Johnny Weir is talking nonsense...

Grgranny · Mar 28, 2004

Somehow, I always got the idea that when someone puts someone else down, they are insecure and trying to make themselves look better. If you don't like the way someone looks or skates, don't watch. I thought trashing people was something this board tries to avoid.
When people come on saying bad things about the others it certainly puts themselves in a bad light. I then tend to get resentful of the person trashing others.

shine · Mar 28, 2004

PML. My fandom for Weir just about rose 50%. Not. Does he think that his own LP is really that wonderfully choreographed? I say it's just a little more boring and monotonous than Joubert's Matrix. I'm no Plushenko fan, but maybe Weir should look at his own program before he criticizes others'?

juleswitz · Mar 28, 2004

Well Johnny hits beautiful positions, but he still looks like he's completely petrified. I love the music from "Doctor Zhivago" but I can barely remember his program. I like his short program, but he still looks emotionless. I think it'll take some time before he can fully attack like Plushenko does.

And isn't Plushenko's posing the main part of the title of his program? His tribute to Nijinsky? As Dick Button always points out which particular pose is a Nijinsky move...sort of a Nijinsky move...

April · Mar 28, 2004

Grgranny said:
Somehow, I always got the idea that when someone puts someone else down, they are insecure and trying to make themselves look better. If you don't like the way someone looks or skates, don't watch. I thought trashing people was something this board tries to avoid.
When people come on saying bad things about the others it certainly puts themselves in a bad light. I then tend to get resentful of the person trashing others.

Much agree, in some degree, I still think constructive criticism/trash talking is okay. What Weir said may sound a whole lot better if we all could actually hear it; because, constructive criticism would have a slightly differient tone from trash talking, which I think is sometimes an act of talking behind peoples back. Example, I have studied performance vocals and constructive criticism wasn't always that "you're great and everybody loves you" mumbo jumbo. I was critique by peers and instructors. I didn't like at the time, but I diffinitely feel I improved technically. Honesty is brutal sometimes. Question, who was Weir speaking with when he critiqued Plushenkco?

Grgranny · Mar 28, 2004

I should have been more clear. I wasn't talking about what he said. I was talking about putting him down and calling him girly, etc. To me, that is bashing.

Gardenkitty · Mar 29, 2004

Before any criticizes Johnny for not being as "macho" as Plushenko in skating, they should look at this picture of Evgeny from the Worlds gala.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/3...2&ev=1&dareq=4D1AE4CF9327DDB8AF5F802B4484EEAB

Seriously, I like them both even if they have different styles. Johnny may not be as politcally correct as some skaters in his interviews, but I think it's because he's had less practice than some others and he is trying to be honest and not say what everyone wants to hear. However he did make it clear that this is a "goal" and that he's not saying he's there right now.

curious · Mar 29, 2004

April said:
Much agree, in some degree, I still think constructive criticism/trash talking is okay. What Weir said may sound a whole lot better if we all could actually hear it; because, constructive criticism would have a slightly differient tone from trash talking, which I think is sometimes an act of talking behind peoples back. Example, I have studied performance vocals and constructive criticism wasn't always that "you're great and everybody loves you" mumbo jumbo. I was critique by peers and instructors. I didn't like at the time, but I diffinitely feel I improved technically. Honesty is brutal sometimes. Question, who was Weir speaking with when he critiqued Plushenkco?

Yes,I'm sure Plushy is taking notes lol! seriously Johnny has a right to his opinion but he knows he has to back up his comments

gellio · Mar 29, 2004

Re: Re: Constructive Criticism

rpiche said:
The thing about trash talking is that you have to have the goods to back it up. Yagudin and Evgeny were always close competition. You never know who could knock who off. Yes, Weir is a good skaters, but so far he couldn't challenge Evgeny on technical or presentation marks. Now if Jouber or Sandhu was quoted as saying that, then I could see it. But they didn't.

I don't know if I agree with this. I think the only time you didn't know who was going to win (between Yags and Plushy) was when Yags made a mistake (or more). I don't think Plushy had the goods to beat him, but rather Yags beat himself. I like Yags and his Olympic performances were the greatest ever, IMO. Someone on here said that Plushy gave the best performance ever at World's this year - couldn't disagree more. Sometimes I seriously wonder if the 4-3-3's, 4-3-2's, and 4-3's aren't the only reason he wins, because I seriously see nothing else that is the best in the field, except his jumps and combos. Of course the fact that most of the other guys make mistakes doesn't help, but Plushy's programs just bore me to death.

As for his exhibition this year - can I just say cheeso! I don't get how these skaters can't realize what they do, when they do exhibitions like that, isn't so cheesey!

curious · Mar 30, 2004

like yags didn't win comps because plushy made mistakes like the 2000 worlds with a real bad skate and the olys lol! I don't think we will ever see that kind of rivalry between two skaters from the same country again. they were excellent.

PrincessLeppard · Mar 30, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Constructive Criticism

gellio said:
I don't know if I agree with this. I think the only time you didn't know who was going to win (between Yags and Plushy) was when Yags made a mistake (or more). I don't think Plushy had the goods to beat him, but rather Yags beat himself. I like Yags and his Olympic performances were the greatest ever, IMO. Someone on here said that Plushy gave the best performance ever at World's this year - couldn't disagree more. Sometimes I seriously wonder if the 4-3-3's, 4-3-2's, and 4-3's aren't the only reason he wins, because I seriously see nothing else that is the best in the field, except his jumps and combos. Of course the fact that most of the other guys make mistakes doesn't help, but Plushy's programs just bore me to death.

As for his exhibition this year - can I just say cheeso! I don't get how these skaters can't realize what they do, when they do exhibitions like that, isn't so cheesey!

I said this on another board, and I will say it again. Yagudin and Plushenko are both great artists and technicians. It is not necessary to denigrate the talents of one because you prefer the other.

If you know skating, then you know why Plush wins. End of story.

Laura

libra 1 · Apr 16, 2004

Re: Re: Johnny..............

Ptichka said:
Dizzy, don't forget that his is the ordinals system, so the marks themselves don't matter. I agree that Plushy did NOT give a 6.0 performance; however, all that mattered was that the judges put him in first. And (without the benefit of having seen Lambiel) I agree with the final placements.

Plushy pres
I think he is a very dramatic skater. I just think he needs a new choreographer fast! I really think this program was not a good ice skating program; it had perhaps many elements that would have looked good on stage, but not on the ice. I feel that with a new choreographer he would become next-to-untouchable (next-to, siince as S&Z showed anything can happen). As it is now, though, he is more than defeatable.

Johnny's pres
I like the lyricism of his skating. However, I think he still has some juniorish quality. His arm movements, while beautiful, don't yet have the definition and maturity that, say, Plushy's do. I am sure, though, that this will improve.

Dear ptichka,
re: Plushy's presentation - Mishin announced that they will by all means get a new choreographer for the coming season ;

re: Johnny - he has a lot of romantic artistry which is very rare;

re: Lambiel - He was absolutely gorgeous and I agree with Mishin that Lambiel should have been second and not Jouberts

libra - from Russia, with love

floskate · Apr 16, 2004

I like the lyricism of his skating. However, I think he still has some juniorish quality. His arm movements, while beautiful, don't yet have the definition and maturity that, say, Plushy's do. I am sure, though, that this will improve.

Sorry I have to disagree with this. As a former dancer and now a teacher, I have a "thing" about arms. When I watch Plushy I don't see maturity and definition, I see a blur. It's distracting from his otherwise beautiful skating. His shoulders are up a lot which completely destroys the line of his arms. He also seriously over uses them and makes too much of his fingers in that they are spread to wide. I see nothing Juniorish in Johnny's arm movements. When I think of junior arms I see them held lower than the shoulders with horrible flexed hands and either ramrod straight or bent badly at the elbow. Good arms is really an artform in itself and - while Johnny still has a way to go - he's well on his way.

thisthingcalledlove · Apr 17, 2004

Tonichelle said:
Not taking a cheap shot at guys... but aren't most "heterosexual men" into themselves, the whole ego thing? So that'd make Johnny a MANLY skater, right? *runs and hides from the male population*

As a gay man, I would say that most men in general are into themselves. Think Michael Weiss and Carson of Queer Eye. Both are VERY into themselves.

hockeyfan228 · Apr 17, 2004

thisthingcalledlove said:
As a gay man, I would say that most men in general are into themselves. Think Michael Weiss and Carson of Queer Eye. Both are VERY into themselves.

Marginally on-topic: A friend of mine who saw Kressley, Filicia, and Douglas on a shoot in her neighborhood said that Kressley, for all of his TV shtick, seemed rather shy and neither demanding nor attention-seeking, until the cameras were rolling.

The couple of times I've seen Plushenko in public -- autograph signings and people walking up to him for pictures, etc. -- he's also seemed a bit shy and respectful, the opposite of his outgoing and theatrical performing style.

So maybe men of all stripes are expected to appear into themselves.

hockeyfan228 · Apr 17, 2004

Tried to edit, but quoted instead

Kasey · Apr 18, 2004

curious said:
like yags didn't win comps because plushy made mistakes like the 2000 worlds with a real bad skate and the olys lol! I don't think we will ever see that kind of rivalry between two skaters from the same country again. they were excellent.

Yags' "real bad skate" at 2000 Worlds had ONE fall, on the triple lutz, last jump of the program. Like it or not, he was cleaner there than Plush, that's why he won. And the Olympics??!! Please, if you think Plush's cheese short program, even clean, could have beaten Yags' "Winter"....well, whatever.

Kasey

Ogre Mage · Apr 18, 2004

Johnny Weir

Johnny reminds me a bit of Sasha Cohen when she first busted onto the scene -- brash in her comments and perhaps a bit too full of herself. But as she got used to being in the public eye, she matured and toned it down. Remember, this is Johnny's first brush with real fame. So I am inclined to be generous.

I actually think Johnny has a lot of talent and is my favorite U.S. Men's skater since Paul Wylie. Very soon I think he could rival Pushenko on the presentation mark. I am less certain if Johnny can take it up a notch technically, which he will need to do to challenge for gold. Brian Joubert has the reverse problem -- he's a match for Plush in technical merit, but lacks (memorable) presentation.

PrincessLeppard · Apr 18, 2004

Kasey said:
Yags' "real bad skate" at 2000 Worlds had ONE fall, on the triple lutz, last jump of the program. Like it or not, he was cleaner there than Plush, that's why he won. And the Olympics??!! Please, if you think Plush's cheese short program, even clean, could have beaten Yags' "Winter"....well, whatever.

Kasey

ALL RIGHT. I've had it. Apparently, no one bothered to read my post right after curious'.

But Evgeni's MJ SP had, in fact, beaten Alexei's Winter twice. Once at GWG, once at GPF, though Alexei went on to win that event.

They are BOTH amazing skaters. It isn't necessary to trash either of them.

Laura

RussianBolero · Apr 18, 2004

I think that curious was referring to Plushenko's "real bad skate" at 2000 worlds, not Yagudin's. That was the year Plush had the "meltdown" whilst chasing the elusive quad during his LP, IIRC.

Yagudin looked stunned after Plush's LP, as did Stojko and Weiss, who ended up on the podium as well.

And at Olys, Plush missed an element in his SP, which is what I think curious was referring to.

libra 1 · Apr 19, 2004

RussianBolero said:
Johnny's remarks about Plush sounded like constructive criticism to me. The section which was quoted, anyway, didn't sound like a personal attack. He was discussing Plush's skating, not discussing him as a person. I'm fine with it.

As to the costume, isn't an icicle a phallic symbol?

Dear RussianBolero,
Johnny Weir's discussion of Plushy's skating while being 5-th after the Worlds and Plushy being 3-times world champion reminds me of " sour grapes..."
BTW Johnny will be 20 in a couple of months and Zhenia is 21...

libra - from Russia, with love

Johnny Weir is talking nonsense...

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl

shine

juleswitz

April

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl

Gardenkitty

curious

gellio

curious

PrincessLeppard

~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~

libra 1

floskate

thisthingcalledlove

hockeyfan228

hockeyfan228

Kasey

Ogre Mage

PrincessLeppard

~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~

RussianBolero

libra 1

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