Is Lipnitskaya unbeatable? | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Is Lipnitskaya unbeatable?

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Caro has become very cautious in her LP to attempt a +3T combination. When the 1st jump isn't perfect, she doesn't force the issue and does a 2T.
I think her planned layout (on a perfect day!) is:

3Lz
2A
3F+3T
3Lo
3T+2T
3S+2T+2Lo
3S

On a day when the 3F isn't landed perfectly, but where she's still feeling mighty strong, the alternative would be:

3Lz
2A
3F+2T
3Lo
3T+3T
3S+2T+2Lo
3S

But the Men's SP has showed us how given the Olympic pressure, a little less risk might be rewarding, so I don't think it will come to this - but when the 1st jump is totally clean, a +3T is easy for her, even late in the program - it's just even less likely that she'd have that totally clean landing on the 1st.

The problem with the second layout is the 3T/3T is very late in the program. I disagree that such a thing would be "easy" for her.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
The problem with the second layout is the 3T/3T is very late in the program. I disagree that such a thing would be "easy" for her.

We both agree - I just formulated it awkwardly, saying "very unlikely for her to have a perfect enough landing on the 1st 3T - but if it is absolutely perfect, then it's easy for her even late in the program." ;)
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
No, she does some marvelous things, but her overall skating is still at least one level below that of Yu-na.
 

Manuel Pablo Arnao

Figure Skating Fan & Real Estate Agent in LA!
On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
If she didn't double a few jumps, her base value would have gone up by 1.5 + 3.7 = 5.2. This is with 6 triples.
Consider that she skipped the 3 jump combo. That should add another 3 points.

If Kostner has 7 triples LP, her BV should be 59-60. Her GOE should blow everyone out of the water.

exactly.

carolina got a 71 pcs, higher than julia, at europeans this year and that's with 2 popped triples and a fall. carolina has lost to julia this season because she hasn't been clean in both the short and the long programs (she's been injured and hasn't had enough time to train). in the team short, i believe she would have beaten julia had the competition been anywhere else but russia. julia's pcs have been inflated to an insane amount.

i definitely think carolina is in the top 3. i mean, she's medaled at the last three world championships. anyway, what kills carolina is that she loses concentration mid long program and doesn't think on her feet- she usually makes mistakes mid bolero. anyway, in the long, if she doubles the triple toe after the triple flip for example, she should add a triple toe to her other triple toe in the program. also, she really should add another double axel after her step sequence somewhere. 6 triples and 1 double axel as we saw at europeans this year may not cut it. a double axel/triple toe would give her 7 triples and 2 double axel and might be the best option- maybe she should place it after the step sequence somewhere...

if you see carolina skate in practice she hits triple lutz/triple toe, triple flip/triple toe, double axels/triple toes all the time. all her jumps are huge and effortless. she needs to bring that into the competition and be confident. however, at this point, i think it's more important for carolina to skate clean than to have a huge base value. she doesn't strike me as someone with a killer instinct like a julia or tara.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Why aren't there any threads on Caro poppin up? I almost posted one up today but got lazy. Seriously where are the Caro threads? I think she still has a good shot at podium. Gracie and Mao are wildcards for there own reasons. I may agree she has become less of a threat for the various reasons we've all discussed but she has the best skating style IMO and when landed maybe the 2nd best jumps in the field.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
This is complete hogwash, how can anyone ever think Julia is unbeatable when she has never even beaten Yuna?

That would be quite the feat for Yulia since they have never gone head to head. Same could be said of Yuna and be 100% correct.

No.. Lipnitskaya is 100% beatable.
 

ranjake

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
I think the LP is fine. No disrespect to anyone who feels that 'Schindler's List' shouldn't be skated too, but I feel like it affects me emotionally when Julia skates to it, and I think it's tough to do well so well-done, Julia. Now the SP/ with the hearts-on-the-ice and the Thunder? Is not my favorite. I find it corny and gimmicky from someone capable of far better.
 

jenm

The Last One Degree
Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Just my opinion but:
Yulia's skating isn't as unbeatable as her scores suggest. Also, the music (Schindler's List) carried her, not the other way around. Her spins are incredible but sometimes are travelling badly. Her movements seem unfinished to me and some transitions are abrupt and not smooth. Her jumps are in no way on par with Yuna's but are getting high GOEs like her. It's ridiculous. Without the inflation, I believe Carolina should have beaten her in SP.

But to be fair with Yulia though, she is a very talented girl. She can do spins like no one in the competition (I think) does. I just wished she would do them beautifully like Sasha Cohen. She's bending/flexing too much that the spins look stiff to me. I commend her nerves tho. She's very consistent and very focused. It's amazing for someone so young.
 

speople

Spectator
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
To answer your question, YES, YL is unbeatable.

For starters, her spins and flexibility have raised the world bar. People can have their favourites, and rightly so, but, to pretend that YL is not the best spinner and the most flexible skater on the planet is delusional.

Secondly, her speed. Have you ever seen how much ground this girl covers during her routines. She simply does not stop, unlike other skaters who slow down a hell of a lot to put the power in their take-off foot prior to jumping, Lipnitskaya throws her jumps in from out of nowhere. From a spectating pov, YL's jumps flow from the program, other skaters are constantly start-stop-restart etc which has always looked clumsy and forced since FS began.

Thirdly, she attempts and lands, the most difficult cascade on the tour. (Tatiana) Tarasova has also said to reporters in Sochi that the cascde that YL can do is not the only trick up her sleeve, that she has another 3-3 cascade no one has seen yet.

Fourthly, she has ALL the momentum. She's been absolutely flying since coming to international attention, whereas YK has been all but invisible recently. Sure, you can cut it with your own federation, even European's or World's, BUT, history has already shown with Torvill and Dean (one of the best pairs skaters ever) with Plushenko (arguably the greatest male figure skater ever) that you CAN NOT disappear then expect ANOTHER OGM to fall into your lap after coming out of retirement/professional status to try for a 2nd one.

Fifthly, YL (and the other great young skaters, esp in Russian atm) are the future of the sport. Judges WILL see YK, Kostner, Asada, as the sport's past.

Sixthly, Russia has never had a female singles champion. YL is arguably the best bet they've ever had, plus the games are in Russia, of course the OGM won't have been bought and paid for (whatever people may think), but homefield advantage WILL influence the judges to give slightly higher scores to YL.

Seventhly, she's got the confidence. She's already an OGM here, Kostner, Asada, Gold, Wagner, they've all had the pleasure of being beaten here by YL. No matter what they may say in public, in their minds, they've already admitted defeat.

Eighthly, to get the best picture, you look and read NOT what the fans are saying, but what commentating FS OGM's from the past are saying both on screen and during interviews, Lipinski, Cousins et al, they're awed by what YL is doing and the talent she has.

Conclusion: As long as YL stays on her feet (and she has rarely ever fallen), yes, YL is unbeatable at these games. And as long as she stays motivated, I honestly can't see anyone beating her for the next 10 years.

As Robin Cosuins said of her, "someone with that talent comes along in any country once in a lifetime".
He certainly thinks YL has the potential to become the greatest ladies FS who has ever lived, and RC's assessment is good enough for me.
 

YunaBliss

On the Ice
Joined
May 11, 2010
You obviously havent heard what Michelle Kwan said on Fox Sports today -- she knows a thing or two about skating^^
 

yuki90

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
As Robin Cosuins said of her, "someone with that talent comes along in any country once in a lifetime".
He certainly thinks YL has the potential to become the greatest ladies FS who has ever lived, and RC's assessment is good enough for me.

Cousins dismisses the notion.

"The beauty of YouTube is that you can see everybody skate.
There is no hiding anywhere now,he said.It's not going to change that much at the Olympics than it would have been at the national championships or any other event. Yuna will do what she always does when she steps on the ice.
I'm hoping she will perform the way she did at her national championships as it was glorious.”

 http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/...-skating-lipnitskaya-39-s-113805295--spt.html

Dorothy Hamil on YuNa and Lipnitskaya

In the ladies, I just can’t wait to see Kim Yuna! At her best, there’s nobody that can come close to her.
I haven’t seen her skate in a couple years, and I’m just so thrilled—I can’t wait to see her skate.

The question always is, what will happen when she starts to get curves?
That’s sort of when a lot of youngsters fall off the training wagon. They get to the point where their body
starts changing so much that it throws off timing, just that tiny infinitesimal change of balance and rotation
and physics. But that’s not going to happen for Yulia in the next week! Seeing that performance,she’s absolutely
a contender to be on the podium, so it’s going to be really fun to watch

http://parade.condenast.com/261492/...hamills-favorite-sochi-olympic-figure-skater/
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
That is a whole lot of gibberish.. but,

#4 ~ #8 on your list are pretty much an irrelevant (unrelated to the skater's merits) and wishful projection of yours. #1 is probably true although I do not know how much point a skater is supposed to get for being a contortionist. #2 is demonstrably false not only because there are faster skaters, but Yulia's problem is that she doesn't finish her moves clearly and cleanly. It's like she continues on to the next move before her prior move is complete, and this is what often leaves the impression of immaturity in Yulia's skating. She can and will improve on this over time, to be sure.

I'll give #3 to you as well. It's perhaps the single biggest weapon Yulia has in Olympic games that she lands her jumps. But here she is relying on others' mistakes. Not that it's not gonna happen (to the contrary, it's more than likely happen), but it's not entirely to Yulia's credit as you suggest. Hoping others to make mistakes for your win is kind of low, don't you think?
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
:confused: Yuna didn't disappear. She is the 2013 World Champion and didn't compete in the Grand Prix this year because of injury. If you want to give the Olympic Gold to a skater who did ALL the competitions then you have to give it to Mao, who even performed at her lowest low point and was ALWAYS (only missed GPF 2011/12 and we know why) competing in the last quad since Vancouver.
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Some of the Julia fans are delusional. Then there's a lot of people who know nothing about figure skating.

Julia is a talented 15 year old. She's good, she can get better. Just because she's a sensation doesn't mean she's the best figure skater in the world or close to it. It should be enough that -- for someone who has never competed on (individual) Olympic or World Ice -- she can skate well and compete for a medal. Let her score according to her actual talents at this time, and get off to a good start in her young career. Then watch her get better. But no, the delusional people want to dismiss her tiny jumps, weak skating skills, traveling spins, non-existent artistry, inability to hold edges, etc. and just straight call her the best unbeatable skater in the world. Insane.

Yuna Kim. Mao Asada. Carolina Kostner. Akiko Suzuki. These are great skaters that are not only talented (some more or less so than Julia), but have worked hard for many years to improve their skills and artistry. Their abilities are far beyond those of Julia's at this moment in time, when they skate well of course. Now, if they skate poorly and Julia does well enough to beat them fairly, then by all means good for her. But if they skate well, it would be a crime to dismiss their superior skating and performance abilities.
 

lovetmzaki

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Just my opinion but:
Yulia's skating isn't as unbeatable as her scores suggest. Also, the music (Schindler's List) carried her, not the other way around. Her spins are incredible but sometimes are travelling badly. Her movements seem unfinished to me and some transitions are abrupt and not smooth. Her jumps are in no way on par with Yuna's but are getting high GOEs like her. It's ridiculous. Without the inflation, I believe Carolina should have beaten her in SP.

But to be fair with Yulia though, she is a very talented girl. She can do spins like no one in the competition (I think) does. I just wished she would do them beautifully like Sasha Cohen. She's bending/flexing too much that the spins look stiff to me. I commend her nerves tho. She's very consistent and very focused. It's amazing for someone so young.

absolutely agree with you.
If Yulia haven't picked the Schindler's List, or dress as the girl in the red coat, it won't be as emotional.
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Some of the Julia fans are delusional. Then there's a lot of people who know nothing about figure skating.

I just don't see Julia beating Yuna. Even with Home Advantage. I don't know where this "unbeatable" comes from. She deservedly won the team event, even though the SP was borderline with Carolina performing the way she did. But Julia can also be beaten, look at her performance at CoR, Russian Nationals or when Mao beat her at GPF. I just don't see it happening - barring a breakdown from Yuna and the other veterans. I'm far from a Yuna fangirl, but I still think she will be Olympic Champion once more. Julia could get silver, but not higher. My two cents.
 

YunaBliss

On the Ice
Joined
May 11, 2010
Forget about Kim, who cares about her at this point other than her ubers?

If you are a skating fan, why wouldn't you care about Kim, who is going for a historic feat of two consecutive OGMs??? How often is that? If that is not something to care about, what is?? (unless... you are.... )
 
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