad to see someone else picked up on this error!

    For those interested, here is a discussion & video analysis clearly showing both jumps in the 3Lo+2Lo combination were severely under-rotated.
    Last edited by sowcow; 02-10-2014 at 08:27 PM. Reason: typos

  14. #29
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    Julia's PCS IS CRAZZZZZZZY.

    60 at GPF and 69 at Olympic?

    Gold's 3-3 got 0.4 GOE and Julia's 3-3 got 1.4 of GOE. Seriously?

    Julia's PCS is 9 point higher than Gold. what a crazy score.

    Judges gave +GOE on Julia's terrible 2A(BBC commentator Robin Cousins said 'terrible 2A)

  15. #30
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    Just because something supposedly biased judging happened elsewhere, Doesn't mean everyone needs to reciprocate and it's fine if they do,
    Also, It's perfectly OK for us to discuss what's happening THIS week without reflecting on former decades, Please.
    I agree. Just because it happened elsewhere, how's it perfectly okay happening here? Please. And it's kind of too glaringly obvious.

    I expected Olympic inflation, yes, not a selective one. Julia's GOEs a bit too much to stomach, especially compared to what Gold and Osmond and Ashley have gotten.

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