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Thread: Yulia Lipnitskaya: Olympic Thread

  1. #16
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    I always find it interesting when some people say it's always fair if an American loses, if an American complains about losing, it's terrible, but it's fair and wonderful if someone from another country does the same.

    Plushenko in 2010 did a boring skate with a quad and some jumps at a time when "transitions" were in. It could've gone either way, and if Plushenko is that angry and bitter, it says something about his state of mind.

    Julia spins a lot better than Gracie and her program was more interesting. She deserved to win--maybe not by 12 points, I'll grant you--but the judging at that event was fair, for once. If Frank is really all that bitter, it says something about his state of mine.

  2. #17
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    I think Yulia should justly win PCS over Gracie, though Gracie should be scoring quite a bit higher on skating skills and their transitions scores should probably be more comparable. But there is no denying Yulia's PCS was insane (whereas I'd say Gracie's was fair) - they are setting her up to pull over 70 in the FS, which is absurd when you look at what normally receives a 70 or above.

    I don't mind Frank Carroll calling this out. Somebody within the skating community needs to criticize the ridiculous judging, it's just I think this was a stupid move and could hurt Gracie. You don't want to create bad blood between Gracie and the judges. Even if the judges do not intentionally punish her, unconscious bias matters.

  3. #18
    Currently frozen as a popsicle Chemistry66's Avatar
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    I don't find Carroll calling out the scoring WHILE agreeing that Julia deservedly won bad at all. He's not criticizing her or her placement. Just the actual scoring by the judges.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    New article in which Frank Carroll criticises Julia Lipnitskaya's PCS scores:-

    Frank Carroll's comments were completely irresponsible. He is the coach of another competitor who has a responsibility to keep his own thoughts to himself. To criticise another competitors scores before an upcoming competition is simply not on when they have a vested interest in the outcome. His comments can be construed as nothing other than blatant politicking - an attempt to talk down a competitors scores. I hope the Russian team lodge a full complaint with the ISU, as coaches should not be allowed to make remarks like this before such an important competition

    For the record, Julia L received no 10's for her PCS scores.... Did not even get that right!
    Wrong – Frank Carroll's job, as Gracie Gold's coach is to do everything he can to position Gracie Gold as well as he can. If he is politicking for her, there's nothing wrong with that – you can bet your bottom dollar the coaches of Yu-Na Kim, Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner, Ashley Wagner, Adelina Sotnikova and (believe it or not) Julia Lipnitskaia are doing exactly the same thing. If he wasn't politicking for Gracie, you could almost argue he wasn't doing his job as her coach.
    The question is, is he really politicking against Julia? Personally, I don't think anything said or done at this level is done by accident, but if he is, this is a very subtle way of doing it. Yes, she's great, yes, there are parts of her skating I like, but she's 15 – she's not there yet? If he'd really wanted to call the judges out, there are much stronger ways of doing it than the words he chose. Goodness, we see stronger words than that on this forum every day!

  5. #20
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    ITA with Frank said and he said in a respectful, nice way. I would have been more blunt.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by yelyoh View Post
    I agree with Frank and I don't always.

    I do, too. I think to act like she's completely perfect and as if any criticism of her is bananas (as much of the media is doing) is actually a disservice to Julia. She IS great. She's a phenom and amazing to watch. But there are things that are not perfect; that she can improve- and just imagine how amazing she'll be to watch then. FC said she deserved to win; constructive criticism does not make someone a "hater". FC has earned the right to respectfully express his opinion.

  7. #22
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    I agree with you pangtongfan. His reply was polite and it was a simple answer to a query. He did not bash Yulia, quite the contrary he praised her and stated she was the fair winner. He just expressed his opinion.
    I feel that there has been a growing tendency in this forum to jump at each other’s throat (and I count myself in this as well) as soon as someone expresses his/her own personal view over our favourite skaters. As long as the opinion is politely expressed and does not aim to disrespect a skater, I think we can refrain from reacting negatively. There is no reason in having this forum if we keep on thumping each other when someone does not agree with us.

  8. #23
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    He he basically implies that Chan deserves his inflated scores, but Julia doesn't?

  9. #24
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    I am glad Frank pointed out the ridiculous overscoring of Julia's pcs. In less than 3 months she went from low 60's to virtually 70's( which surely she will get in the individual if she does what she did in the team event). A very similar discrepancy in pcs scores has occured in Adelina's score. How can such juniorish and uninspired programmes score so close pcs wise to programmes like those that Carolina had in the last 4 years? Even outscore some of them by a big margin. Shame on the judging panel (in pairs and ladies 2 are Russians and 1 is Ukrainian) and whoever has their back. No matter how much julia's supporters try to find an explanation for her undeserved over inflated scores the truth is simple: for either Julia or Adelina to have a chance at the Olympic gold or podium they needed to be in the same league as Caro, Yuna and Mao pcs wise and surprise surprise that just happened!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Carrol did not say Gold deserved to beat Julia in the womens LP despite that she had an excellent and clean skate, with in reality better quality triples and better basic skating skills than Julia. He said the scores for Julia were too high. Whether you agree or not, he is within his rights to say that, as there are others who have said the same thing. It is hardly a far fetched claim. Also a reporter asked him his opinion, so he told the truth as opposed to lieing.
    He told his opinion, shared by many... but it was a lie when he mentioned the 10's.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    The person who is bitter is Carroll - that is why he is complaining. You are obviously very bitter as well.
    Even if what he did can be called "complaining" he is simply RIGHT. Her PCS were far too high. In no way could they be justified, shouldn't have been that close to Mao's and Carolina's PCS.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemistry66 View Post
    I don't find Carroll calling out the scoring WHILE agreeing that Julia deservedly won bad at all. He's not criticizing her or her placement. Just the actual scoring by the judges.
    This

  13. #28
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    He's known to speak his mind, so there.

    And no, Julia didn't get Chan's PCS. Hers used to be at the similar level as Gracie's, but a couple of months later and after a single event, it just jumped to the PCS at the same level as the five-time European Champion, the gold medalist of the last Olympic, and the silver medalist of the last Olympics, all of whom happen to be also multiple-time World Champions (well, only once for Caro but she medaled at four other times).

    So, no, I don't think Frank was rude.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    He he basically implies that Chan deserves his inflated scores, but Julia doesn't?
    His point is that Chan is a mature skater and has the finer points that go into PCS down, while Julia does not.

  15. #30
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    I have a vague, uneasy feeling that Julia L is another Oksana Bauil. Charming, to be sure, but I just don't see her making it through the next quad. I understand the hype around her as the new, best, young thing, but when you look below the surface, to quote Gertrude Stein, "there is no there, there." When you compare her to other phenoms at this age such as Michelle Kwan, Kim, and Asada, she pales in comparison.

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