Is Lipnitskaya unbeatable? | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Is Lipnitskaya unbeatable?

zamboni step

Final Flight
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Feb 14, 2013
I think that's kind of a wash though, since a couple weeks after Nationals (outside of Russia) she beat Sotnikova at the European Championship, and she's beaten her in the GPF.

Yes but you don't hear much about that really. It's all about who the National Champion is when it comes to the spectators and honestly in general, it's considered more important. I don't agree that it is, but that's what it's considered.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Wow, thanks for such a warm encouragement toward the direction of enlightenment, there.

Sure, the ISU signaling that they'll be upping the scores for the next quad? That makes a perfect sense. Then once again, we should've seen an increase in scores for almost everyone who skated well. I'm guessing at least Gracie should've seen some increase in her GOEs. She's also in a prime position to take advantage of this
I agree and think in some ways she has. Gracie matched her US nationals score in the FS. Everyone knows those are inflated! I think Gracie's best international score before this for her FS was around 118. Was Gracie at her best. I don't think so. I saw room for fixing not unlike Julia which makes me actually happy because they have the ability to improve in the individial and skate even better. If Gracie went cleaner she could have scored a 135 in my opinion. Pretty nice boost considering she has no major international success in the portfolia. She looks able to break into 135 territory easily if you ask me. Julia should have been closer to 135 i have admitted since the scores came, Julia too, but I think most here still agree Julia won the show. I wouldn't be surprised to see all three Adelina,Gracie and Julia get boosted scores. Yuna will rise above em all unless she makes glaring mistakes.

If you forget euros Julia's highest free skate outside of Russia comes in around 130.
If you factor in Gracie's highest free skate score its 118

Both got a 10 pt boost. Both didn't skate their best skates.

No need to ridiicule either. You may not like what I post but why throw insults about being "enlightend" in a demeaning way?
 

vegarin

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Mar 19, 2013
You're the one who told me that "maybe it will come to me" after reading your post, because apparently I'm slow and your post is the answer to everything.

...Wow, I can't believe I typed that. This degraded fast. I'm still going to post it and admit that it was petty. Likely I was reading too much into it and hopefully you didn't mean much by it. Sorry!
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Lol that was just miscommunication. I meant maybe the scores will come. Sorry to confuse:slink:

It was because we posted at almost the same time too and I thought we were kinda on the same page. I should have typed maybe the scores will come.

Again:slink:
 

shizuzzang

Spectator
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Julia's PCS will rise at least 1 or 2 points next week in the LP. She will crack 70 in PCS for sure. Who is counting against this?
Her TES might be padded upward.

I can see her getting closer to 145 in the LP.

In the SP, I see her getting 74.

Kim's SP will not beat Julia's SP because her spins will not get the same level and same GOE. Steps will be a wash. Jumps? Julia's perfect lutz + perfect 3T will get +2 and +3 GOE. Kim has no advantage over her in GOE either.
I could see Kim's losing in the SP even because her spins are weaker.

If Kim makes 1 mistake, she will not beat a clean robot.

Kostner is already done. Her perfect SP with superior everything lost to traveling spins, tiny jumps, flutz, weak skills, heart drawing juniorish program.

Asada will not be able to rotate her jumps in time. I think Asada might even fall behind Kostner at this point.



WoW.........I am very afraid that I can not to see this sport at the Olympic any longer....
 

vegarin

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Lol that was just miscommunication. I meant maybe the scores will come. Sorry to confuse
Hee, I'm sorry, too. I can't believe how sensitive I've become. It's just figure skating, for crying out loud! :biggrin: I guess these few days of speculations, hypes and decries got to me and riled me up for absolutely no good reason.

That said, I also have to admit, it's also kind of fun in its own way. Therapeutic, even. :yay:
 

Sam-Skwantch

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WoW.........I am very afraid that I can not to see this sport at the Olympic any longer....

Did you notice Flatt_fann again only presented negatives in her post you quoted. There are so many positives about this event. These girls are maximizing their potential athleticism, putting it to beautiful songs and sharing it with the world. What's not to like. Even if my favorite loses I say so what. As long as she skates I'll win because I'll enjoy watching her skate in front of the whole world. I for one think people outside of us rink rats and faithful fans should know about this little freak from Russia. If you're only a fan of individual skaters you'll come and go, if you're a fan of skating you should stay because its about to be exciting for years to come. Who would have thought a Yuna vs Julia thread would conjure honest opinions even just two months ago? Again what's not to like?

To answer the thread....no. Yuna can beat Julia and it might be in her best interest if it happens. I like when she is challenged and it might fire her up to stick around for the next Olympics. She'd only be 19 going into her second Olympic Games. I'm staying put!!
 

Skater Boy

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I think if the judges wanted to send the message that Yulia was UNbeatable they would have scored her closer to what Yuna got last year at Worlds. 141 is extremely high but certainly not UNbeatable. However, it does leave Yuna almost no room for error.

If Russia has already bought the gold for Yulia, I won't be devastated. Yuna already has an OGM. :) I'd be more sad for Kostner and Asada, who are much more "worthy" of that OGM than Yulia.


How do we decide deserves or is worthy of oGM i THINK YUR WAY OF THINKING WOuld mean give the gold to Dai and or Chanin the men and not Hanyu..
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
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That is one jump. I never said her 2A deserved a +2. I said her take-offs didn't deserve a deduction.

What are you seeing? Her 2As take off didn't deserve a deduction? Unless you have vertigo during her take off, there shouldn't be any confusion on how bad her take off is. Hello, a duck is a duck. A duck isn't a swan just because you can't see it clearly.
 

FlattFan

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http://www.usfsa.org/content/ISU 1724 S&P SOV_GOE_Levels of difficulties 2012-2013.pdf

Also, for Spins
Poor/awkward position(s), slow, traveling -1 to -3

As everyone with eyes can see that Julia's spins travel excessively (the worst of any other spinners), so whatever GOE she got will also carry a -3 GOE at the end. According to the rule book, her spin shouldn't get any + GOE unless she has at least 6 of these

1) good speed or acceleration during spin
2) ability to center a spin quickly
3) balanced rotations in all positions
4) clearly more than required number of revolutions
5) good position(s) (including height and air position in flying spins)
6) creativity and originality
7) good control throughout all phases
8) element matched to the musical structure

She defnitely doesn't have 2, 3, 7, and possibly 8, so there's no way she would get +3 GOE. If she gets +2 GOE for her spin, -3 from that, it would be -1 GOE for the traveling spins.

Again, that's the rule, clearly spelled out.
 

Blades of Passion

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FlattFann, that would be poor judging. Lipnitskaya's combination spin is one of the best in figure skating history. Even when it travels more than a little at the end she deserves +2 GOE on it. Who else can do a full 180 split while accelerating very quickly in a spin, without eventually traveling on it? Nobody ever.
 

Mrs. P

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I agree and think in some ways she has. Gracie matched her US nationals score in the FS. Everyone knows those are inflated! I think Gracie's best international score before this for her FS was around 118. Was Gracie at her best. I don't think so. I saw room for fixing not unlike Julia which makes me actually happy because they have the ability to improve in the individial and skate even better. If Gracie went cleaner she could have scored a 135 in my opinion. Pretty nice boost considering she has no major international success in the portfolia. She looks able to break into 135 territory easily if you ask me. Julia should have been closer to 135 i have admitted since the scores came, Julia too, but I think most here still agree Julia won the show. I wouldn't be surprised to see all three Adelina,Gracie and Julia get boosted scores. Yuna will rise above em all unless she makes glaring mistakes.

If you forget euros Julia's highest free skate outside of Russia comes in around 130.
If you factor in Gracie's highest free skate score its 118

Both got a 10 pt boost. Both didn't skate their best skates.

No need to ridiicule either. You may not like what I post but why throw insults about being "enlightend" in a demeaning way?

Gracie's pb was 125+ at worlds last year and was sixth. And help earn 3 spots for the us. That was with two errors. 117 was her seasons best. But she really underperformed until nationals.

So no she did not get a boost. In fact most of the 4 point increase was in the technical mark.

She can score a little bit higher, I think.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Dear Flatty

I've tried to respond to your posts before but I'm done. You just present extreme bias and offer no reasonable, let alone respectful, views. Good luck being uber negative. I've gone back and looked up Rachel Flatt vids and was going to argue on that front but after looking them up and noticing her jumps are smaller than Julia's and spins were all over the place I figured that would be mean. Besides, to each their own and frankly I can see what you like about her. It is weird that Julia has over 200,000 views on most of her video's from only two weeks ago. It's almost as if people like and admire her...especially her spins. I thought you said if Julia won a gold you were leaving cause she makes your skin crawl. Well...

Is there an ignore button on this forum?

Edit- I found out how to ignore. :yay:
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Gracie's pb was 125+ at worlds last year and was sixth. And help earn 3 spots for the us. That was with two errors. 117 was her seasons best. But she really underperformed until nationals.

So no she did not get a boost. In fact most of the 4 point increase was in the technical mark.

She can score a little bit higher, I think.

You are I right I should have stated this seasons best for Gracie.:bang:

If you factor in Julia's Euro skate then really she got no boost either...no?:think:

I think Gracie can compete for bronze and improve on her 129.:yay:
 

HalfTriple

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Jun 8, 2010
Dear Flatty

I've tried to respond to your posts before but I'm done. You just present extreme bias and offer no reasonable, let alone respectful, views. Good luck being uber negative. I've gone back and looked up Rachel Flatt vids and was going to argue on that front but after looking them up and noticing her jumps are smaller than Julia's and spins were all over the place I figured that would be mean. Besides, to each their own and frankly I can see what you like about her. It is weird that Julia has over 200,000 views on most of her video's from only two weeks ago. It's almost as if people like and admire her...especially her spins. I thought you said if Julia won a gold you were leaving cause she makes your skin crawl. Well...

Is there an ignore button on this forum?

Edit- I found out how to ignore. :yay:

Well, I think Flattfan means not quality of Julia's spin, but her execution in the competitive context; that is his/her argument is more about judging inconsistency as opposed in the past, as I read in between the line. It used to be very easy to receive no ratification on spin or other elements before if it happens to neglect specific point of instruction. For instance, Kim once received 0 point at her final spin due to a very technical reason in 2009. But anyway, Julia's spin is wonderful. :)
 

jenaj

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What are you seeing? Her 2As take off didn't deserve a deduction? Unless you have vertigo during her take off, there shouldn't be any confusion on how bad her take off is. Hello, a duck is a duck. A duck isn't a swan just because you can't see it clearly.

I don't see it and neither do the judges. And you forgot to add "in my opinion."
 

ahy

Final Flight
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Jul 29, 2013
Well, I think Flattfan means not quality of Julia's spin, but her execution in the competitive context; that is his/her argument is more about judging inconsistency as opposed in the past, as I read in between the line. It used to be very easy to receive no ratification on spin or other elements before if it happens to neglect specific point of instruction. For instance, Kim once received 0 point at her final spin due to a very technical reason in 2009. But anyway, Julia's spin is wonderful. :)

You mean 2009 worlds?
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Well, I think Flattfan means not quality of Julia's spin, but her execution in the competitive context; that is his/her argument is more about judging inconsistency as opposed in the past, as I read in between the line. It used to be very easy to receive no ratification on spin or other elements before if it happens to neglect specific point of instruction. For instance, Kim once received 0 point at her final spin due to a very technical reason in 2009. But anyway, Julia's spin is wonderful. :)

Reading in between the lines of FlattFan is like saying there is a blade of grass in that desert. I don't think it's there nor am i gonna search for it but I don't doubt you can find one.

I respect your analysis regarding judging but at some point you're going to have to acknowledge that until ISU requires the judges to follow a strict guideline to award GOE, it will NEVER be consistent. It clearly states the bullet points and amount awarded is nearly a suggestion and that the judge can base GOE on different criteria not listed. So is this applied to edge calls too. So could crowd reaction be one factor a particular judge goes on to award jump or spin GOE? Is that fair and how could it be consistent? Shouldn't this be represented in the presentation score alone? Like I said earlier in this thread, its a loaded gun for a narrow mind. That is why FlattFann who said Julia's best jumps should be -3 GOE and her spins-2 isn't wrong and neither would someone who awarded +3's either. Both views very biased and detrimental to the sport as a whole but could be argued as justifiable. Fortunately compared to some of the over the top and flat out outlandish things people post here the judges suddenly carry an air of fairness.
 

DaveT

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
It clearly states the bullet points and amount awarded is nearly a suggestion and that the judge can base GOE on different criteria not listed. .

Where do you see this? When I read the ISU communication I see this for GOE: "In marking the GOE the following must be considered." Then it lists the criteria. I don't see "suggestion" nor "can base on criteria not listed". Can you help me find this please?
 
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