I'm seeing a theme here. Internet radar has detected suspicious activity.:scratch:
I am not denying her PCS is about 4 points too high for some people to take (personally I think her style of skating deserves the highest PCS but anyway since everyone, other than the judges, who by the way are from countries like CAN, JPN, GER, USA etc disagree) I'm willing to go with a lower #, but anyway that's besides the point. She would have won even if you decrease her PCS by over 7 points. She would have won.
Besides, it's not me, you, or Frank Carroll or anyone else for that matter who get to decide the PCS that a skater receives on the night in question. Do you really think these judges from countries who would have every reason to try to mark her down are really just deciding to give her these extra points? Only one judge is even from Russia. No one has been able to satisfactorily explain this to me: why they think the judges aren't allowed to judge what they see. That's the point.
Yes if a person deserves to win an event they need the most points to win. You can't give Julia lower scores that would cause her to lose! If a judge feels she was getting all the PCS categories to their max you need to reflect that in her score. You can't be a judge and be like "Wow JUlia was great! But she's 15 and not mao or yuna or Carolina and only they deserve 8 or 9 so I can't give that!" What? How does scoring work if its like that?
you really think Russian government trades oil for stupid medals? Then China can buy all judges and Obama can threaten to send them a pair of rockets. why not?Judges don't have to be from the same country as a skater to favor him/her unfairly. The thing is, the most common judging scandal isn't so much national bias among judges, as trading favors between judges/federations. This is the I-scratch-your-back-you-scratch-mine type of collusion. Russia can easily get the judges of other countries to favor Russian skaters if they can trade favors with said countries' federations. Example: the Russians can say to the US, if you tell your judges how good our pairs team are, we'll make sure our judges are aware of how much better D/W are compared to V/M. And it doesn't even have to be skating favors, Russia with all its money can easily tell neighboring Eastern European governments: tell your skating judges how great Yulia and Adelina are and we'll open up trade/leave you alone/make more oil/gas available, etc. Not saying that this is actually what is happening now behind the scenes, but people who are dismissing the claims of biased judging simply because there is only ONE Russian judge in the panel are sorely overlooking the bigger picture. Russia doesn't even need ANY Russian judge on the panel to rig the results at all.
you really think Russian government trades oil for stupid medals? Then China can buy all judges and Obama can threaten to send them a pair of rockets. why not?
you really think Russian government trades oil for stupid medals? Then China can buy all judges and Obama can threaten to send them a pair of rockets. why not?
So, the judges felt that Julia deserved to win so they gave her the scores so she can win?
...Um, okay.
So, the judges felt that Julia deserved to win so they gave her the scores so she can win?
...Um, okay.
Yes but also it was lots of judges views that she was deserving of the marks and that kostner didn't deserve the highest marks just because she's kostner. Or one 10 and lots of 9s were inappropriate just because the beneficiary would be Julia. People are saying that Julia doesn't deserve the great marks but are not making their point understandable at all. Why can't Julia get a 9.50 or 10? She totally fulfills pcs bullet points and its up to the judges to give those marks.
Good lord, I said very clearly I don't think that's actually what is happening. I'm just arguing against folks dismissing biased judging simply because "there's only one Russian judge". We KNOW that in the past judges and federations have traded favors like this. And yes, believe me, the Russians and Putin in particular care very strongly about those gold medals. The US not so much. At most only NBC and some corporate sponsors, and the few US fans who still watch winter sports.
People are saying that Julia doesn't deserve the great marks but are not making their point understandable at all. Why can't Julia get a 9.50 or 10? She totally fulfills pcs bullet points and its up to the judges to give those marks.
...and this way leads to conspiracy theories. So, okay, whatever. At this point I really don't care. I just want to see my favourite skaters skate well and see them be happy with the results, no more no less.
Okay, if you're saying that PCS are not relative scores, then I can see it. So that would mean that, for example, Julia getting better SS points in PCS over Caro does not have to indicate that when I look at their edge techniques next to each other, I (or most people) should usually find Julia's techniques to be better than Caro's therefore deserving of the higher SS. PCS, in this case, would mean that the judges looked at Julia's performance and just gave her the scores they thought she should get at the moment, not relative to any other skaters' skills. Is that right, or am I totally confused?
Not that I know anything about the intricate nature of how to judge and score FS performances outside what I've learned from here and there, but. But, okay, even if PCS isn't relativistic to what other skaters are capable of (a big if that doesn't make sense to me, to be honest), I would still find it weird that Julia's own PCS scores jumped significantly during just four months. I don't think Julia improved quite that much? I mean, she's been always pretty consistent with what she puts out there. I find it hard to buy that the judges felt that now she suddenly deserves 9.5 and 10 when she didn't mere four months ago, unless there was some sort of policy or category changes among the judges.
...and this way leads to conspiracy theories. So, okay, whatever. At this point I really don't care. I just want to see my favourite skaters skate well and see them be happy with the results, no more no less.
And vice versa
Your ignorance also extends to the fact that you have not read what I said - a clean Mao and Kim will beat a clean Julia L
Kostners PCS marks have always been inflated, and a clean Kostner can no longer beat a clean Julia L
Yes the first paragraph is exactly right.