2014 Olympics Team Event Free Dance | Page 4 | Golden Skate

2014 Olympics Team Event Free Dance

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
It shouldn't be about personal preference in music, but how one skates, as measured against specific criteria, whatever the music... What I hope for the individual events is the same standards applied to all teams, and PCS and GOE that match the technical rules, and applied to all the same way, without bias or personal preference.

I agree!!!
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Elena / Nikita should have placed 2nd here

No, I don’t think that I&K are good enough to beat V&M even when the Canadians were not at their best. (And if you really think so, in this case you should continue that with mistake in twizzles in short dance, V&M should lost to B&S as well…you are Russian, right???). You will agree with me for sure that it is much more easy to skate cleanly when your program is simple and except required elements there is nothing to do, while Canadians have a very demanding program with many difficult moves and close holds, so it is much more difficult so skate it cleanly. Why should V&M lost to I&K? Just because V&M and Zueva think that real top world dancers must have a difficult choreography and push themselves to do things which nobody else does? Or because Morozov thinks that posing in front of judges, and two-footed skating with open pairs position is more cool than real dancing? I don’t find it cool and I definitely don’t find it better than real dancing and skating respecting ice dance rules.

Ziggy said:
Ilinykh/Katsalapov skate on very deep edges and they still manage to get excellent flow. Their basic skating is second only to Virtue/Moir, IMO.
I guess I'd have Davis/White third because of their speed with Bobrova/Soloviev closely behind, followed by Pechalat/Bourzat.

I remember compulsory dances and even if I sometimes thought that it was boring, the best couples were never boring and the compulsory dances were the only occasion to see all couples doing the same steps in the same rhythm and with the same speed of music. What became from compulsory steps taken into short dance, everybody can see…every couple is using the most suitable music (the slowest one if possible) and only one whole circle is done, not two (which is less demanding, with two circle there is an unique opportunity to notice if the couple has a good technique or if they just have a good luck and in second circle they will be in trouble with steps).

I&K have nice and deep edges but V&M, B&S, S&Z and some other Russian couples also have the same edges, it is a Russian school to have such edges. (To my surprise Sphilband’s couples don’t have deep edges, althought he is a Russian also).
Skating skills are also about mastering their edges…and I don’t find I&K great in it…more exactly I have absolutely no idea how good or bad are they in mastering their edges. I&K have a choreography which allows them to stay in every move for so long and all arcs take so many time. Yes, they have deep edges but they also have enormous time to prepare for them and put their skates into those edges. When you watch other skaters like V&M ot B&S whose edges are as deep like I&K (W&P, C&L and D&W don’t have such edges), you will notice that they can put their skates into that deep edges in much more short time than I&K. V&M and B&S have difficult choreography but they are still able to master their skates in such way to show deep edges.

Another thing is the fact that controlling your skates having your partner close is much more difficult…that is another thing where I&K are loosing to all top couples…yes, they are fast and they have deep edges but we have absolutely no idea how much fast and much deep edges they would have skating close to each other…

I will put an example of I&K mastering edges…look at skates and edges only…(but you need to watch HQ videos to see such details)
If you compare this season’s short dance…while they are doing step sequence – edges are great, but while the music gets faster – before twizzles and right after it, they immediately loose their deep edges even when they curved on the short side of the stadium (even when those steps are simple). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VQONCzAbog
If you compare last season’s short dance…their circular step sequence was in deep edges because they skated it allowing themselves enough time for every arc…while skating to Polka steps they lost their deep edges quite obviously…it was probably still good enough to take some levels but far away from edges showed in step sequence… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB_WsIdu3Mg
If you compare Latin short dance…both circular step sequence and rumba steps have enough time for every arc…but then notice how simple moves were chosen by Morozov to last part of music which is much more faster…and watch how deep edges disappeared and a little edges or no edges replaced it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMdAcQuCtFM

All those examples show that I&K have deep edges while doing slow movements, while they have time for doing arc as long as they need to take a deep edge…but while they are forced to move more fast, they are loosing their deep edges.
But it is important and it includes what skating skills are also about… mastering your skates in any kind of music /movement, not only to slow music / movement. Let’s go to I&K and say them that they will skate their step sequences into the rhythm of Vivaldi’s Four season…they will fail…they will skate with no edges and with many mistakes.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
It only starts with tutu…but this year it is more long to hide Lena’s thighs and backside (unfortunately you really need to be too slim to wear such dress, probably only Cappellini and Pechalat could wear tutu without any fear)…
…in both dances they are both waving to each other with their arms in first seconds of the dance…
jucz20.jpg
x
10xhhqw.png

…both dances were created in the same style…the Diva Lena and her nice Nikita who is charmed with girl’s beauty

Lena and Nikita had a great ballet preparation in 2010/11, but they lost it. Their postures are far from a ballet postures. They have constantly their heads forward (you will never see a ballet dancer with a head like that). Nikita’s head is even more forward than Lena’s head. A ballet dancer has a beautiful and very gracefull line of back, neck and head, they use to put their head almost a backward a little bit.
Lena with not good position of hands and head (also the position of her legs are ugly):
20ti80p.jpg

A ballet dancer:
i3f03q.jpg

Lena:
2nr3p5z.jpg

2yn5u74.jpg

Ballerina:
29cxh6t.jpg
352rtxg.jpg

Lena and Nikita (not good Lena ‘s hands and both of them have heads forward):
5wkpdk.jpg

Ballerina:
2zo9h95.jpg

Lena:
2a4tptw.jpg

Ballerina:
ej9301.jpg

Sisinka, I hope you'll accept this input by someone who has honestly enjoyed your analysis in the past: you should consider re-reading your posts before posting them to make sure you don't give too much of an impression that you really hate, haaate I/K.
That is unfortunately the impression I increasingly get from you.
I have listened to your arguments and agreed with most of them. But there's a point when strongly disliking a team leads to see everything they do as bad in a fashion that's unfair.
…in both dances they are both waving to each other with their arms in first seconds of the dance…
really? come on now. "waving to each other with their arms"?
…both dances were created in the same style…the Diva Lena and her nice Nikita who is charmed with girl’s beauty
Most FD are with the concept that the man adores the woman: Sheherazade, Phantom of the Opera, Romeo and Juliet,...

yes, they are fast and they have deep edges but we have absolutely no idea how much fast and much deep edges they would have skating close to each other…
Absolutely no idea, since they never ever ever skate close to each other. Another very objective assessment. :no:

You further went through several pictures from them to find the ones where they look the least flattering in the middle of a motion.
You do realize that the overall consensus on your beloved Bobrova/Soloviev, not only on this forum but also from most figure skating experts, is that her -comparatively- poor posture is distracting and -comparatively- unflattering? So you should consider the possible outcomes of spending so much time finding pictures of unflattering I/K postures and comparatively beautiful ballet pictures (ballet dancers don't have to stroke, so I guess it's easier for them not to hunch forward) since someone might decide to waste just as much time and end up showcasing Bobrova's far poorer posture. I won't.

Now that you did educate us on why noone should enjoy it when I/K skate, I hope you'll leave it at technical analysis and enjoying the Olympics yourself.
 

emdee

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
hypocrite much ?

Worlds 2013 anyone, the Canadians were the worst :rolleye:
booing and cheering for Chan who won a fraud gold landing on his butt

I dont think you were there last year - no booing at all.... we Canadians are the worst as we are forever cheering for everyone. M&C for example got a standing ovation as did Yuna!!!
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Sisinka, I hope you'll accept this input by someone who has honestly enjoyed your analysis in the past: ...that you really hate, haaate I/K.
That is unfortunately the impression I increasingly get from you.

And my impression from you is that you protect I&K more than others, why not V&M or D&V, many people discuss them saying that they like or don’t like them, some of them even say why.

But from the beginning…I am writing mostly about dances, many of you are writing to many topics, it is nice to know that you have such a deep knowledge of every discipline and write your opinions about everything, but that is one of reasons why my posts for dances are long, I don’t put my opinions into so many topics, just to dance topics mainly…

really? come on now. "waving to each other with their arms"?....

If I touch you or somebody else with words used to the couple, I am deeply sorry, I used words which are used in skating, translating them into English, probably it was a wrong translation, I can correct it into ”the costumes which suits an mature body the most, and which are suitable to be shown on public”, “ moving their arms towards each other”, “Nikita who is charmed because he has such choreography”, is it better and not touching you? If I am wrong once again, correct it, you are better in English than I am.

As to tutu and costuming, I think that people should plan what to wear and what they want to gain wearing this or that. Talking about ballet costume I think that you will be confused thinking if you ever saw anything like that in theatre watching a ballet…
1zewm12.jpg

33kc5k8.jpg

…because Lena’s skirt is going up every second move, I used clips to show you (they are NOT in moment of lifts or turns, when it would be normal that a skirt goes up), even more surprising for me is the fact that Lena is using such ”moving up” skirt not for the first time, so she must know what is the skirt doing the whole dance…what is bewildering is also the fact that the camera taken this was on judge’s side, so most of such infamous skirt’s moves are done with Lena’s backside towards judges…do you mean, that this is OK? Is it helping to create a story of Swan Lake or woman in love??? Is it a tribute to all ballet dancers and their ballet work???

Most FD are with the concept that the man adores the woman: Sheherazade, Phantom of the Opera, Romeo and Juliet,...

Swan Lake, really?…Swan moves of a woman wearing Black Swan costume?...A man in love with costume which suits Rothbart, who is making and moving his arm like it would be almost wings of some devil – bad genious, maybe?

You further went through several pictures from them to find the ones where they look the least flattering in the middle of a motion.,...

As to taking picture of Lena and Nikita, most of them were taken by journalist or professional photographers and you can be sure that those sort of people choose the best one photos they have. And looking the photos I took the peak of the movement not the beginning or ”in working process” second. But watching free dance live shows even more that choreography and performance is far to ideal one.

You do realize that the overall consensus on your beloved Bobrova/Soloviev, not only on this forum but also from most figure skating experts, is that her -comparatively- poor posture is distracting and -comparatively- unflattering? Since someone might decide to waste just as much time and end up showcasing Bobrova's far poorer posture. I won't.

Bobrova is far away from ballet posture and Zhulin is smart enough not to put a ballet piece to them. I never wrote that I admire Bobrova’s posture, but frankly I don’t like her posture althought she improved in it…she needs to improve more in it.

If I love Bobrova & Soloviev or not….I will try to explain…I always preferred talented hard-workers in front of talented ones who are not working hard…I always preferred difficult and demanding programs in front of simple programs…I always preferred an art in front of posing…I always preferred skating to the rhythm more than not skating to the rhythm…I always preferred dancing in front of making elements only….do you really think that B&S are the only couple who can be in my taste looking at what I prefer? You are smart, you will find for sure which couples are making such strict criterias and which are not.

Now that you did educate us on why noone should enjoy it when I/K skate, I hope you'll leave it at technical analysis and enjoying the Olympics yourself.

Dear Frenchie, if you really waste your time reading my posts, you could make an analysis of your own better than you did. I love skating and dancing. That is the reason why I am against opinions that I&K are so great in every aspect which touches ice dance. I don’t agree. You could notice that nobody on this board try to persuade us that Reeds or Zhiganshina & Gazsi are the best dancers on the world. They are not. But I don’t agree with making conclusions in style that I&K are the best or the best right after V&M ot even BETTER than V&M. They are not.

I am surprised that you who is such a detailman make so big mistake writing that nobody should enjoy I&K. I enjoy them also, like a couple who knows to do deep edges and who have nice moving across the ice. I always wrote again and again that every fan can like and love any skater no matter if that skater is really great dancer, if she or he can really dance or not. I don’t think that Reeds are great dancers but I am absolutely for people who support that couple, they surely deserve it. The same with all other couples. Love who you want…but this doesn’t mean that when you love your couple – those two must be the best in all qualities which are important for ice dancing. I loved Kerr’s expression of music but I never started to say that they were the best technicians. You are putting into my mouth something what I never said, on the contrary something what I was always against…to make somebody not enjoy the team just because they don’t have the best qualities. If you really love I&K, if you are really their fan, you will continue to love them even knowing that they lack some qualities which they should have to be one of the best couples.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
Sisinka, I wrote
Sisinka, I hope you'll accept this input by someone who has honestly enjoyed your analysis in the past: you should consider re-reading your posts before posting them to make sure you don't give too much of an impression that you really hate, haaate I/K.
When quoting me in your post, you deleted "you should consider re-reading your posts before posting them to make sure you don't give too much of an impression that" and only left "you really hate, haaate I/K."
I find that regrettable, as I see a reflection of your overall approach to discussion. "you're 100% with me, or you're my biggest enemy".
I am surprised that you who is such a detailman make so big mistake writing that nobody should enjoy I&K.
I'll assume that's not what you're really thinking, since I believe you know very well that I do enjoy them, and I said that you're the one suggesting that with your constant bashing of them on objective things I agreed with as well as subjective things that I believe to be based on your strong dislike for them. Here's what I wrote:
Now that you did educate us on why noone should enjoy it when I/K skate, I hope you'll leave it at technical analysis and enjoying the Olympics yourself.
I think after all those misrepresentations about what I said, you have forever lost any claim to criticize anyone for "putting words in your mouth", as that's what you're constantly doing.
If anyone tells you "don't be so harsh on them!", you answer with "what, so you're saying they should be world/olympic champions?" Those are 2 completely different things, and I refuse to acknowledge that you're not perfectly aware of it when you write those posts in which you pretend you're not aware of it.
You're treating I/K vs B/S like a political campaign where "your candidate" is the good one and "the opponent" gets all the smear campaign and misrepresentation you can come up with.

And my impression from you is that you protect I&K more than others, why not V&M or D&V, many people discuss them saying that they like or don’t like them, some of them even say why.
Obviously, reading through 99% of your posts, one can hardly have the idea to "defend" anyone else than I/K, since they're the ones getting your constant repetitive bashing.
Even when you comment on another pair, you always sneak in some side blow to I/K.

Dear Frenchie, if you really waste your time reading my posts
I meant it when I said that I enjoyed reading your analysis and that I agree with most you've said. I'm afraid that part didn't make it through to you.

About your insinuation that Ilinykh is too fat to wear that dress, I'll just refer to the Huffington Post article about "Russia's Ice Dancing Team's Black Swan Outfits Win The 2014 Winter Olympics For Style"

To sum it up, to my first sentence
Sisinka, I hope you'll accept this input by someone who has honestly enjoyed your analysis in the past: you should consider re-reading your posts before posting them to make sure you don't give too much of an impression that you really hate, haaate I/K.
you could just have answered
no, I do not accept this input.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecWgqEZfkow Don Quijote 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkzuwoNa5-k Swan Lake

When I heard for the first time that Morozov created Swan Lake program, my first note was that it would be Don Quijte number 2. Than I forgot to think about it. With your comment I went to watch that performance and yes, Morozov really copied some moments from Don Quijote…which is not a very original and definitely it is not very nice to Zhulin who created Don Quijote choreography.

It only starts with tutu…but this year it is more long to hide Lena’s thighs and backside (unfortunately you really need to be too slim to wear such dress, probably only Cappellini and Pechalat could wear tutu without any fear)…
…the first pose…Lena and Nikita stands far to each other (but position of hands are different), in Don Quijote the couple is hypnotizing the judges with their eyes, in Swan Lake only Lena is hypnotizing judges, while Nikita is watching her…
…in both dances they are both waving to each other with their arms in first seconds of the dance…
jucz20.jpg
x
10xhhqw.png

...in Don Quijote there are two moments when Lena lays on Nikita’s leg or almost on Nikita’s leg – very similar to Swan Lake slow part just before the spin..
96jdl3.jpg
x
i6du8l.png
54yems.png

…there is a very similar movement made by Lena with crossed legs and with looking at judges – in Don Quijote after a lift, in Swan Lake at the beginning…
zjiems.jpg
x
k9ga5u.png

…the same kind of spin with Lena’s free leg is up…
…both dances were created in the same style…the Diva Lena and her nice Nikita who is charmed with girl’s beauty…
…both programs have some moments when Lena keeps her pose (on one leg or two legs)…really nothing happens too quickly…
…both dances had many ballet-like movements…

If you will watch these two performances…you will also notice what is different…in 2011 the choreography was more difficult (but not so difficult like top couples that year)…Lena had great posture and hours spent with a ballet coach Vlasova were very visible…the couple had also deeper edges in 2011…they were faster…their twizzles travelled more across the ice…and their choreography was much more concentrated to all details (especially this seasons they are much more wild and not finishing movements and Lena’s gloves only make it more visible). In 2011 they had a majesty while performing Don Quijote, this season with their postures with heads forward, it looks like they saw a ballet class three years ago for the last time…and in 2011 there was a little posing and making faces on judges, this season it takes a half of programs. In 2011 they both had parts equivalent as to difficulty, last three seasons Lena has much more simple part than Nikita.

Thank you. I thought I remembered some of the choreography but I've been too lazy to do the actual comparison! Given their lack of success with programs that don't involve a tutu, I wouldn't be surprised to see more ersatz-ballet in their future...
 

uncchristine99

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
To me, Virtue and Moir's long dance does not have any particular theme or coherence.

Each time they perform it, it seems to 'convey' something else. Each time, I'm almost bored, to be honest. Even the numerous dress changes (with each dress being completely different than the previous one) proves to me that they do not have a clue themselves how to present this program and what it is really about. JMO.

I agree with y'all on V/M... that FD is just blah. I thought it was more interesting here than it has been all season but it's still just not that interesting. I think they are trying to play D/W's game too much--they're too focused on the lifts and making them into wow factor/crowd pleaser elements and I think the lack of confidence toward these lifts is filtering down into the elements they can usually do in their sleep (like step sequences). They are visibly labored on the lifts but what was more shocking was that they really did get a level 2 for the diagonal step. Holy cow and well, that explains the 7-point spread.

D/W finished wonderfully but seemed a bit tight to me... it wasn't as easy and flowy as it had been at Nationals but I guess there wasn't much to deduct either. The twizzles were the only visible error so maybe they should dock 1 point for GOE at best.

I thought all the free dances looked slow and labored. Is it an altitude thing? Dunno what elevation in Sochi is. I also feel like camera angle is a bit different... the camera seems to be sitting lower in the seating levels because when the skaters come really close to the judges, you're not looking down on the top of their heads but more across the boards at them. I felt that particularly during all the circular step sequences.

I/K are really exciting... I first saw their FD at Europeans and thought they were so sexy and sharp. They don't have the polish of the veteran teams but are definitely worth keeping an eye on in the next quad. I don't agree with them scoring so close to V/M even despite V/M's troubles.

So far, the judging seems to favor D/W, P/B and I/K. We fans have talked so much about D/W and V/M going 1-2 with either team on top. So far this season, we know that V/M are chasing D/W but following the team event, could it be that V/M aren't a lock for silver either? Please comment... I really don't know enough about other teams to give a full opinion. Could the judges make this happen assuming there are no major mistake from the top contenders?
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Frenchie, do not waste your breath trying to reason with Sisinka. Rarely have I encountered a poster so devoted to denigrating and hating a pair. She is so well versed in giving a reasoned argument as to why all must have a similar point of view. It would honestly be best to ignore her increasingly unpleasant posts. I love I/K's skating shortcomings and all and I feel no need for anyone to convince me otherwise. If what they were doing was so easy, everyone would be able to do what they do, and get the scores that they do when clean. But every pair has a style that works best for them. The entire top 10 has some very brilliant skaters, each having their own strengths and weaknesses, but I' m not going to sit here and write a thesis about the flaws of any of them, I'm too busy appreciating them for what they do well.
 

Sk8n Mama

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
You know, this has been the narrative that has gotten the most play over the last couple years. Not sure where it started, but it's following the old adage that if something is said often enough, it must be true, even if its not. Unfortunately, not enough people have bothered to correct this statement often enough. And the truth is, this statement doesn't hold up to fact. While V was injured, she has come back stronger than ever before. As a team, V/M are stronger physically and technically than they ever were. They are faster, cleaner edges, new elements every year, and deeper interpretation. When you look at their body of work over the last few years, its Latin, Broadway, and Modern. They've pushed the boundaries of the sport each and every year. Carmen was an absolutely incredible achievement. This year's free dance is a masterpiece, and a gift to themselves and their fans. Maybe it isn't a "blockbuster" as Kurt would describe D/W, but there are more outstanding movies than blockbusters. And this is a sport. It shouldn't be about personal preference in music, but how one skates, as measured against specific criteria, whatever the music. And their skating skills, choreography, how they interpret (as opposed to skate to) every nuance and beat of the music, the closeness with which they skate, the lines, the quality and depth of edge, the emotion, the chemistry...its stunning, and unmatched anywhere. Its the stuff that dance has always been about, but mysteriously the last couple of years has taken a back seat in judges marks. What I hope for the individual events is the same standards applied to all teams, and PCS and GOE that match the technical rules, and applied to all the same way, without bias or personal preference.
:clap:
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
It only starts with tutu…but this year it is more long to hide Lena’s thighs and backside (unfortunately you really need to be too slim to wear such dress, probably only Cappellini and Pechalat could wear tutu without any fear)…
.

I do not want to start the weigh issue, but you must be kidding, right?? Lena is slim and has beautiful figure. I don't think there is much difference between her and Cappellini. She looks gorgeous in tutu, shorter or longer.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Sisinka - Thank you for your well argued observations on I/K. It does indeed look a bit like you're on a vendetta against them ;) but I appreciate your point of view and the effort that went into phrasing your posts.

I see some transitions attempt for Virtue/Moir. Good. Entrance and exit of first one is still like a junior program but they changed entrance of last step sequence. I think they lost a level because of this change.

I don't think Zoueva could care less about transitions. :p
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Sisinka, I wrote

When quoting me in your post, you deleted "you should consider re-reading your posts before posting them to make sure you don't give too much of an impression that" and only left "you really hate, haaate I/K."
I find that regrettable, as I see a reflection of your overall approach to discussion. "you're 100% with me, or you're my biggest enemy".

My answer would be the same even if I would quote the whole sentence.

I'll assume that's not what you're really thinking, since I believe you know very well that I do enjoy them, and I said that you're the one suggesting that with your constant bashing of them on objective things I agreed with as well as subjective things that I believe to be based on your strong dislike for them. Here's what I wrote: Now that you did educate us on why noone should enjoy it when I/K skate, I hope you'll leave it at technical analysis and enjoying the Olympics yourself.

I wrote: I am surprised that you who is such a detailman make so big mistake writing that nobody should enjoy I&K. - I am sorry for this sentence, I wanted to express that - "I am surprised that you who is such a detailman make so big mistake writing that I pushed people to not enjoy the couple."
 

apgold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Country
United-States
I agree with y'all on V/M... that FD is just blah. I thought it was more interesting here than it has been all season but it's still just not that interesting. I think they are trying to play D/W's game too much--they're too focused on the lifts and making them into wow factor/crowd pleaser elements and I think the lack of confidence toward these lifts is filtering down into the elements they can usually do in their sleep (like step sequences). They are visibly labored on the lifts but what was more shocking was that they really did get a level 2 for the diagonal step. Holy cow and well, that explains the 7-point spread.

I wish they had the balls to skate to "Carmen" this season. I find this "Seasons" program underwhelming, whereas, IMO "Carmen" was a showstopper - they really should've won Worlds last year. I know some people didn't think that Tessa could be a convincing temptress, but I loved it because it has a storyline, jaw dropping lifts and they rarely messed up their twizzles.

That said, I like Tessa's new costume, it's very striking. The pink dress she wore earlier looked like lingerie and the white at Nationals was too bridal looking.

I think they are still a lock for silver if they skate clean.
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
I do not want to start the weigh issue, but you must be kidding, right?? Lena is slim and has beautiful figure. I don't think there is much difference between her and Cappellini. She looks gorgeous in tutu, shorter or longer.

The same I do - no weigh issues. Lena is slim. I think her tutu or tutu like skirts are longer than that one in 2010/11 season, but maybe it was just arranged in a different way. Why is it longer is not important at all.

vqs9x4.jpg

33ttbau.jpg

iw0obp.jpg

2ev6kb6.jpg
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
To me, I/K seemed cautious, as to avoid making any mistakes, compared to their Euro FD (until the fall) when they absolutely commanded your attention. That is understandable I guess, they need to build their confidence back, but their performance was not their best. Clean and got the job done but no sparkle.
I don't love V/M's FD and D/W's FD is too frenetic for my taste (the second step sequence was absolutely brilliant though and that speed!!).
I was sad we didn't get to see P/B's FD again, it is my favorite FD this season :love:
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
If what they were doing (I&K) was so easy, everyone would be able to do what they do, and get the scores that they do when clean.

I borrowed your comment to COR B&S free dance:
But seriously will speed and ice coverage get you a PCS score of 53, even with a bad fall, bad posture and recycled, unimaginative choreography?

It would be so nice if judging would be fair and couples were appreciated looking at their skating and dancing.
You know your favourite couple very well, so you know how many mistakes they made at Nationals and European and how much was their presentation effected with it. They were clean at the Olympic Team Free Dance.

I&K Russian Nationals PCS: 55,55 9,32 9,07 9,14 9,50 9,30 (GOE + 10,59)
I&K European PCS: 54,69 9,14 8,86 9,18 9,36 9,21 (GOE +9,42)
I&K Team Free Dance PCS: 54,12 9,00 8,68 9,25 9,25 9,18 (GOE +10,16)

This is how judges see ice dance cathegory?
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
We have many misunderstandings with Frenchie and Bramweld…and it is leading to nowhere.
You, Frenchie, have some impression from me, but other users don’t bother you and an impression from them is OK…???

Bramweld used many words towards me in different posts:
Finally someone who sees this pile of mud slinging for what it is!! Can we reign in these extreme posts? Sisinka's attitude toward the pair is clearly toxic…

A whole lotta stuff just got really weird on this thread. Like rabid beasts yeah!!

I did say her (I don't know if I am correct here) comments seemed prejudiced….
I just have a problem with so many persons seeming preoccupation to paint them in as worst a light as possible without valid reason. Or at least it baffles me as to why persons need to do this. This in essence is my point.

Actually I'm not interested in proving her right or wrong. I sort of just move on very quickly where disagreements are concerned or I would like to think so. It was just an opinion.

Bramweld is not interesting in proving me if I am wrong or right but he is interested in proving everybody here that I must be somebody with toxic attitude…


Hanca‘s notes to my person:
hanca said:
The thing is, if someone WANTS to believe something, no matter what I post will persuade them otherwise…. Haters luckily can't influence their skating results, so as long as I/K get on with it, they will be fine! If sisinka finds them so bad, I suggest that she use them as toilet or snack break and does not bother to watch them.

Sisinka, I am really not going to bother to engage with you in long discussions on how bad I/K is… Your writing style shows sort of desperation!

Frenchie tried to calm this crazy situation explaining that Hanca didn’t think that I am a hater, but Hanca herself never answered if I was really wrong thinking that “hater“ was to me.

Where did those people come from? This is a figure skating discussion board, so figure skating and things connecting with the sport should be talked. And what those people doing? I am a person who is used to make an analysis and if there is some question I am trying to find the answers. It is essencial for my job, and unfortunately to I&K fans, it is an essencial for skating as well. You will get nowhere in skating with just saying: “No, I don’t think so, don’t bother me and don’t force me to think about it!“ Exploring why many things happen is an important part of skating, it is pushing the sport to step on next level, fans and even most of skaters don’t see it, but it doesn’t mean that it does not exist. I say my opinions, I come with arguments which are proving my opinions and those people start to punish me like I wouldn’t be normal. There is a space for them to come with their opinions and arguments which are connecting with skating, not with me, but they don’t want to waste their time to look for facts, but they spend a lot of time to think up and come with abusive words to me.
Am I wrong? Prove it. Or you don’t want to waste your time proving it, fine. In any case, don’t offend me.

We are talking about ice dancing but where is dancing? Where are great skilled skaters and difficult programs? Where are couples who know what dancing means and who know to dance. I see some of them…as well as I see that some skaters are not reaching those qualities which makes from a dancer really great dancer. Past three years I&K are a couple which I put into a second group of skaters (maybe not forever, they are really very young and if they start to work hard, they can improve in everything). Unfortunately they are the only ones from that second group who are trying to look like and their fans are definitely behaving like they already got the level of top couples. If Zhiganshina & Gazsi or Tobias & Stagniunas got so high marks for their skating, I would be protesting against such marking and I would protest against people saying that the couples are almost the best what ice dancing cathegory offers. But no, those couples are plus minus on place where they belong.

If not taking into account B&S, P&B and W&P, I can imagine even C&L with World medal more than I&K. D&W and V&M and probably C&L are a role models for all children who are skating and switching to dance in their countries, those kids try to be like them. If I&K will be crowned a World medal what those kids would copy from them – skating out of the rhythm? Open holds with so big distance between the couple? Posing and sending kisses to judges? Not expressing the story? Not excepting music with choreography? Not extended free leg? I don’t like Andrew’s not extended free leg as well as I don’t like Bobrova‘s posture but all couples which took part at GPF have many things which could be offered and teached. Except I&K’s deep edges in some parts on their dances I have really no idea what I could take from the couple and teached it young ones, who want to know and keep asking: “How are great dancers doing it?“ The way I&K does definitely not!

The problem is not in I&K or in me but in judging system and judges themselves who allows that the couple or couples missing many dancing qualities can reach a high placement. This is not how should ice dancing look like. Or it should change the name into something like “moving on ice“ or “skating with music behind“.

All former dancers dancing under old judging system knew a lot about dancing and even not good technicians like Margaglio or Kostomarov could dance. Why is dancing completely put down with new judging system? Why are judges giving marks which are not reflected skater’s performances? 9,18 points for timing with out of the rhythm parts? Really? 10 points for choreo with falls? Really? I would be silly to say that old judging system was objective, but it never happened that not good dancers would try to reach top five at Worlds like I&K does.

Please, I spent some time to explain why I have a criticism to I&K (without persuading anyone not to like the couple), when my criticism to C&L a W&P is not so big – they are dancers, even with not precise technique (but still getting not bad levels) they are continuing in pushing themselves into direction of dancing. I would be pleased if posts from persons who “don’t want to waste their time with me“ didn’t once again to try to push me into a position of somebody who hates the couple or who is toxic or anything more or less abusive.
 

TheGothicEme

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
oh whatever sisinka, Ilinykh/Katsalapov have no chance to win a medal with that funny thing of a FD. and then, their SD is not likely can end up in top 5 either. You know what, I even put Sinitsina Zhiganshin above them.
IK are good looking and all, and once upon a time, when I had no ideal what ice dance was, I was their fan. Not much now, you see.
 
Top