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Thread: Is Lipnitskaya unbeatable?

  1. #106
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    Yes!
    This is skating ..not posing. I don't get the constant bending, this isn't rhythm gymnastics. Show me your edges and flow over the ice, I don't care if a skater can bend in 50 different ways, that is not skating!
    Sasha didn't overdue it the way Yulia does. I don't like it, just skate!


    Kwan likes it

    She seemed very impressed.

    Why does everyone have to skate a certain way to win or garner respect? I think Julia's unique approach has been extremely effective and in fact pushing others to skate better. I think consistency,amazing spins,difficult jumps and unearthly flexibility are a good package and very exciting to watch. The edges will come and some of the flexibility will go but I see no reason she should not be able to interpret FS how she feels best. Nothing wrong with individuality is there. That's why she's been called a breath of fresh air by more than a few people.

  2. #107
    Custom Title KwanIsALegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    But Julia uses her flexibility with quick tansitions nad inbetweens. I kind of think it is amazing she can stay balanced. Her jumps are small but have far better coverage and amplitude than Lipinski when she won. she is also far more aritstic and interpetative than Lipinksi. Her character is well developed - she just mad smart choices for her age and talent people when it comes to programs She uses her giftings - her age, her flexibility to her advantage. And she is relatively unique whereas Ashley and Gold are princesses as are Yuna and Mao. Miss America smiles and glitz nothing unqiue about their programs just graceful femininity.

    I agree she is better than Lipinski. Tara was very robotic you could see that her 'artistry' did not come naturally, she was all about those 3/3's. Julia's artistry seems more natural.

    Julia is impressive, I am not saying she isn't. I do think you can be a great skater and not be all gumby out on the ice. A few good extensions here and there, maybe like a really good spiral that is held for at least 30 seconds, no wobbling, no bent free leg. That is what I find impressive.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    I agree she is better than Lipinski. Tara was very robotic you could see that her 'artistry' did not come naturally, she was all about those 3/3's. Julia's artistry seems more natural.

    Julia is impressive, I am not saying she isn't. I do think you can be a great skater and not be all gumby out on the ice. A few good extensions here and there, maybe like a really good spiral that is held for at least 30 seconds, no wobbling, no bent free leg. That is what I find impressive.
    The problem is that there just isn't time for that in either program. Spiral should be an element again, so she can do so.


    I just found this video, what does everyone think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndHRd5ngMFU

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    I am extremely shocked with the crazy inflated scores. I could never imagine that one could get 140+ with flutz and under rotation.
    I remember the times when you couldn't get over 70 in SP and 130 in LP without absolutely spectacular performances. (Which means, performances without any of those jump problems mentioned)

    Yuna and Mao are phenoms, and I just can't put Julia in their category. Now the talk is going for Yuna vs. Julia and how Julia is unbeatable, but this talk is only going on because the Olympics is held in Russia. Julia is an amazing spinner, but Caroline Zhang in my opinion was way better. If you can get that ridiculous score with just spins, I don't know what figure skating is about.

    Please, someone watch this performance where Yuna set a world record with 133, and tell me if Julia's 140+ performance is really better than this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiBqLlbAGEE

    I just can't accept Julia's olympic scores.

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    Some people are clearly incapable of reading and understanding.

    It clearly said "In case of multiple errors the corresponding reduction are added."

    http://www.usfsa.org/content/ISU%201...02012-2013.pdf

    Poor speed, height, distance, air position -1 to -2
    Poor take-off -1 to -2

    So even if Julia's jumps have the most creative entry/exit (which she doesn't) most amazing flow (which she doesn't) most timed with music (again, really?) she would get +2 GOE of the positive column.

    In the negative column, the reductions also add up

    - 2 for poor take off.
    - 2 for poor speed, height, distance.

    Total = - 4 GOE.

    Let say she satisfied 6 bullets
    1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
    2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
    5) good extension on landing / creative exit
    6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
    7) effortless throughout
    8) element matched to the musical structure

    That would be + 3 GOE - 4 GOE = -1 GOE at best!!! At best!!!

    Do you understand this?

    So, for the flz-3T, she would get -2 to -3 GOE at best.

    I see all of her jumps carrying -2 to -4 GOE due to poor speed, height to poor take off. Clearly, even with +3 GOE, she cannot overcome her short coming.

  6. #111
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Hey flatt_fan

    While your very unbiased point is taken. If you read your own post you'll notice the bullet points don't say most creative exit or most flow from a jump to be awarded. Maybe I just don't read right but I'm not seeing that. So your argument just seems odd and frankly mean spirited too me. You say one thing and then present evidence that counters it. I have maintained that the judges do not need to follow these suggested guidelines...it's in the ISU rules they are only suggested. So it's true a fair impartial judge like yourself could reward Julia -3's all day. I'm not sure that would be of great service to this sport.

    FYI from what I've seen even the strictest judges only take .30 off of Julia's minor flutz and on wher worst in Japan it was -.60. I think the BV is 10.10 on her 3ltz-3t and when called in Japan she got 9.80 credited. What would you have it as? Downgrade to a double, apply under rotation, edge call, and ding her for her step out in Russian Nats evertime she jumps?

  7. #112
    I'm gonna Customize the CRAP out of this Title!!! Frenchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    A few good extensions here and there, maybe like a really good spiral that is held for at least 30 seconds, no wobbling, no bent free leg. That is what I find impressive.
    I'm afraid a 30 second spiral has never even come remotely close to being done in competition in the history of mankind

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post

    It clearly said "In case of multiple errors the corresponding reduction are added."
    If that what it really says, it isn't very clear: the corresponding reduction are added?

    I don't think Julia's jumps have poor height. They are not huge, but I wouldn't characterize them as "poor." They also have pretty good distance and speed. Her take-off is good. I don't think she deserves reductions (except for the flutz). The only question, I think, is how much positive GOE, if any, she deserves.

  9. #114
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Akiko unfortunately showed us a few jumps with poor height in her FS. So sad for her. She could have done so much better. Hopefully she got those nerves out of her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    I'm afraid a 30 second spiral has never even come remotely close to being done in competition in the history of mankind
    I think this may be the longest spiral ever, at around 18 seconds (starting at 3:42). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jcH...tailpage#t=222

  11. #116
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    I think this may be the longest spiral ever, at around 18 seconds (starting at 3:42). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jcH...tailpage#t=222
    Omg. At first I thought it was a joke when he did the one at 1:25. Then I came back and read where you put that it was at 3:42. That whole skate was friggin awesome!!!!

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    While your very unbiased point is taken. If you read your own post you'll notice the bullet points don't say most creative exit or most flow from a jump to be awarded. Maybe I just don't read right but I'm not seeing that. So your argument just seems odd and frankly mean spirited too me. You say one thing and then present evidence that counters it. I have maintained that the judges do not need to follow these suggested guidelines...it's in the ISU rules they are only suggested. So it's true a fair impartial judge like yourself could reward Julia -3's all day.
    Huh?
    I said even if you give her all the bullet points, even creative exit, flow, etc... She would get +2 or +3 GOE.
    After getting +2 or +3 GOE, she will then get -2 GOE on poor take off (hello, her 2A is atrocious, the worst ever), another -2GOE for poor speed, height, distance, because, hello, it's obviously that she was barely 2 inches off the ice.

    So in the end, even if she satisfies 6-8 bullet points for + GOE, her final GOE would still be in the negative because of the nature of her jump and her technique, mainly poor take off, and poor height.

    There's no way she can get any + GOE on any of her jumps even if she satisfies most of the + GOE bullet. This is where they didn't apply the rule correctly.

    If jenaj said one more time that Julia's take off is good, we should chip in a buy her a pair of glasses. Have you seen her 2A getting +2 GOE?

  13. #118
    Best comeback EVOR! zamboni step's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Huh?
    I said even if you give her all the bullet points, even creative exit, flow, etc... She would get +2 or +3 GOE.
    After getting +2 or +3 GOE, she will then get -2 GOE on poor take off (hello, her 2A is atrocious, the worst ever), another -2GOE for poor speed, height, distance, because, hello, it's obviously that she was barely 2 inches off the ice.

    So in the end, even if she satisfies 6-8 bullet points for + GOE, her final GOE would still be in the negative because of the nature of her jump and her technique, mainly poor take off, and poor height.

    There's no way she can get any + GOE on any of her jumps even if she satisfies most of the + GOE bullet. This is where they didn't apply the rule correctly.

    If jenaj said one more time that Julia's take off is good, we should chip in a buy her a pair of glasses. Have you seen her 2A getting +2 GOE?
    Her 3F, 3T and 3L take offs definitely aren't deduction worthy bad to begin with, although at the Team even, I thought poor landings should have come into play a little, and her speed isn't Caroline Zhang bad going into the jumps, I think her 2A, 3S and 3Lz could be penalised based off what she does on the day, a lot of her 3Lzs are questionable in rotation (especially the 3Lz-3T ones) and her Salchow is her weak jump. Plus the 2A is obviously deserving of being hit for poor technique. I'd say these should be the max GOE of her jumps.

    2A- 0, maybe +1 if she really did a good one by her standards. Any wobble and -2, she shows no fear going in which I think saves her.
    3T- +2, she can do them from pretty interesting entrances (Euros exhibition) and they're pretty effortless, although +1 and 0 are also justifiable.
    3L- +1, in the FS it has pretty obvious steps linking in, it's effortless and she gets ok flow coming out. The height is pretty weak though so I'd hesitate about anything above 0.
    3F- +1, with the linking steps the on in the FS has with a nice controlled landing (she does one or two every now and again ) Otherwise 0. -2 if edge call.
    3Lz- -1, almost always borderline, almost always really muscled out, never much flow. -3 if edge call.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    I agree she is better than Lipinski. Tara was very robotic you could see that her 'artistry' did not come naturally, she was all about those 3/3's. Julia's artistry seems more natural.

    Julia is impressive, I am not saying she isn't. I do think you can be a great skater and not be all gumby out on the ice. A few good extensions here and there, maybe like a really good spiral that is held for at least 30 seconds, no wobbling, no bent free leg. That is what I find impressive.
    This....

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by figurejennah View Post
    I am extremely shocked with the crazy inflated scores. I could never imagine that one could get 140+ with flutz and under rotation.
    I remember the times when you couldn't get over 70 in SP and 130 in LP without absolutely spectacular performances. (Which means, performances without any of those jump problems mentioned)

    Yuna and Mao are phenoms, and I just can't put Julia in their category. Now the talk is going for Yuna vs. Julia and how Julia is unbeatable, but this talk is only going on because the Olympics is held in Russia. Julia is an amazing spinner, but Caroline Zhang in my opinion was way better. If you can get that ridiculous score with just spins, I don't know what figure skating is about.

    Please, someone watch this performance where Yuna set a world record with 133, and tell me if Julia's 140+ performance is really better than this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiBqLlbAGEE

    I just can't accept Julia's olympic scores.
    Oh the days when Caroline's spins use to blow me away but now...

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