2014 Olympics Team Event Free Dance | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2014 Olympics Team Event Free Dance

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
I don't know why sisinka hates them but Ilimykh/Katsalapov are bronze medal favorites: Their skating skills are better than other teams lke Pechalat/Bourzat, Weaver/Poje and their programs are better then Bobrova/Soloviev who had to change their free dance twice. Only weakness is levels but they got very good levels at TEB, Europeans and here. Their GOE is very good too.
 

TheGothicEme

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
no! big no! no no no. IK are nowhere near the level that PB get, they maybe equal to WP though - but I doubt that, and more interesting than BS? again, no. their fd is simple, no story, no big element (you could call that lift at the begining extraordinary, but in fact, it is not, both of his hand keep her legs at the right place, he does all the job, she just stays in his arms and do, well, hardly anything). and to be honest, why "two characters feeling love & passion toward each other" is interesting is beyond my awareness, no, WP's fd is much netter than that. And don't make me go to the short dance, now it truly is the huge failure, not BS' former fd.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
no! big no! no no no. IK are nowhere near the level that PB get, they maybe equal to WP though - but I doubt that, and more interesting than BS? again, no. their fd is simple, no story, no big element (you could call that lift at the begining extraordinary, but in fact, it is not, both of his hand keep her legs at the right place, he does all the job, she just stays in his arms and do, well, hardly anything). and to be honest, why "two characters feeling love & passion toward each other" is interesting is beyond my awareness, no, WP's fd is much netter than that. And don't make me go to the short dance, now it truly is the huge failure, not BS' former fd.
:eek:
I must be read wrong really, I don't think I understand right :laugh: You actually think being that high and away from men's body and only balance point is your knee is easy, she doesn't do any job :laugh: This is most funny thing I read in 2014 Olympics forum :laugh: You know If you really think that, maybe you should watch other team's lifts again. If this is easy, I'm sure Pechalat/Bourzat signature lift is easy for Pechalat too. She is not doing anything!:laugh:
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
no! big no! no no no. IK are nowhere near the level that PB get, they maybe equal to WP though - but I doubt that, and more interesting than BS? again, no. their fd is simple, no story, no big element (you could call that lift at the begining extraordinary, but in fact, it is not, both of his hand keep her legs at the right place, he does all the job, she just stays in his arms and do, well, hardly anything). and to be honest, why "two characters feeling love & passion toward each other" is interesting is beyond my awareness, no, WP's fd is much netter than that. And don't make me go to the short dance, now it truly is the huge failure, not BS' former fd.

Yeah I'd have to agree with you on that first lift -- the only things extraordinary about that lift are the arch in I's back and, of course, her fierce diva bee-yotch face. I do like I/K and think they have the potential to completely set the tone for the next quad (as Marlie and Voir have done for this one), but I don't find their lifts worthy of the hyperbole they've been generating. Lots of smoke and mirrors so far.
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
IK are nowhere near the level that PB get, they maybe equal to WP though - but I doubt that, and more interesting than BS? again, no. their fd is simple, no story, no big element (you could call that lift at the begining extraordinary, but in fact, it is not, both of his hand keep her legs at the right place, he does all the job, she just stays in his arms and do, well, hardly anything)

elif said:
You actually think being that high and away from men's body and only balance point is your knee is easy, she doesn't do any job

WeakAnkles said:
Yeah I'd have to agree with you on that first lift -- the only things extraordinary about that lift are the arch in I's back and, of course, her fierce diva bee-yotch face.

All lifts of top World ten couples are difficult, they can all be level 4. But of course there is a difference in how much difficult is it if you compare lifts of every couple.
I&K were always weak in lifts, they are even today (in comparison with top teams) althought this year their lifts started to be difficult also. But some couples have more difficult and demanding lifts.
And also there a difference between lifts which are looking impressive and lifts which are very difficult, it doesn’t go hand in hand.

Elif thinks that I&K have a difficult lift…let’s go to watch it…I&K first lift – nothing new, Morozov and Cirque du Soleil artist took a position from another couple.
The same lift was done by Dubreil & Lauzon - http://www.skatecanada.ca/Portals/2/AtC/en/apr12/images/Dubreuil-Lauzon-lg.png
Tessa and Scott have the same kind of lift position during their first lift in free dance -
1607q0y.jpg


Back to Lena & Nikita's straight line lift – Nikita takes Lena, lifts her making a circle around his neck, Lena rolls about 360 degrees to get her back towards the ice and puts her skates on his chest or better his stomach (in this first part of a lift, you can see that Nikita puts much more energy into this part than Lena), in the second part Lena extends her legs and makes position (leg position is not looking elegant from the front look, but it is impressive from abeam where the judges are sitting). After centering the lift Nikita lifts one leg. In comparison with Dubreil & Lauzon World‘s FD 2006, Nikita centers before lifting leg for a longer moment, in comparison with Scott the same thing, Scott immediately lifts one leg in moment when he is just getting Tessa into a position. Also Tessa’s position is much more difficult than Lena’s position, Scott holds Tessa’s one leg - knee only - Nikita holding both Lena’s knees means that mainly he is the one who centers the lift and Lena just stays stretched. On the other hand Scott holds one Tessa‘s leg, which means that Tessa must put more effort into centering her position, because it is much more easy to loose control and coordination – if she did Scott wouldn’t be able to keep a balance with her.

If there is only one person who centers a lift, it is difficult for him of course, but if you have both partners who have to center and balance a lift, it opens more opportunities to make mistakes because they have to coordinate their body himself/herself and in the same moment they have to coordinate with each other.

Natalie & Fabian's straight line lift in free dance – it is very difficult talking about centering the lift. If any not so good couple tried to repeat this lift they would probably finish in a hospital with some serious not only head injury. Fabian‘s position in spread eagle – it is very difficult itself to have such position in lifts. While standing on two feet gives you an opportunity to center the lift better and in moment when the lift is not going well you can always put one of your skates a few centimeters beside to get the balance back. Also when you stand on one foot, if you are loosing balance, you can put your second leg on the ice to center the lift better and not to fall. In spread eagle you don’t have such opportunity, there is no way where to put your leg to save the lift, you take the position and if you loose balance, you or your partner simply fall immediately. Natalie’s position was extremely difficult. First if you have your head down and legs up, it is more difficult for you to have such great coordination of whole body. Second Fabian is fixing her arms only, so the rest of the body must be fixed by Natalie, and she can loose balance in many ways – to go forward, back, to the right or left – everything would lead to a fall. While Nikita is fixing Lena‘s knees – so Lena has free space just from knees to head, but Nikita’s fixation and Lena‘s position is allowing her to go just backword (which is not very easy because the gravity and axis of her body work agains any flexion in her knees), she can’t loose balance forward because of knee joint is extended on maximum, and she can hardly loose balance to the right or left because knee joint is not flexible it that way.

Tessa & Scott's straight line lift is very difficult – (some notices are already described above in I&K paragraph). The lift starts from spread eagle position while Tessa must center her position on Scott thigh, then changing immediately into one leg position and with difficult and balance demanding position for Tessa.

Ekaterina & Dmitri's straight line lift in FD – once again Dmitri in spread eagle (like Scott he is already in spread eagle in moment when he lifts a girl – very difficult to balance it), Ekaterina changes three positions, from second to third position Ekaterina must do a half rotation in the air herself (Dmitri’s hands position don’t allow to help her in it).

Kaitlyn & Andrew's straight line lift in FD – Kaitlyn uses original entrance while Andrew stays on two feet, after fixing Kaitlyn’s position then he changes into spread eagle, then Kaitlyn changes position. Not the most difficult, more close to I&K then to V&M as to difficulty.

Meryl & Charlie's straight line lift in free dance – while lifting Charlie is already in spread eagle – Meryl in similar position like Natalie, again it is more difficult for Meryl to balance her body with head down, Charlie is helping more than Fabian – he puts his hand on her back which is a better stability point then Fabian’s arms. Still overall a very difficult and demanding lift.

Anna & Luca's straight line lift in FD – once again Luca already in spread eagle, Anna jumps forward with a half rotation and Luca puts her on his thigh, then Anna has to make a rotation around Luca (who is helping her with it), then he throw her up while she makes an effort into one rotation around her axis. This is probably more demanding for Luca to stabilise himself in all changements in position, Anna has to rotate here and there – she is working too.

One notice to that I&K’s first lift – I think that the first lift was wanted so much (because it is obvious that many people take it like the highlight of the program) that Morozov forgot about the rules. In the beginning of the season I&K had a press conference and open practise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeYO_LpDrVs In 1:35 you can see that Nikita takes off a belt which he had because of the first lift.
During press conference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pNd4irBKaE&list=UUjaUiznBS9O3SeqwqlIc4UQ in 2:50 Nikita explains that he uses a belt at practise and costumes will be specially prepared, that a belt helps in lifts not to get an injury, he describes that during the first lift Lena stays on his stomach with her blades, so he needs a protection, then Nikita is asked what about competition, he answers that a belt will be under a costume (maybe he thought a part of a costume), so nobody will notice. But looking at rules RESTRICTIONS FOR CLOTHING - “Accessories and props”: this includes part of the costume used as a support in a Dance Lift.
And in Handbook for Technical Panel you can find a question (page 59):
What happens if the lifting partner uses part of the costume as a support? Answer: The Technical Panel will assess the Level regardless of the costume being used as a support. Part of the costume being used a prop, the Judges and Referee will apply the deduction for costume/prop violation.
Morozov didn’t know or he forgot about it?
When Nikita uses such belt or belt-like support to be able to perform a lift, it makes his work easier. With this belt which is protecting him he can easily put a majority of Lena’s weight on his stomach and have less smaller part of her weight in his hands, so he uses his arms mainly for stabilization. And this is easier than Scott’s work in a similar lift position.

If you notice all I&K lifts, not only the first, Nikita uses his shoulder or chest or stomach to reduce his arm‘s work putting a majority of Lena’s weight on another part of his body but arms (which are mainly stabilising her body). Only in last lift in free dance, there are more changements where mainly his arms are needed and because Lena is not helping him in lifts and just waits, immediately that lift looks the most heavy and simply ponderously. Also there is an advantage in rotational lifts when a girl is on partner shoulder or chest – it makes more easy to balance the lift. While a partner holds a girl in his arm only like B&S or W&P in free dance, it puts all girl’s weight on partner’s one arm plus there is an energy from rotation which makes you feel like you would be lifting even more weight. One arm rotational lifts are also more demanding as to balancing the lift – a partner has to keep the centre of rotation on his skates, while girl’s weight and energy of rotation try to put the balance off.

If you notice all couples mentioned here, you will find that both men and women from all couples are working in every lifts in quite equivalent way. While I&K – you can obviously see that Nikita is working more than Lena (who really looks like she would wait for his acts) and that is why sometimes their lifts looks like a struggle a little bit. And this is also a part of the reason why their lifts are not more difficult. But yes, they improved since last year.
 
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