2014 Olympics Short Dance

Frenchie, why are you stressing yourself out over Sisinka? Despite all the efforts of persons of that ilk, the kids won!! The kerfuffle of an Olympic season that Zhulin predicted for his OWN former students, he himself poured on B/S. How ironic is THAT! He is the sole reason that B/S underperformed here and the reason that I/K left him. He has taken his own rope and impaired himself with it. From this they all will learn that a little bit of respect and class pays significant dividends!!

Be happy, I'm hopeful that their development has just begun. I like that happy place so certain comments are best ignored.

Frenchie said:

Yeah. You never said that. Oh, wait...

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Frenchie, we all know how vile some people on here can be.
Just be thankful you don't know them in your personal life.
Some of these nasty people who just see flags or their own favourites are best kept at a distance.
From day one of these games some people have tried to say "Russia BAD".........."North America GOOD".
They are stuck in the 80's.
I sat & watched amazing, talented & hard-working skaters yesterday & enjoyed each for their own merits, only to come on these boards & see nasty, petty people trashing skaters. They must be very sad people.

sisinka said:

It only starts with tutu…but this year it is more long to hide Lena’s thighs and backside (unfortunately you really need to be too slim to wear such dress, probably only Cappellini and Pechalat could wear tutu without any fear)…

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Frenchie said:

Yeah. You never said that. Oh, wait...

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Coming back (hopefully for the last time) to your ”free” translation of what I wrote about Lena’s skirt…in skating jargon…people use to say that skirt is longer - to hide some parts of body (usually legs), in the same jargon people use to say that skirt is shorter – to show some parts of body (usually legs also). Using such words I didn’t have an idea of critising Lena’s body, I only had an idea about more suitable dress – you can notice that she had five different costumes for free dance and four different costumes for short dance (more than Meryl, Tessa, Natalie and Ekaterina all together). Talking about too slim ballet dancers – look at top ballet dancers (most of them anorectic) and maybe you will notice a difference between them and most of ice dancers Lena including (I definitely prefer more healthy ice dancers, but it doesn’t mean that I should agree with everything what they wear). And of course from all versions of dresses I may prefer some costumes more than others. If you find it not appropriate – I am deeply sorry.

Frenchie said:

My attempts to put you into any group: 0%
your attempts to put yourself into group of I/K fans: 0%
your attempts to put yourself into group of B/S fans: 100%
your attempts to put yourself into group of I/K not likers: 100%
your attempts to put yourself into group of B/S not likers: 0%
your honesty on your own objectivity while doing so: 0%.

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You don’t know me at all…so I will help you in this way…
Fan of dancing: 100%
Fan of all dancing qualities like (dance holdings, keeping the rhythm, difficult programs, expressing music/story): 100%
Fan of fighters: 100%

Frenchie said:

Well, that was my point: You always made sure to point out how you analyzed all the Ice Dance performances with absolute objectivity, and it was objective of you to point out how B/S were the deserving N°1 in Russia, had great flow and technique... when I/K screwed up almost every time, had inferior skills, oh and the latest: Ilinykh is too fat to wear her FD costume. Objectively.
Well, here we have a SD where there are dozens of posters here who say that B/S did not deserve to be held up like they were. The judges still held them up, and I agree with Midnightskates, as a "backup plan" if I/K make mistakes to ensure a Russian medal. Still, even the judges gave them more than 3 points less than I/K.
So, given your need to point out every flaw of I/K, while assuring everyone you're not at all subjective, I was led to believe you would comment on B/S's flaws. According to your "I/K are overrated" posts of the past, that would have meant at least one whole page of description of all B/S did wrong today. So yeah, your post about their performance today finally and definitively opened my eyes about not believing the self righteous crap that comes out of your perpetually I/K-bashing mouth.

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As to calling me an analyst (a person who analyze) – it was you who started with this, I never asked for it from you, than you spent a plenty of time to prove everybody that I am not an objective analyst…and now you congratulate yourself to take that title from me. To objectivity – you yourself wrote a few times that you make me calm despite the fact that you agree with many things I wrote, now you finally see that it was not objective at all, does it mean that you finally see yourself like not objective person as well?

I ever asked you to believe me? You really ever tried to? Somebody like you? NO! You know everything better than me, even an English language.

B&S short dance:
…costumes taken from ballroom dancing…
…first pose…balroom dance…
…a few seconds of waving mainly Bobrova’s upper body, head and back move backward, then fast move into the accent of music…every movements is finished, fully stretched and done from back to fingers…
…fastly went into first steps in close dance holds…
…finnstep starting – with clean edges, extended free leg, good upper body position, stop in one moments, good edges, final turns in finnstep in one moment (still loosing level, probably for not maching one step into the music)
…again in close dance hold…how unexpecting in ice dancing…
…not preparation for twizzles, jump and coming to twizzles, Dmitri is fighting – loosing balance in first half turn, but takes it back and finishes all sets of twizzles, both are travelling across the ice during twizzle, Bobrova’s upper body not perfect, Dmitri’s upper body perfect after that bad half turn…
…dance hold again…those steps with very good and deep edges…
…starting step sequence…very good edges, all movements finished, very good arms by both Katya and Dmitri, Dmitri dances slightly better than Katya using whole body more…overall if I would want it perfect I would say that it could be more playfully done…
…turn, a few step before…no preparation before lift...difficult lift…Dmitri in spread eagle, getting Katya from first position into second – he uses one arm only to lift all her weight…the rest of lift very good…
…then a looong part in close dance hold (again)…here I can see a problem with Katya’s posture – she tries to bend aside like in ballroom dancing, instead of it she bends forward and aside which creates not good posture – this takes four seconds…
…the rest of dancing in close holds is OK with upper body, one beautifull bend forward…moving of leg is questionable – you can’t fully stretch foot like ballroom dancers can with their shoes, so this movement is done with maximum possible stretch in skates…Katya sometimes uses one arm in close hold to make another move
…stop skating – 4-5 seconds on two feet…fast music starts again…and Katya and Dmitri again in close dance holds…matching the joy of music very well…
…I am not a fan of a movement when Dmitri puts Katya to glance between his legs…
…final pose…small jumps when Dmitri comes to Katya in too dynamic move and pushes her few centimeters aside…

Overall a lot of close dance holds, a lot of ballroom dance, difficult choreography, using whole body for expressing music, no resting parts, both of them have many steps to dance…out of synchro in twizzles…four seconds of not good Katya’s posture…
…how about basic ballroom position…during close holds when woman bends backward and slightly aside with her back and head…Katya has some moments in position which evoke ballroom dance perfectly…

But to appreciate such dance – it needs a comparison with somebody else:

I&K short dance:
Some notes…how are some I&K choreography movements connected to dance?
They come on the ice in great costumes, somebody noticed that it is like a party from movies like Big Gatsby…yes, tuxedo, it is really a high class society…I like costumes…
…I tend to think that Lena’s forefinger in opening pose means something like: ”Look at us, you will see something special.” What why are those forefingers in opening turn? What does it means?
…why is Nikita’s forefinger points to the judges?
…what the hell Nikita means slapping Lena’s backside?….and what he wants to say pointing to Lena with his forefinger (by the way Lena forgot to extend her free leg, out of synchro on this moment, Nikita’s free leg is perfect) – you can’t do such moves in high society party and I never saw it at ballroom dancing during quickstep…
…close holds and dancing (but starting to second ton in music, which is one tone later)
…I like all details during finnstep sections, finnstep looked sooo great (but not like bubbling like champagne like Meryl)
…close holds again just for while…a throw jump? Why?...Lena stumbles…covering it perfectly…two footed skating and one footed skating in open holds
…stop in skating…then two footed skating from both of them or at least one of them – 19 seconds of two-footed skating (and once again, why Lena points with her forefingers….to judges?..how they are connected to music?)
…less then ten seconds in close holds…once again Nikita takes Lena and make a turn of 360 degree with her…and once again Lena’s forefinger – this time turned to heaven – why? Did you see it in ballrooom?
…then lovely and smooth step seqeunce, but Nikita’s free leg is more extended than Lena’s free leg sometimes (just detail)…Lena is not fully stretching her arms - movements are not always finished thanks to it…Lena looses balance slightly at the end of sequence…
…10 seconds of preparation when everybody knows what will come…the twizzles…perfectly done this time…the best I ever saw from them…
…then looking for hands of eatch other for a second (not mistake at all)…
…too dynamic music is above them…
…nice but not difficult lift…
…once again Lena’s forefinger and middle-finger – is she ready to shoot somebody, how is it connected to music?

What I also don’t understand is Lena and Nikita’s posing for judges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcBop6cQV_k
As you may see at the video, a quickstep is dances in close holds, partners are together for whole time, and there is NO posing for anybody when would lady or men completely forget about the other one – but Nikita poses for judges while Lena stays behind his back (like she wouldn’t exist at all) and Lena does the same…once again it is a multi-member dance where all judges are included…but this is not in style of ballroom dancing…
…even once Lena doesn’t try to get that lovely position like in ballroom dance – with head and back bend backward…EVEN ONCE!

Statistics:
Close holds (finnstep including): B&S – 86 seconds, I&K – 39 seconds
Not touching each other (with step sequence and twizzles): B&S – 44 seconds, I&K – 63 seconds
Throw jumps: B&S – O, I&K – 1
Looks at judges: B&S – 13, I&K - 23
Big posing in front of judges: B&S – O, I&K – 1
Jump of one rotation: B&S – O, I&K – 1

bramweld said:

Frenchie, why are you stressing yourself out over Sisinka? Despite all the efforts of persons of that ilk, the kids won!!

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Thanks Bramweld for protecting me in front of Frenchie.
Yes, I also congratulate for I&K’s placement. And you, Bramweld, enjoy them, they are lovely!
And you can open champagne in the same time - dancing and skating qualities were knocked down, dancing is death and non-dancing was born.
But I am confused a little, who I should congratulate more – kids who did a great and clean job, or Morozov who persuaded everybody that such program can reach such marks especially in all components? Or to judges who really gave such marks after seeing such program? 9,18 for skating skills – for two footed and not touching skating? Really? 9,29 for choreo – of such simple program, not maching ballroom dance style? 9,25 for performance? 9,21 for timing? But you know quickstep and foxtrot or slow-foxtrot are a ballroom dances, it is not Hollywoodish entertaining program. And it should be judged so. If it is not, well, that is not my problem, but don’t be surprised that I noticed it and don’t agree with it.

Once again to all I&K fans – continue to love them – there are many reasons to do it, but dancing and skating qualities showed in program – this is a completely different story.

Marks were given, short dance is over, nobody is going to change the results…but what does such judgement say to the future?

Frenchie said:

I'm blaming me for falling for it in the past more than I'm blaming you for claiming it. Peace.

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Yes, peace! I don’t blame you for creating such bad person from me in front of people here, you don’t know me and I don’t feel a need to judge you for that.

I am sure it would be very interesting to talk to you personally, much more than here in such topic.

And now, please, Frenchie, forgive me all those sub or objective talks, I was asked to describe something/somebody (and that request comes from somebody who is dear to me), so I would like to try to write something without being interupted thanks to your comments. Thanks.

Frenchie said:

I did notice that. Just like B/S had an imperfection in the twizzles. The difference is that I/K were dazzling, charismatic and elegant in the rest of the program, and B/S were tense and -comparatively- awkward. I would have had I/K in 4th behind V/M, D/W and P/B. But I can understand how they were put slightly ahead of P/B. I would have had B/S around 8th or 9th. And I'm taking their "politicked bonus" into account, since there were several lesser ranked couples I enjoyed more.

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just one last sentence...those three words can be used for sooo many couples (probably even those who didn't qualified for the Olympics)...if I would give all of them 73 points, we would have at least 15 Bronze medalists.

MidnightSkater said:

Frenchie, we all know how vile some people on here can be.
Just be thankful you don't know them in your personal life.
Some of these nasty people who just see flags or their own favourites are best kept at a distance.
From day one of these games some people have tried to say "Russia BAD".........."North America GOOD".
They are stuck in the 80's.
I sat & watched amazing, talented & hard-working skaters yesterday & enjoyed each for their own merits, only to come on these boards & see nasty, petty people trashing skaters. They must be very sad people.

Click to expand...

bramweld said:

Frenchie, why are you stressing yourself out over Sisinka? Despite all the efforts of persons of that ilk, the kids won!! The kerfuffle of an Olympic season that Zhulin predicted for his OWN former students, he himself poured on B/S. How ironic is THAT! He is the sole reason that B/S underperformed here and the reason that I/K left him. He has taken his own rope and impaired himself with it. From this they all will learn that a little bit of respect and class pays significant dividends!!

Be happy, I'm hopeful that their development has just begun. I like that happy place so certain comments are best ignored.

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Thanks, guys. I'll definitely enjoy the happy place
I can't wait for the ladies tomorrow!

Oh yes please. Please let this competition be as good or even better than ice dance, because the men and pairs was sorta anti-climatic :yay: