Joy of 6: The thrill is gone It'll be computerized scoring at next Worlds | Golden Skate

Joy of 6: The thrill is gone It'll be computerized scoring at next Worlds

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Joy of 6: The thrill is gone
It'll be computerized scoring at next Worlds


Here is an excellent article on the 6.0 marking system.

Joy of 6: The thrill is gone
It'll be computerized scoring a


By TERRY JONES -- Edmonton Sun

DORTMUND, Germany -- This is where they deep-six the 6.0.

This is where they'll hold last rites for all the wrongs.

This is where they'll leave all those magical moments when 6.0 said what adjectives couldn't completely communicate - and, yes, those other nights when it spelled out how sick this sport has been and, until proven otherwise, remains.

The Canadian storyline at the World Figure Skating Championships, which open here today, is the possible end of a streak of 22 consecutive Worlds with Canada putting people on the podium. But the end of the run for 6.0 is a Canadian story, too.

It's a Canadian-made "solution" which will be put into play through the world next year if the whole deal is ratified at the ISU Congress in June as expected. The system was used for Grand Prix events this year.

If there is a 6.0 skate at Worlds next year in Moscow or the year after in Calgary, not to mention the 2006 Olympic Winter Games in Turin, Italy, it'll be spit out of a computer as a 247.3, or some such number, which will send no one into rapture or have them look for the French judge, either.

That the Russians are dead set against the new system is enough for me. If they don't like it, I love it.

"If you do an informal survey with the figure skating community here, the vast majority will be very glad to see this week over with and the current system dead and buried," says Paul Martini, the Canadian skating legend who will be back behind a microphone as CBC returns as World Figure Skating Championship rights holders.

"Everyone has reached the point where this system tastes really bad," he said.

True enough. But there's going to be a feeling of loss, too. Maybe somebody here will get the last 6.0.

I, for one, am going to miss ol' Six Point Zero. So many major memories in this sport are hooked to the number.

The first time it moved me was at the Sarajevo Olympic Winter Games where Torvill & Dean strung 6.0s across the board.

SOME SPECIAL NIGHTS

Figure skating fans from coast to coast in Canada have memories of special 6.0 nights.

In Edmonton, they'll always remember the 1996 Worlds when Lu Chen of China put up two 6.0s and American Michelle Kwan put up four 6.0s to beat her.

Kwan, incidentally, won her first Worlds that year. She's here this year to try for her fifth.

I flew from Frankfurt to Dusseldorf with her and brought the subject up.

"Of course, that's a moment I'll never forget," she said. "I don't know that it'll be the same without that number."

Maybe she'll be the one to get the last 6.0 here.

The fans in Calgary at the 2000 Canadians saw one to treasure, too.

Kurt Browing's Casablanca routine was the acknowledged Canadian classic until Jamie Sale and David Pelletier perfected their Love Story that year.

It was five 6.0s. No Canadian pairs team had ever been given one before. But mostly it was the feeling, the realization you had experienced something exceptional, something extraordinary, something exquisite.

I'll always remember Canadian skating great Barbara Underhill sitting in the stands that night.

"I wasn't just crying. I was sobbing uncontrollably," said the former skater who has also hooked up with the CBC crew here.

UNFORGETTABLE FEELING

"It was everything I miss about skating. How can I explain it? I was out there. I was remembering what it felt like to bring the audience in. It was unlike anything I have ever seen in pairs skating. I've never seen anything like that anywhere, ever. I've never seen a pair have an audience in their hands like that."

Will it be the same without the 6.0s as exclamation marks?

Then there were the other ones when even the Canadian judges started to use the number to try and promote Canadian skaters.

Like that night at Canadians in Saskatoon last year, the year after the Sale & Pelletier Salt Lake Olympic judges scandal when longtime figure-skating announcer Guy Cormier read out the numbers one by one for Shae-Lynn Bourne and Victor Kraatz - 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0 - but had no illusion Torvill & Dean had been reinvented.

Or the time in Hamilton when Elvis Stojko was given six of them - two for artistic impression, blowing the Canadian judges' credibility.

Maybe the new system will be more fair. But will it be the cure? Will a new system prevent the same judges from cheating? You can make the case that now it's easier. Now they're anonymous. In the 6.0 system, you could finger the French judge the minute the scores went up.

Until the ISU gets its head out of the sand and realizes that as long as national associations appoint and bring their own judges to these events, they'll continue to commit the crimes.

In an honourable world, the 6.0 wouldn't have had to go.
 

RealtorGal

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Re: Joy of 6: The thrill is goneIt'll be computerized scoring at next Worlds

Ladskater said:
Kwan, incidentally, won her first Worlds that year. She's here this year to try for her fifth.

Don't these writers ever check their facts before these articles are published? Sheesh! :eek: :confused: :p
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
RealtorGal:

Here are the results from the World Championships the writer is refering to:

1995, Birmingham, England 1 Lu Chen CHN 2 Surya Bonaly FRA 3 Nicole Bobek USA 4 Michelle Kwan USA

1996, Edmonton, Alberta 1 Michelle Kwan USA 2 Lu Chen CHN 3 Irina Slutskaya RUS 4 Maria Butyrskaya RUS
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The thing Realtor Girl is talking about is "going for her fifth World title." Kwan already has five, she's going for her sixth World title. Go Kween!! (sorry but the QR is about to start anytime and I'm bit anxious).
 

thvudragon

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
:confused: I think that article is horrible. It can barely be called journalism, it's an editorial. Terry Jones is nothing but a hack, masquerading as a journalist. He writes and writes and writes, but ignores facts and does absolutely no research at all.

TV
 

Evdokia

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Re: Joy of 6: The thrill is goneIt'll be computerized scoring at next Worlds

That the Russians are dead set against the new system is enough for me. If they don't like it, I love it.
Hmm, very "mature" comment ... :rolleye:


In an honourable world, the 6.0 wouldn't have had to go.
But with this one: how true! :(
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
I actually disagree that going to CoP only has to do with cheating. I think it is a system that can produce more standarized and fair results than the 6.0 system even if all judges are 100% fair.

Also, I always has a problem with 6.0 for tech (though, to be fair, we haven't seen too many of those). There is always a way to improve technical difficulty. As to the presentation 6.0, I think we will be seeing 10.0's for presentation componenets. Also, how about this of "thrill" -- "and with the score of 87.6 she breaks the current world record!" Or even and this, "70.3, is his personal best!"
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
the ONLY thing I'll miss about the old system is hearing 6.0!

GOODBYE sucky 6.0 system... HELLO, CoP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
I'm with you Tonichelle!!

Maybe we'll get some outstanding performances in the medal rounds and get to hear a few "6.0's" for future sentimental value. Beyond that, goodbye and good riddance LOL!

DG
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Pitchka, ITA. The 6.0 system was based on skating elements so long-gone that almost nobody even remembers what they were. Even with perfect judging, the OBO had become obsolete.

I was never much impressed with the 6.0 because whether for technical or presentation, awarded by one judge or all, it is subjective. I recently saw a skater I like get a 6.0 for presentation for a performance in which she fell. Ridiculous!

OTOH, when Torvill & Dean skated "Bolero" in '84, nobody needed to see a string of 6.0s to know the earth moved. To me, the 6.0 has always been meaningless.

Give me a scoring system that is as fair as possible in a subjectively judged sport to the majority. Besides, there will be all kinds of new mountains to climb with the COP. For example, highest point value per program in international competition; in the component scores, first skater to get 10s from every judge for every component; first skater to get maximum scores with maximum bonus points for elements; etc. We could even keep stats on skaters, kind of like baseball.;)

Seriously, under the COP, there will be plenty of ecstatic scores to venerate, just as soon as people get used to it. In the NBA, 20 years ago final scores were well over 100. Rules and players changed; 100-point games became a rarity. Is pro basketball any less popular with final scores in the 80s?
Rgirl
 

rpiche

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
Ptichka said:
I actually disagree that going to CoP only has to do with cheating. I think it is a system that can produce more standarized and fair results than the 6.0 system even if all judges are 100% fair.

Also, I always has a problem with 6.0 for tech (though, to be fair, we haven't seen too many of those). There is always a way to improve technical difficulty. As to the presentation 6.0, I think we will be seeing 10.0's for presentation componenets. Also, how about this of "thrill" -- "and with the score of 87.6 she breaks the current world record!" Or even and this, "70.3, is his personal best!"


87.6 or 70.3 are just numbers, they don't convey the same meaning as a 6.0's. Besides, how do you score the presentation marks? Even if all the elements are done correctly, it doesn't mean they were done elegantly. Why couldn't they just rate the program for technical merits like in gymnastics and leave it at the 6.0's scale?


I think the new system will be a lot more "unfair" than 'fair."
 

rpiche

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
Rgirl said:
Pitchka, ITA. The 6.0 system was based on skating elements so long-gone that almost nobody even remembers what they were. Even with perfect judging, the OBO had become obsolete.

I was never much impressed with the 6.0 because whether for technical or presentation, awarded by one judge or all, it is subjective. I recently saw a skater I like get a 6.0 for presentation for a performance in which she fell. Ridiculous!

OTOH, when Torvill & Dean skated "Bolero" in '84, nobody needed to see a string of 6.0s to know the earth moved. To me, the 6.0 has always been meaningless.

Give me a scoring system that is as fair as possible in a subjectively judged sport to the majority. Besides, there will be all kinds of new mountains to climb with the COP. For example, highest point value per program in international competition; in the component scores, first skater to get 10s from every judge for every component; first skater to get maximum scores with maximum bonus points for elements; etc. We could even keep stats on skaters, kind of like baseball.;)

Seriously, under the COP, there will be plenty of ecstatic scores to venerate, just as soon as people get used to it. In the NBA, 20 years ago final scores were well over 100. Rules and players changed; 100-point games became a rarity. Is pro basketball any less popular with final scores in the 80s?
Rgirl

The new system will still be subjective when it comes to the presentation marks. Skating, especially for the ladies, is as much artistry as athleticism. And you can't measure artistry with a rubric. The whole is not necessarily a sum of its part.
 

Kateri

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
I'm excited by COP, but worried by the fact that skaters will now be penalised for altering their programmes on the fly, e.g if they miss a jump, that jump will have to stay missed, they can't add it in later on. They have to stick to the crib-sheet they submit beforehand.

How do people think this will affect things?

kat.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Kateri said:
I'm excited by COP, but worried by the fact that skaters will now be penalised for altering their programmes on the fly, e.g if they miss a jump, that jump will have to stay missed, they can't add it in later on. They have to stick to the crib-sheet they submit beforehand.

How do people think this will affect things?
I think it's something that needs tweaking. For example, change it so that skaters may retry one missed jump in the LP. If they land the missed jump cleanly, they don't get full credit, but they don't get penalized as much as if they'd fallen or doubled it. If they miss the missed jump again, they get a slight deduction off the original deduction--not much.

However, the problem skaters will have to face is if they want to try for that missed jump, will they have to miss another element? A spin, for example? If so, they might lose more than their potential gain.

I'm sure there are many far better solutions than mine, but then I don't really see not being able to retry a missed jump as a significant problem. With men and women doing six and seven triple programs, if you miss one, where are you going to put another one without leaving an element out and where are you going to get the energy. Most of the times I've seen skaters try to do this under OBO it's been disastrous. Remember Plush at '99 Worlds (I think it was '99) when he missed his first quad combo and spent so much of the program retrying it that he lost to one of Yags's brand new, very shaky "Tosca" when going into Worlds Plush looked unbeatable? Maybe retrying jumps is a good thing to discourage. But if skaters and coaches really feel strongly about it, I'm sure they can have a "one retry exception," though with some penalties.
Rgirl
 

Kateri

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Yeah, and at Euros, when Plush missed a few jumps, and quite obviously just threw his choreography out of the window, desperately trying to stuff in as many jumps as he could....not pretty. Maybe this will be for the best!

k
 
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