Page 11 of 15 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 225

Thread: Is Lipnitskaya unbeatable?

  1. #151
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,780
    http://www.usfsa.org/content/ISU%201...02012-2013.pdf

    Also, for Spins
    Poor/awkward position(s), slow, traveling -1 to -3

    As everyone with eyes can see that Julia's spins travel excessively (the worst of any other spinners), so whatever GOE she got will also carry a -3 GOE at the end. According to the rule book, her spin shouldn't get any + GOE unless she has at least 6 of these

    1) good speed or acceleration during spin
    2) ability to center a spin quickly
    3) balanced rotations in all positions
    4) clearly more than required number of revolutions
    5) good position(s) (including height and air position in flying spins)
    6) creativity and originality
    7) good control throughout all phases
    8) element matched to the musical structure

    She defnitely doesn't have 2, 3, 7, and possibly 8, so there's no way she would get +3 GOE. If she gets +2 GOE for her spin, -3 from that, it would be -1 GOE for the traveling spins.

    Again, that's the rule, clearly spelled out.

  2. #152
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,152
    FlattFann, that would be poor judging. Lipnitskaya's combination spin is one of the best in figure skating history. Even when it travels more than a little at the end she deserves +2 GOE on it. Who else can do a full 180 split while accelerating very quickly in a spin, without eventually traveling on it? Nobody ever.

  3. #153
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    9,688
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I agree and think in some ways she has. Gracie matched her US nationals score in the FS. Everyone knows those are inflated! I think Gracie's best international score before this for her FS was around 118. Was Gracie at her best. I don't think so. I saw room for fixing not unlike Julia which makes me actually happy because they have the ability to improve in the individial and skate even better. If Gracie went cleaner she could have scored a 135 in my opinion. Pretty nice boost considering she has no major international success in the portfolia. She looks able to break into 135 territory easily if you ask me. Julia should have been closer to 135 i have admitted since the scores came, Julia too, but I think most here still agree Julia won the show. I wouldn't be surprised to see all three Adelina,Gracie and Julia get boosted scores. Yuna will rise above em all unless she makes glaring mistakes.

    If you forget euros Julia's highest free skate outside of Russia comes in around 130.
    If you factor in Gracie's highest free skate score its 118

    Both got a 10 pt boost. Both didn't skate their best skates.

    No need to ridiicule either. You may not like what I post but why throw insults about being "enlightend" in a demeaning way?
    Gracie's pb was 125+ at worlds last year and was sixth. And help earn 3 spots for the us. That was with two errors. 117 was her seasons best. But she really underperformed until nationals.

    So no she did not get a boost. In fact most of the 4 point increase was in the technical mark.

    She can score a little bit higher, I think.

  4. #154
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    3,963
    Dear Flatty

    I've tried to respond to your posts before but I'm done. You just present extreme bias and offer no reasonable, let alone respectful, views. Good luck being uber negative. I've gone back and looked up Rachel Flatt vids and was going to argue on that front but after looking them up and noticing her jumps are smaller than Julia's and spins were all over the place I figured that would be mean. Besides, to each their own and frankly I can see what you like about her. It is weird that Julia has over 200,000 views on most of her video's from only two weeks ago. It's almost as if people like and admire her...especially her spins. I thought you said if Julia won a gold you were leaving cause she makes your skin crawl. Well...

    Is there an ignore button on this forum?

    Edit- I found out how to ignore.

  5. #155
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    3,963
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Gracie's pb was 125+ at worlds last year and was sixth. And help earn 3 spots for the us. That was with two errors. 117 was her seasons best. But she really underperformed until nationals.

    So no she did not get a boost. In fact most of the 4 point increase was in the technical mark.

    She can score a little bit higher, I think.
    You are I right I should have stated this seasons best for Gracie.

    If you factor in Julia's Euro skate then really she got no boost either...no?

    I think Gracie can compete for bronze and improve on her 129.

  6. #156
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Dear Flatty

    I've tried to respond to your posts before but I'm done. You just present extreme bias and offer no reasonable, let alone respectful, views. Good luck being uber negative. I've gone back and looked up Rachel Flatt vids and was going to argue on that front but after looking them up and noticing her jumps are smaller than Julia's and spins were all over the place I figured that would be mean. Besides, to each their own and frankly I can see what you like about her. It is weird that Julia has over 200,000 views on most of her video's from only two weeks ago. It's almost as if people like and admire her...especially her spins. I thought you said if Julia won a gold you were leaving cause she makes your skin crawl. Well...

    Is there an ignore button on this forum?

    Edit- I found out how to ignore.
    Well, I think Flattfan means not quality of Julia's spin, but her execution in the competitive context; that is his/her argument is more about judging inconsistency as opposed in the past, as I read in between the line. It used to be very easy to receive no ratification on spin or other elements before if it happens to neglect specific point of instruction. For instance, Kim once received 0 point at her final spin due to a very technical reason in 2009. But anyway, Julia's spin is wonderful.

  7. #157
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,365
    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    What are you seeing? Her 2As take off didn't deserve a deduction? Unless you have vertigo during her take off, there shouldn't be any confusion on how bad her take off is. Hello, a duck is a duck. A duck isn't a swan just because you can't see it clearly.
    I don't see it and neither do the judges. And you forgot to add "in my opinion."

  8. #158
    Custom Title ahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    463
    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTriple View Post
    Well, I think Flattfan means not quality of Julia's spin, but her execution in the competitive context; that is his/her argument is more about judging inconsistency as opposed in the past, as I read in between the line. It used to be very easy to receive no ratification on spin or other elements before if it happens to neglect specific point of instruction. For instance, Kim once received 0 point at her final spin due to a very technical reason in 2009. But anyway, Julia's spin is wonderful.
    You mean 2009 worlds?

  9. #159
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    3,963
    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTriple View Post
    Well, I think Flattfan means not quality of Julia's spin, but her execution in the competitive context; that is his/her argument is more about judging inconsistency as opposed in the past, as I read in between the line. It used to be very easy to receive no ratification on spin or other elements before if it happens to neglect specific point of instruction. For instance, Kim once received 0 point at her final spin due to a very technical reason in 2009. But anyway, Julia's spin is wonderful.
    Reading in between the lines of FlattFan is like saying there is a blade of grass in that desert. I don't think it's there nor am i gonna search for it but I don't doubt you can find one.

    I respect your analysis regarding judging but at some point you're going to have to acknowledge that until ISU requires the judges to follow a strict guideline to award GOE, it will NEVER be consistent. It clearly states the bullet points and amount awarded is nearly a suggestion and that the judge can base GOE on different criteria not listed. So is this applied to edge calls too. So could crowd reaction be one factor a particular judge goes on to award jump or spin GOE? Is that fair and how could it be consistent? Shouldn't this be represented in the presentation score alone? Like I said earlier in this thread, its a loaded gun for a narrow mind. That is why FlattFann who said Julia's best jumps should be -3 GOE and her spins-2 isn't wrong and neither would someone who awarded +3's either. Both views very biased and detrimental to the sport as a whole but could be argued as justifiable. Fortunately compared to some of the over the top and flat out outlandish things people post here the judges suddenly carry an air of fairness.

  10. #160
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Albuquerque
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    It clearly states the bullet points and amount awarded is nearly a suggestion and that the judge can base GOE on different criteria not listed. .
    Where do you see this? When I read the ISU communication I see this for GOE: "In marking the GOE the following must be considered." Then it lists the criteria. I don't see "suggestion" nor "can base on criteria not listed". Can you help me find this please?

  11. #161
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    3,963
    http://www.usfsa.org/content/2013-14...hing%20GOE.pdf
    This link was provided to me some time back by another user. It's the last sentence in the first paragraph.

    So crowd factor cannot be used. I was wrong on that thank god. But it does say the number of bullet points satisfied to award GOE is a suggestion. The bulletpoints are pretty much up for interpretation too. If I'm wrong ill admit it but I see lots of room for inconsistency. That's my point.

  12. #162
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,780
    Some people can't read and can't see. Oh well, no big deal.
    Who else can do a full 180 split while accelerating very quickly in a spin, without eventually traveling on it? Nobody ever.
    So? Just because it's accelerating quickly doesn't mean you can negate the negative? Hello, there's a positive side, which she got + GOE for that specific "accelerating" There's also negative side, which she should be docked for travelling.

    Why have a rule against travelling and not use it? You like to selectively use the PCS and GOE all the time. Just like Russian judges.

  13. #163
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    465
    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Some people can't read and can't see. Oh well, no big deal.

    So? Just because it's accelerating quickly doesn't mean you can negate the negative? Hello, there's a positive side, which she got + GOE for that specific "accelerating" There's also negative side, which she should be docked for travelling.

    Why have a rule against travelling and not use it? You like to selectively use the PCS and GOE all the time. Just like Russian judges.
    She was docked for it in the long because she started traveling as soon as she hit the split position, but the rest of the positions were centered and well executed. Still she kept her position and still rotated at fast speed. Her GOE when completely centered in final position: 1.50. GOE here: 1.00. Does anyone else not understand that according to the criteria for GOE she could only have a -1 at most added to the +3s she normally gets for that spin? And that it what she got.

    If you watch a video of the short program you will see that she was almost completely centered through the transition into the split position and was 100% centered for the first seven revolutions in the full split position. At that point she had exceeded the requirements for revolutions while centered. The rest of the revolutions? Mere icing on the cake for those who think rotating at that speed, in that position is extraordinary.

    I put the video into Movie gallery, clipped the spin and then slowed it to 0.25x to count the revolutions. 37 revolutions in 15 seconds for the whole spin, but in the split position she had 21 revolutions in 7 seconds. I thought that was interesting.

    And another thing, why do people keep saying that she travels on her spins, like it's a general thing instead of something that happens only on the final position of a four-position combination spin? Also she traveled on it both times here, but check out the same spin in the FS at SC or the SP and FS at Europeans:100% centered. She is known for wanting to be perfect, so I'm sure her focus at that point of the SP and FS will be devoted solely to staying centered for the individual event.

  14. #164
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,780
    Travelling is travelling.
    At most -1 GOE? Read again. It's -1 to -3. Her travelling is the worst. If that doesn't warrant a -3 GOE, what will it take to get a -3 GOE? Let's twizzle and call it spin, you can twizzle half a rink and that wouldn't get a -3 GOE, right?

  15. #165
    Custard Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,022
    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Travelling is travelling.
    At most -1 GOE? Read again. It's -1 to -3. Her travelling is the worst. If that doesn't warrant a -3 GOE, what will it take to get a -3 GOE? Let's twizzle and call it spin, you can twizzle half a rink and that wouldn't get a -3 GOE, right?
    Twizzling half the rink would be a great feature in a footwork sequence. A footwork sequence with a half-the-rink twizzle would never deserve -3 GOE.

Page 11 of 15 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •