I think it is bad practice to make such comments but good for his skater of course. I now Carroll is well respected though he also has some negative things said about him too by skaters in his way of dealing with skaters. I think he should shut up until after the Olympics.
A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.
Originally Posted by chapis
I suppose I need to reclassify this person. Unless it was intentional.
Mao88 is an awesome poster and I respect her very much because I know she loves the sport of figure skating. She is no troll - and this is coming from someone that disagrees with her in this case.
Originally Posted by FlattFan
I don't think it was smart for Carroll to make a comment about another skater scores. This could come back to haunt him. He could say no comment if asked. I like both Julia and Gracie and I hope they both skate their best.
As a long time lurker I have to confess that I don't understand all of the fine details at go into making one skater's "skating skills" so much better than another's. But as a fan of figure skating for more than 25 years I have a pretty good sense of what makes a memorable program. When I think of Philippe Candeloro with his 3 Musketeer program or Tara Lapinski skating to Little Women for example you see what can happen when a skater chooses the right music and skates cleanly when it matters most. They often defeat skaters who are considered better (and trust me I was a Michele Kwan fan all the way). This is what I see happening with Julia. She has coaches who were smart enough to choose music that has not been over used and which suits the personality of their skater. She is absolutely haunting as the little girl in the red dress, she looks and acts the part to perfection. When she skates cleanly to this program she creates a moment that sticks in your mind and really moves the casual viewer like myself. I think sometimes more dedicated fans look for things to dislike in the rivals of their favorite skaters (I am guilty of this as well). The fact is that in the Olympic year, when the packaging of a skater matters the most, Lipnitskaya's team has packaged her better than any other skater this year (ex. see the recent program changes by Wagner and Caro, as well as the earlier changes to Gold's programs). Is she overscored? Possibly, I'm not a judge so I'll leave that to the experts. But perhaps the reason she is being scored higher now is that she was being underscored earlier in the year when she was just one in a pack of baby Russians. I have no problem with her results at any competition this season. She has deserved every placement she has received in my opinion. I also would like to remind everyone that each Olympics seems to create the same debate about biased scoring or over inflated scores especially in the since of a new skater compared to a more experienced skater (Petrenko vs Browing, Baiul vs Kerrigan, Lipinski vs Kwan, Hughes vs Kwan, Lysacek vs Plushinko, etc). That's just the nature of a judged sport.
Wrong, maybe (I think I even agree with you about it since enough people have said it so it must be true) but it has not changed the final results. Increase Carolina's SS score to a perfect 10 and increase her TR score score by 0.5 Julia still wins the SP. Arbitrarily decide that her overall PCS should have increased by 5 points, well Julia would have lost the SP, but has a 10-point TES advantage in the LP so Julia would have won if it was decided by points like for the individual. Regardless the result for the team competition is the same even if Julia placed 5th or 6th in the SP. For Mao there's even less reason to be upset, under-rotating, two-footing, and then falling on the 3Axel is what dropped her in points. Increase Mao's PCS by 7 points and she's still in third.
Originally Posted by FlattFan
And what's with people not checking the protocols and realizing that there was a single ten for interpretation from one of the judges. When the two were dropped and the other seven averaged out, the resulting number would have been the same or within 0.10 of the result, whether or not the 10 was one of the two dropped.
Regarding 60.88 for PCS at SC: If Mao can go from getting a 65 PCS at COP 2012 to 70 PCS at 2013 SA for similar performances and Carolina getting 71 PCS at Euros 2014, then Julia who's LP leaps ahead of what she did last year should have been receiving 63 at SC, 67 at Euro's and 66 at the team event FS. Drop each of those by at least 7 points? She still wins those competitions decisively. Raise everyone else PCS by at least 7 points? She still wins.
In the LP if Yuna and Mao and Carolina perform to their ability Julia will get maybe 69 again while they get 74+, so what's the big deal? If Carolina got 71 at Europeans, then with inflation those three will get 75 or higher probably.
Thank you for what you said. One thing though, Julia is the one who decided that she was going to skate to Schindler's List. Her coaches and choreographer told her she couldn't but she refused to give in until they let. Eteri, her coach said this a couple of months ago. Julia chose the music, came up with the idea of the red coat-like the girl in the movie and has made the costumes this year with her mom, like she always had. I really love the change of dress she made for the SP from SC to COR, the first one just wasn't quite right. Anyway knowing all this has made me lose my temper when I've read elsewhere, people criticize-complementing her coaches and choreographer, saying that they were smart and manipulative to choose SL, when Julia is the one who chose and is doing this because it means something to her.
Originally Posted by Risa
Everyone's getting jealous of Julia and it's sad! Embracing amazing new talent is sometimes hard because they replace other talents.
If she chose the music herself and designed her costume then even more credit to her. Like I said before I find the whole effect of her long program to be stunning in a very haunting way.
Originally Posted by Isabel_O'Reilly
02-13-2014, 08:39 PM
I don't think anyone's denying that she's an amazing talent, or that she would've won the game. Maybe not as much as the scores suggest and not at the expense of other amazing skaters who have proven themselves, and not with that much gap with Gracie. I honestly think if everyone was inflated at the same level or if she wasn't so obviously held up, I think most of us would be so glad that one of the new talents has finally stepped up to the plate to become the anointed one when all the veterans are ready to leave the stage, but now...
Originally Posted by gmyers
All this "Julia clearly deserves every point she's got but you don't see it because you're nothing but jealous fans" outcry honestly baffles me. I mean, seriously, you guys think she wasn't overscored at all? That she deserved everything she got even when her scores are compared to everyone else's?
If your answer is yes, then it doesn't matter that some of us don't agree, because we're clearly in the wrong and we clearly need our heads examined, right? Maybe Frank is wrong too, but like Mathman says, judges don't care what he thinks or what some of us think. And if you're right and Julia is that amazing, I'm sure she'll prove us wrong in the upcoming years anyway. Time will tell.
Meanwhile, I'm going to voice my opinions, and no disrespect to Julia and her talents is meant.
02-13-2014, 09:00 PM
BTW definitely the "jumping shrimp" is waaaaay over scored FC is right on the money
Originally Posted by Mao88
02-13-2014, 09:05 PM
If FC was a commentator for NBC I would agree with you; when he's a coach of another competitor it's different story, it comes across as a little classless to give commentary on another skater the week before a competition.
Originally Posted by ranjake
02-13-2014, 09:07 PM
People are quickly to say so and so are jealous of her success. I would tell you now that I ain't jealous! Did you not hear from her mouth that her parents don't work anymore, and they are enjoying her success. Who would be jealous of that? This is the equivalent of Hollywood child star syndrome (Dina Lohan type) but without the Hollywood money.
Sad thing is, she has a long long life ahead of her, and with parents like that, it will be very long.
To sum up the situation: she's a 15yo girl who's fearless, who's consistent, who's skating for the right country at the right time in her life. That's all. If she's skating for China or something, her score would plummet by 20 points at least. The extra points on PCS, GOE are not based on her innate talent. Too bad other skaters are screwed over to make room for this girl.
02-13-2014, 09:11 PM
I simply prefer other ladies to Julia. She is very young and already has a lot of fans. There is plenty of room for her and all of us are fans that favor some skaters over others - I would not characterize protesting inflated calls jealousy.
Originally Posted by gmyers
02-13-2014, 09:15 PM
Why is time will tell? Is her time not now? Why?
Originally Posted by vegarin
Pcs doesn't come with a concrete "this equals that" how could it? Judges are being presented different things by every skater? How is 10 wrong in interpretation? What is a 10? What would be a 10 by Julia doing her program? Do you have an idea? Or is totally impossible for Julia to get one 10 at euros for interpretation?
If a person deserves to win they need the scores to win! Those scores need to be high!