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Thread: Is Lipnitskaya unbeatable?

  1. #76
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    She is getting to the point to where her PCS can't rise much more. It's already at Mao level and just behind Caro and Yuna. If Julia's PCS rises to match those two then really there's no point in having a second mark at all because it is not measuring the criteria it should be.
    Well duh. I mean look at Plushenko's PCS in the team event.

    The joke is PCS stands for Please Cheat Secretly and I have to agree. The PCS has never been based on the actual skating that takes place on the ice; it's based on the skater and their reputation/positioning in the sport. Who believes the judges are actually evaluating based on all of the criteria listed in the rules? There isn't enough time to go through and accurately evaluate all of that in the space of time that the judges have to place their scores. PCS is nothing but reputation scoring. The better your rep, the higher your score. That's why I'm not even bothering to get upset about the scores anymore. What's the point? That's how this system works and it's not going to change.

    I agree with rallycairn that Julia's scores will continue to rise. I expect her to be around 34+ in PCS in the SP if she's clean in the individual event, and probably around 70+ (if not higher) in the FS. The Russians want a medal and after Julia's two sensational performances in the team event, if she replicates those performances her scores will climb even higher. It's not right but that's what's going to happen.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Well duh. I mean look at Plushenko's PCS in the team event.

    The joke is PCS stands for Please Cheat Secretly and I have to agree. The PCS has never been based on the actual skating that takes place on the ice; it's based on the skater and their reputation/positioning in the sport. Who believes the judges are actually evaluating based on all of the criteria listed in the rules? There isn't enough time to go through and accurately evaluate all of that in the space of time that the judges have to place their scores. PCS is nothing but reputation scoring. The better your rep, the higher your score. That's why I'm not even bothering to get upset about the scores anymore. What's the point? That's how this system works and it's not going to change.

    I agree with rallycairn that Julia's scores will continue to rise. I expect her to be around 34+ in PCS in the SP if she's clean in the individual event, and probably around 70+ (if not higher) in the FS. The Russians want a medal and after Julia's two sensational performances in the team event, if she replicates those performances her scores will climb even higher. It's not right but that's what's going to happen.
    So not trying to get involved in the argument but your PCS comment makes me have to share what someone on my facebook called it: Posing Components Scores.

  3. #78
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post


    Kostner is already done. Her perfect SP with superior everything lost to traveling spins, tiny jumps, flutz, weak skills, heart drawing juniorish program.
    .
    Superior everything??? I love Kostner but her spins are not better. I'd say anybody who understands the scoring knows that Julia's TES is better. Make fun of Julia's heart on the ice because its not like Kostner does anything like wiggle her hips and blow kisses very awkward but I look past it and look forward to her transitions and SSeq. I don't understand all the disrespectful hate here. I would love to see Kostner get a medal but not if Julia or ANYONE beats her.

  4. #79
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    I was already resigned to Plushy's PCS, but it at least took many, many years of skating, and he has been getting scores like that before, so I think it was kind of obviously coming. They're going to inflate Julia's based on one team event? Seriously?

    But even if somehow Julia and Yuna get the same PCS (which is just ridiculous a concept, but that could actually happen), I don't think they can really push her GOEs more than they have, not with Yuna's jumps prominently at display, without giving Yuna more for her jumps. I mean, TES is supposedly more measurable.
    Superior everything??? I love Kostner but her spins are not better. I'd say anybody who understands the scoring knows that Julia's TES is better. Make fun of Julia's heart on the ice because its not like Kostner does anything like wiggle her hips and blow kisses very awkward but I look past it and look forward to her transitions and SSeq. I don't understand all the disrespectful hate here.
    And you just characterized Carolina's choreo as "wiggling her hips and blowing kisses very awkwardly".

  5. #80
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexis View Post
    Dear Sam-Skwantch,
    I don't mean to call you out or anything, but I really don't hope "Lipnitskaia's the limit" like your custom title suggests. This sport needs more athletes jumping higher and faster with greater artistry. Do you really wish the technical ability and artistic side to stop at Julia's level for the future? (i.e. You don't wish ladies to attempt more advanced jump combinations like 3A-3T, 4T, 4S or more difficult spins than Julia's candle spin and so forth???)
    Wow it's just a play on words. I LOVE all the skaters...especially Mao and Yuna. Julia has tons of room to grow. Stop hating. She packaged an explosive program that is full of technical skating at a furious pace. She does it while maintaining a somber character which is appropriate considering the FS and I would argue harder than it looks. She is smart to show her strengths and hide her weaknesses. Yes I see them. Of course she is not the limit. There are many other skaters with multiple attributes better than hers. That doesn't mean they have better programs or have positioned themselves to be on medal contention. How people tear apart and don't celebrate one of the best young skaters we have ever seen is so sad. Julia is NOT the best overall skater but she is one of the fiercest competitors ever. Look up what Kwan,Sato, Ashley and Gracie say about that. Add to it one of the best packaged skater's of the year but feel free to hate. That should progress the sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Wow it's just a play on words. I LOVE all the skaters...especially Mao and Yuna. Julia has tons of room to grow. Stop hating. She packaged an explosive program that is full of technical skating at a furious pace. She does it while maintaining a somber character which is appropriate considering the FS and I would argue harder than it looks. She is smart to show her strengths and hide her weaknesses. Yes I see them. Of course she is not the limit. There are many other skaters with multiple attributes better than hers. That doesn't mean they have better programs or have positioned themselves to be on medal contention. How people tear apart and don't celebrate one of the best young skaters we have ever seen is so sad. Julia is NOT the best overall skater but she is one of the fiercest competitors ever. Look up what Kwan,Sato, Ashley and Gracie say about that. Add to it one of the best packaged skater's of the year but feel free to hate. That should progress the sport.
    Agreed on all counts. Julia is a phenomenal talent. I never tire of watching her Schindler's List LP. It is the program of the year, imho.

  7. #82
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    I'm probably in the minority here and it seems impossible for some here to be impartial but I have a suggestion. There is one skater that I just flat out don't like and it's mostly due to off ice attitude. When she skates though I find myself hoping for her to skate her best and change my mind. From time time she actually does. I feel no need to say her name or show up to a thread and tear her apart but instead try to find things about her to like. This has worked amazingly for me and I've actually enjoyed the sport as a whole for it. It's called staying open minded.

    Here again is my medal prediction just for fun

    YUNA
    JULIA
    MAO

    I think Sotnikova could challenge bronze or overtake Julia. Adelina seems to always beat Julia in Russia. Mao just looks beatable and it makes me sad now to say that:(. I don't think Caro could over take her though as Caro is just not technical enough in a field this deep.

    So I guess it could be

    Yuna
    Adelina
    Julia

    If there are two Russians on the podium which wouldn't surprise me, no matter how deserved or well they skate, GS WILL BE UNBEARABLE for some time to come. Any accomplishment outside of Yuna and Mao is greeted with suspicion.

  8. #83
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I thought Kostner should have beaten Julia in the SP (although it was close) but better everything is indeed laughable. Kostner is by far the worst spinner of the top 12 or so. Julia is by far the best spinner in the World today. Yet I guess according to Flattfan, even Kostner's spins were better.
    Yes!! Except I think Julia win is BARELY justifiable due to the enormous pressure she faced. I'd have have called it a tie and given the nod to Julia....first Olympics and all. She is established now and that should be thrown out on the individual medal. If the both skate clean again I'd give a nod back to Caro for the sake of fairness.

    I think the judging will be more fair in the individuals but I'm starting to think Julia can EARN a 210-215 and deserve it. Wow. Wouldn't have said that in November! She has gained so much momentum and she is poised to pounce on anything the top girls leave for the taking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by on_the_horizon View Post
    You're not alone, sir. There're lots of Yuna haters on this forum.
    Oh I happened have a same thought Well, it's not a big deal anyway if you don't like anyone, just what it is, so simple

    There is one skater that I just flat out don't like and it's mostly due to off ice attitude.
    But if it really is Yuna, what's wrong with her off ice attitude, OMG

  10. #85
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nguyenghita View Post
    oh i happened have a same thought Well, it's not a big deal anyway if you don't like anyone, just what it is, so simple


    But if it really is yuna, what's wrong with her off ice attitude, omg
    i love yuna!!!

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    the julia hating is b/c of the way she was ridiculously overmarked. She was actually one of my favorites coming into the olympics, I was really hoping she would medal, but now that she is so obviously being touted as the favorite, I'm hoping one of the veterans will show her up. It's just a human reaction. I don't agree with the posters who call her skating juniorish though. She does have a beautiful program, and even though it isn't as mature or expressive as some of the older girls, I think 1.) that is part of her personality - she is very business like according to what I have heard 2.) finding her ability to emote authentically with the audience will come with time. I find it funny that more people find the overmarking of Julia more outrageous than the overmarking of Plushenko. Now that is a real travesty IMO. And I like Plushenko too. He's just way past his prime. And I would HATE to think his overmarking by the judges is what led to him staying for the singles.

  12. #87
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Did you see Julia's answer when asked about her best skate ever? She said"that was just my best score"

    She isn't judging and I think of she were she would have given herself a 110 lol when in fact it was a 130ish(up or down) skate. Now Gracie should have been 125 but that's another story. I thought when the judges took so long they were gonna ding her instead of inflate. Gracie can break 130 but that was a guarded skate. I would prefer clean aggressive Julia to a guarded anyone.

    How many skaters are going to break 130? I'm thinking 5 could if they go clean

    Oh yeah...to answer the thread.....YES!!
    Edit: Maybe she is beatable by Yuna,Mao,Caro,Adelina,or Gracie....but other than that....unbeatable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    i love yuna!!!

    Is it Caro?!? It can’t be Caro she is lovely off ice!

    Is it Mao?! Is it Ashley?!? Gracie? Can’t be Akiko because she seems to sweet.

    You know that by making that comment you got everyone wondering! I think it was your intention to leave an air of mystery...

    Anyway I think everyone is entitled to their opinions if they are expressed in a respectful manner.

    I am not rooting for Julia to win, but as I said previously, I respect her and I think her mere presence and competitiveness have pushed other skaters (including my favourites) to their limits and to improve themselves. This is great for figure skating and I think she has contributed into deepening the field a lot.

    Also, I feel that many people, although recognising Julia’s many talents, are just baffled by the score inflation. Julia does not mark herself though so I would never dream to consider her responsible for the marks she gets.

    In any case I reserve my judgment for that night. I just hope that my favourite rise to the occasion, but I also would be disappointed if they were marked on their reputation and not on their performance at the games.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Did you see Julia's answer when asked about her best skate ever? She said"that was just my best score"

    She isn't judging and I think of she were she would have given herself a 110 lol when in fact it was a 130ish(up or down) skate. Now Gracie should have been 125 but that's another story. I thought when the judges took so long they were gonna ding her instead of inflate. Gracie can break 130 but that was a guarded skate. I would prefer clean aggressive Julia to a guarded anyone.

    How many skaters are going to break 130? I'm thinking 5 could if they go clean

    Oh yeah...to answer the thread.....YES!!
    Gracie got 125 with a skate that had several small errors at last year's Worlds. This skate was tight, but definitely better than what she did at worlds. So 129 is about right.

    Also she wasn't tight the whole time, just the first part.

    I think she can break 130 if she is less tight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I'd say anybody who understands the scoring knows that Julia's TES is better.
    I couldn't help but to disagree with you on this one. Just because judges ignored some obvious flaws (e.g. wrong edge and full blade take off with more than 1/2 pre rotation), it does not mean that it was her 'real' score.
    (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JBoLZP84F0o This is her SP video and those are quite easily noticeable at 4:25)
    If judged correctly, it should have been an underrotated and according to the rule, underrrotated 3 lutz is 4.2(which is -1.8 point of 6.0 point you can check that on this site http://gofigureskating.com/skills/jumps/compete.html)

    Now let us look at the SP protocols. The TES for Yulia was 39.39 and 35.92 for Caro. I am sure it is mandatory for judges to give minus GOEs it there is an 'e' mark according to the current rule. So wrong edged and underrotated 3lz gives yulia 39.39 + (-1.8) + (-1.4) = 36.19 to say the least. If we consider the possible minus GOE, the TES for two skaters are almost evenly matched. (and I'm not considering the other jump which is also being criticized A.K.A 2A with +0.64 GOE)

    And as you know, this is why skaters work so hard to get their skills to be as accurate and precise as possible.
    And If I'm not wrong, Carolina is one of the few skaters whose known for her jump qualities.

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