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Originally Posted by Herald
I couldn't help but to disagree with you on this one. Just because judges ignored some obvious flaws (e.g. wrong edge and full blade take off with more than 1/2 pre rotation), it does not mean that it was her 'real' score.
(http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JBoLZP84F0o This is her SP video and those are quite easily noticeable at 4:25)
If judged correctly, it should have been downgraded and according to the rule, downgraded 3 lutz is 4.2(which is -1.8 point of 6.0 point you can check that on this site http://gofigureskating.com/skills/jumps/compete.html)

Now let us look at the SP protocols. The TES for Yulia was 39.39 and 35.92 for Caro. I am sure it is mandatory for judges to give minus GOEs it there is an 'e' mark according to the current rule. So wrong edged and downgraded 3lz gives yulia 39.39 + (-1.8) + (-1.4) = 36.19 to say the least. If we consider the possible minus GOE, the TES for two skaters are almost evenly matched. (and I'm not considering the other jump which is also being criticized A.K.A 2A with +0.64 GOE)
That video is Russian nationals??? So I'm gonna give you an edge deduction. We should also ding Julia's Olympic score for the step out too?

Ill add one more thing...you say things like judged correctly yet fail to see the problem within the current judging system. The bullet points which they provide needed to satisfy positive GOE are flawed. Read them. Then notice it says meeting 2pts is +1 GOE and I think 4pts gets +2 or and so on. My point is this....after all that it then says "these are just suggested and a judge may use different criteria" or something to that affect. It's a loaded gun for a narrow mind. I think this is the elephant in the room that leads to these ridiculous fights about judges protocols. Can't we just say Caro was great but Julia barely scrapped by on home ice and move on.

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I think this is a better example of Julia's pre-rotation and wrong edge take off.

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Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch

Here again is my medal prediction just for fun

YUNA
JULIA
MAO
I have been a JuLip fan for four years now. She was freakishly mesmerizing even back then. And because of after decades of skating fandom and knowing "Don't go with the tiny pre-pubescent wunderkind" I didn't get my hopes up. But year by year her jumps got stronger, higher, as did her skating. I posted maybe here or on TSL at the beginning of the season that I predicted Julia for Olympic Gold. I so hope she pulls this one off. I was the only one on TSL who would dare say that she'd win and not Kim or Mao. Of course now I'm jinxing her, but heck, she has an OGM. She is that special. (IMO)

My prediction is: JuLip, Kim, Gold.

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Her last spin traveled so much it should be 0 point. Hello, a bunch of girls got 0 for traveling spins before.

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Originally Posted by jenm
I think this is a better example of Julia's pre-rotation and wrong edge take off.
My DVR slow motion looked different. I'm not 100% this isn't doctored. She is a flutzer though, we all know it but it seemed to be getting better. I want to see the NBC slow motion again. Better angle better quality and even Scott said it was clean when he saw it. Everyone pre rotates so I'm not concerned with that. Thing is her jumps are very visually pleasing to the crowd(judges too) and present clean flow. Hard to deny that. It's the Olympics and they tend to be more lenient here I think even in the past.

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Okay I understand what you mean but I brought that up just to remind you it is not so obvious to consider that the Yulia's TES is better than Caro's. i hope you understand my point too.

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I've often asked what if you satisfy all bullets and get an edge call? Do they award +3 then the edge deduction or wash the +3 and only ding for edge call. All people ever give me are links to different rule books which all have loopholes. I just watch the girls and only focus on obvious mistakes. Being a judge is too taxing and very unclear.

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Originally Posted by LiamForeman

My prediction is: JuLip, Kim, Gold.
Has a 15 yr old ever won two gold medals?

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Like I said, if there is an edge call then judges are forced to give minus GOEs that is the current rule. I recall it wasn't mandatory several years ago. The change is quite recent if my memory serves right.

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According to the judges..

Figure Skating...it's been real.

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Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch

I've often asked what if you satisfy all bullets and get an edge call? Do they award +3 then the edge deduction or wash the +3 and only ding for edge call. All people ever give me are links to different rule books which all have loopholes. I just watch the girls and only focus on obvious mistakes. Being a judge is too taxing and very unclear.
In this ISU communication http://www.usfsa.org/content/ISU%201...02012-2013.pdf it says for GOE, first the positives are to be considered then the negative taken away from that one, not from the baseline. For example, if Yuna had a edge call: Her GOE was going to be 3s and maybe a couple of 2s from stingier judges. Then, according to the rules for negative GOE (see page 12) -1 to -2 would be taken away. For unclear edges the final GOE is not required to be negative. For Yuna, I would assume that if she had an edge call, it would be so slight as to be nearly unnoticeable. In that case only -1 needs to be added to her +GOE. Therefore, she would get 2s and then 1's from the stingier judges. The same applies to Julia and every other skater, if the judges were going to give 0 originally, it would be -1. If they were originally going to give 1s and 2s then GOE would be 0s and 1s. If the edge was wrong the whole time an didn't merely switch over, that's a severe wrong edge take-off. Final GOE is required to be negative.

Since people are suddenly talking about whatever she supposedly said about her Lutz being correct. People who are desperate to find something more to criticize Julia for. It's hard to make sense of what she's saying and be 100% accurate because when you look at another language, even one as close to English as French, you can't just translate each individual word in the order that they appear. When you say one sentence in English and the other in French the order of the words changes even for simple sentences. When you get more complex sentences it gets even more complicated. Especially since every language has words or ideas phrased in such a way that they do not translate directly. For a language so much more different than our own, you cannot rely on individually translated words. You need someone who understands both languages to the point where they don't translate the words but instead hear what she says and then can sum up her meaning in English.

(This must be from an earlier competition? Europeans, Grand Prix Final?) From this poor translation I hear that when she was asked about what her coach said, and replied: Again this lutz? Yes it is! her actual response was more saying that the Lutz is a continuing problem for her and an exclamation that urgh, I'm being asked about again. For someone focused on always skating to her full ability it must be a thorn in her side. That's because when you look at the rest she says that when she was younger and still trying to master the jump she did it over and over until it became automatic. Unfortunately with an edge change. Now that she has the jump, they are working on correcting it. She goes on to say that in her coach's group of students they all need to retrain the edge and that they even have time that they solely devote to trying to take-off on the outside edge. She joke(s), I'm not a 100% sure about this, that the time is called outside edge jump classes. Regarding the part I bolded below, she is still talking about those who also train with Eteri, not about other skaters in general. She goes on to say that her Lutz is at the point where she still takes off from an inside edge, in extreme cases the take-off comes off the flat of the blade, and sometimes takes-off from an outside edge.

She's had a few cases where she didn't have an edge change. At SC for example, the one in the SP was ruled clean, and then in the FS, one clean the other wasn't. So sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't. The thing is it's borderline, so each time the technical panel has to review and decide which they will rule. She has done 6 competition this season, with three Lutz per competition. Out of 16(I'm am not counting the one she fell on, or the one she doubled because the GOE was already where it would have with an edge call so it didn't matter) she has been considered clean on 5 of them. So she is definitely working on it.

When I went to Julia, she did not know what she lowered the scores and that the case in Lutz.
- Julia, your coach, Eter Tutberidze thinks your lutz judges evaluated as incorrect.
- Again this lutz? Yes it is! You know, when I was little, I double lutz still so Zouch ... When I started to jump over the edge did not attend. And here I am doing with this approach lutz - not straight, it was a diagonal ... And about ten minutes I had time to do a hundred jumping around and around, and all Lutz, Lutz, Lutz, and all with internal ribs ... Because I already brought the jump to automatism, finally retrain me on the other edge was very difficult. We have a group Etery Tutberidze, however, all retrain. In fact, Lutz clearly from an outside edge jump units! And even now, I do not know any - who have played it perfectly right. But! Because Lutz I have is at the stage I still shift on an outside edge, in extreme cases, may be repulsion occurs with two edges, not only from the internal, that's for sure!
- But you have in any case the highest technical score, therefore, decided something and components?
- Not so much they decided. Wheels less points! A components, among other things, earned even in training judges watched in training is not for everyone - and so selectively ... I'm in Budapest in training for some reason did everything badly. I was approached by friends and sympathetically asked, "Julia, what's wrong?".

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In Russia, yes, she is unbeatable.
In any other country, no.

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@Isabelle_

In regards to edge calls that's exactly how I read it. Yet after checking protocols this season I couldn't find a single edge call with positive GOE though. Maybe some panels are being forced to overlook edge calls in order to award a positive overall jump with unclear edge takeoff being only minor flaw in the overall picture.

In terms of awarding GOE it seems people only look at the height of a jump. Julia's flow from entry to the transition out is as effortless as as anyone which a fair judge could award a positive GOE alone. The fact that her 2a-3t-2t combo peaks out on the 2nd jump is very unique in itself and worthy of the height/distance/air positioning part of the bullets. Like I said earlier though the judges have free reign to determine GOE and not bound to the ISU's suggested guidelines.

Side note- In regards to Julia's 2a-3t-2t. I noticed in her warm-ups she really accented the the transition out by dipping her shoulders and nearly touching the ice similar to the second part of her spiral where it looks like she cracks her knuckles. She failed to nail it in the FS though but keep an eye out for it. Little details appear each and every time!

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Originally Posted by flor87
God I hope not. I thought this was figure skating. Not a contortionist competition!
Yes!
This is skating ..not posing. I don't get the constant bending, this isn't rhythm gymnastics. Show me your edges and flow over the ice, I don't care if a skater can bend in 50 different ways, that is not skating!
Sasha didn't overdue it the way Yulia does. I don't like it, just skate!

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But Julia uses her flexibility with quick tansitions nad inbetweens. I kind of think it is amazing she can stay balanced. Her jumps are small but have far better coverage and amplitude than Lipinski when she won. she is also far more aritstic and interpetative than Lipinksi. Her character is well developed - she just mad smart choices for her age and talent people when it comes to programs She uses her giftings - her age, her flexibility to her advantage. And she is relatively unique whereas Ashley and Gold are princesses as are Yuna and Mao. Miss America smiles and glitz nothing unqiue about their programs just graceful femininity.

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