Yulia Lipnitskaya: Olympic Thread | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Yulia Lipnitskaya: Olympic Thread

cjsk8fan

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Mar 11, 2005
It didn't sound like complaining to me. Frank said she deserved to win the free program, he just stated that she was not on par with getting the same marks as a Patrick chan, which I think most of us can agree on. I also appreciate that he states his opinion.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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It didn't sound like complaining to me. Frank said she deserved to win the free program, he just stated that she was not on par with getting the same marks as a Patrick chan, which I think most of us can agree on. I also appreciate that he states his opinion.

Do you think any judges will have Franks comments in mind when Gracie faces judging? Just wondering? Could these comments haunt the scores by even a half point here or there?
 

vegarin

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Mar 19, 2013
Do you think any judges will have Franks comments in mind when Gracie faces judging? Just wondering? Could these comments haunt the scores by even a half point here or there?

Many people have already said on this very thread that judges don't give crap about what Frank Carroll may or may not have said. It's your choice if you want to believe whatever you want to believe, but Frank has commented on Chan's PCS before. Do you think it had any effect whatsoever on his scores? Ask anyone.
 

cjsk8fan

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I don't know if the judges actually care what Frank Carroll thinks, but if his comments do effect judging of Gracie then I believe that is just as bad or worse than over scoring Julia. I do think his comments are overblown. There is truth to them. I don't know why posters here feel that he was attacking Julia because he believed Gracie should have won the free program, he did not say that. Frank thought Julia PCS were too high for where she is in her skating ability. She is a talent and he recognized that, also stating she won the free program. Where is the scandal in that ? I, too, believe she is not at the nine, ten level.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Many people have already said on this very thread that judges don't give crap about what Frank Carroll may or may not have said. It's your choice if you want to believe whatever you want to believe, but Frank has commented on Chan's PCS before. Do you think it had any effect whatsoever on his scores? Ask anyone.

I don't condone any such judging practices but so many assume that the judging is unfair/bribed/corrupt and I was just asking for the sake of discussion. I hope the best girl wins and strongly believe if any of the top girls get a medal it will be well deserved.
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

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I don't know if the judges actually care what Frank Carroll thinks, but if his comments do effect judging of Gracie then I believe that is just as bad or worse than over scoring Julia. I do think his comments are overblown. There is truth to them. I don't know why posters here feel that he was attacking Julia because he believed Gracie should have won the free program, he did not say that. Frank thought Julia PCS were too high for where she is in her skating ability. She is a talent and he recognized that, also stating she won the free program. Where is the scandal in that ? I, too, believe she is not at the nine, ten level.

She is not at the nine, ten level. I don't know what protocols he looked at but Julia only received a single 10 in IN from the russian judge, probably, at Europeans also, a 9.75 in PE, which given the sublime performance she gave in the prograam was perfectly well deserved. All the rest of her scores vary from, high sevens and eights for SS and TR which the judges have always recognized as her weakness (her score has always been significantly lower in SS and then even lower in TR, which I see as a strength for her so I don't understand that), to mainly mid to high eights for PE, IN, and CH. You cannot deny that she has been getting better all season especially in the latter three.

People seem to be forgetting or just not realizing that that single 10 and 9.75 would have been dropped before the remaining seven were averaged. That's the whole point of this system to drop the highest and lowest as outliers, and go with the majority voiced by seven judges. And people will see this as unfair? That the majority of her components were from 8.00 to 8.75? I could for example complain that she was given 7.25, 7.50, and 7.75s from some of the judges in IN and CH when I felt those were too low for the level of skating she gave on that night but I won't. That's the whole point, these judges have a range of decisions on her components, just like for any other skater. And we need to respect it.

Regarding her performance at the team event, I am perfectly alright with what she received in SS and transitions, mainly because I believe her TR score should be higher, but let's see: Julia had 8.43, 8.07, while Carolina had 8.64, 8.36. Let's say everyone in the world suddenly unanimously decides that Julia's were too high. Change her SS score to 7.43 close to the lowest she's had all season and also drop TR to 7.07, Julia still wins. Drop all of them by 0.50 so each component is 7.XX except for CH which would be 8.04(CH definitely deserves to be at eight or higher and Julia still wins. Drop them a bit further and Julia might tie with Carolina: the tie-breaker TES, Julia wins. For Mao increase each PCS component (by the way she was marked higher on SS just like Carolina was) to a 9.5. She's still in third. the reason she lost was becase of the triple Axel.

In the FS, increase everyone else's PCS to 9.5. Julia still wins.
 

aftertherain

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Disgraceful comments by Frank Carroll. This is blatant politicking, as it would suit both him and Gracie Gold absolutely fine if the judges started reducing Julia Lipnitskaya's PCS scores.

LOL.

It would better benefit everyone if Julia's PCS marks were reduced.

And politicking?

Please.

It's not like the federations (and personal coaching teams) of your favorite skaters don't do it. Let's just say it right now, figure skating is a political sport.
 

AnastasiaO

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Feb 14, 2014
I totally agree with you. I still can't get over the fact that she got similar PC's with Mao Asada, who is clearly superior (even with the fall and the mistakes on the jumps)
 

Amei

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Nov 11, 2013
I don't know if the judges actually care what Frank Carroll thinks, but if his comments do effect judging of Gracie then I believe that is just as bad or worse than over scoring Julia. I do think his comments are overblown. There is truth to them. I don't know why posters here feel that he was attacking Julia because he believed Gracie should have won the free program, he did not say that. Frank thought Julia PCS were too high for where she is in her skating ability. She is a talent and he recognized that, also stating she won the free program. Where is the scandal in that ? I, too, believe she is not at the nine, ten level.

My comment about it, is that him commentating on her was inappropriate for his current position. If Frank Carroll was a commentator for NBC, his comments would be completely fine, but he is the coach of another Olympic competitor.

And I disliked the 'she's good but not that good' - I hate sentences that start with compliment and end with an insult; it makes the compliment seem disingenuous; like you were saying a compliment so that you could criticize someone but pretend like you weren't.
 

cjsk8fan

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Mar 11, 2005
Frank said she is excellent but not fabulous .....yet. Read the comments again. I don't think they were as negative as you think. Julia doesn't deserve those huge PCS, but she is a huge talent and Frank recognizes that
 

ginal

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Feb 15, 2014
I agree with Frank. I thought both plushenko and lipnitskaya were overscored in team competition. Julia does not have the maturity yet. She doesn't know how to pause in her program and let people enjoy the moment, she just keeps going from one thing to another, just spinning, spinning, spinning. Yes she has the unbridled energy of a 15 year-old but I don't feel she has the PCS she got. She is very pretty though, gorgeous.
 

Zamboni

On the Ice
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Dec 10, 2013
New article in which Frank Carroll criticises Julia Lipnitskaya's PCS scores:-



Disgraceful comments by Frank Carroll. This is blatant politicking, as it would suit both him and Gracie Gold absolutely fine if the judges started reducing Julia Lipnitskaya's PCS scores. Carroll should just get over it - Julia L is just a much better skater than Gracie Gold, and thoroughly deserved the PCS scores she received in the team event and at Europeans. The performances she has produced in relation to her Schindler's List free program have been stunning - artistry, expression, musicality, grace, elegance - the full package. The skater whose PCS scores looked a bit inflated, if anybodies were - were Gracie Golds. But was Frank criticising his own skaters scores? Of course not.

Frank Carroll's comments were completely irresponsible. He is the coach of another competitor who has a responsibility to keep his own thoughts to himself. To criticise another competitors scores before an upcoming competition is simply not on when they have a vested interest in the outcome. His comments can be construed as nothing other than blatant politicking - an attempt to talk down a competitors scores. I hope the Russian team lodge a full complaint with the ISU, as coaches should not be allowed to make remarks like this before such an important competition

For the record, Julia L received no 10's for her PCS scores.... Did not even get that right!

He never said that Gracie was better than Julia. He said Julia has been overscored, and she was -- wildly overscored in some areas.

He also said she deserved to win the free skate, but he thinks that there are some things she could improve upon, which she can. She still has some immature qualities to her skating because she is only 15.

Clearly you think Julia is just perfect the way she is and has no need for improvement. :laugh:
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
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Nov 30, 2013
I agree with Frank. I thought both plushenko and lipnitskaya were overscored in team competition. Julia does not have the maturity yet. She doesn't know how to pause in her program and let people enjoy the moment, she just keeps going from one thing to another, just spinning, spinning, spinning. Yes she has the unbridled energy of a 15 year-old but I don't feel she has the PCS she got. She is very pretty though, gorgeous.

I don't mean to be offensive with what I'm saying here, really only the first sentence is intended to be for you. You statement just helped me to start to put in words what I have been meaning to say. I realize you're entitled to your opinion, and that you might not like the way her programs convey her meaning to others. But that is the way I've always felt about the majority of programs from other top skaters, that there just wasn't something quite right. I'm not going to mention who because I refuse to say anything uncalled for, but feeling that the program wasn't great didn't prevent me from acknowledging that they skated so well and fully deserved their top placements.


Pausing in the program to do nothing for a few moments at at time might help you enjoy the program, however, even more than earlier this season, the last two times she's skated, especially for the FS, she just wove something like a magical spell over most people who are watching. I wasn't able to enjoy watching the program for the team event the first time on a live-stream because I was worrying about what all the people on here would say. Well then some people might say why don't you just not read what people say here? The problem is I want to find comments from other people who enjoy her skating as much as I do.

People were being so critical though, that I knew even if she skated flawlessly (she skated near flawlessly), according to the judges, the audience, the commentators, the other skaters, the majority of the viewing audience, that people will still be saying that her skating doesn't measure up in some way. They keep repeating the same tired old statements and refusing to see that her sure jumps, even if they're not as high as some people would like are incredible because, other than at COR, they're usually rock-solid, meaning people(and judges) will stay absorbed in the performance. Besides other than a couple of notable jump combination where the entrance, height, flow, exit, were fantastic she never receives more than the equivalent of 1s for all of her jumps (1s, a couple 2s, and a couple 0s equate to all 1s. 1s are more than fully deserved for her jumps. Also they usually cover great distance, at COR SP I was watching the ice to see exactly how far her blades were from the ice because I've never thought that her jumps were too low and I realized that she covers a distance greater than her body height. You can clearly see that if you pause the video, see where she is in relation to the writing and the logo on the ice, and ignoring the camera moving while focusing on the ice that she jumps at least 5 feet. They don't see that her spins are amazing regarding position, speed and the majority of the time centering (not the last two split spins at the Olympics). Not recognizing that in CH, IN, and PE her skating is improving to the level of the top-tier. All of these things are woven together in such a way to make her skating mesmerizing for most people. Not SS, but you drop that down to 6.00 and the results remain unchanged, so that doesn't matter to me in the least, especially since she receives such a low score for TR. Can anyone explain that? People keep arguing about her PCS going up but she is skating like champion in the performance and execution of her choreography and the interpretation of the music. Only at vocal minority dislike her and don't approve of her scores.

I've always enjoyed her skating even all last year. People were being so critical even as she was experiencing an enormous growth spurt and skating with an injury. But this year the majority of other people are recognizing that her PCS was satisfactory earlier this season and now has really bloomed. In these last two competitions her skating flies by from beginning the end as Sandra(?) put it on the broadcast and she has the moments of quality that the judges reward, as Johnny put it. I thought her performance was flawless when I watch the NBC PVR recording. It is perfectly deserving of 69. Yuna Kim had 74 at the last Worlds to put things into perspective. And PCS scores do change throughout the season when the overall skating calls for it. Mao went from 64 to 69 last season and from 64 then to 70 now. PCS is scored based on quality. When they give the performances they are capable of Julia will receive 69.xx while Yuna receives at least 74.xx. Of course all bets are off if people falter.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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@Isabel O'reilly

I don't understand why people say such negative things. I think while Yulia is still underdeveloped in a few areas, to me a least, she is over developed in others. I actually feel excited(my heart races)to watch her skate and no matter what she places ill just be happy to watch her skate. I feel she has risen to her top form in spite of her critics and shortcomings. In the words of Gracie Gold...that girl may not have a spine but she has nerves of steel
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

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@Isabel O'reilly

I don't understand why people say such negative things. I think while Yulia is still underdeveloped in a few areas, to me a least, she is over developed in others. I actually feel excited(my heart races)to watch her skate and no matter what she places ill just be happy to watch her skate. I feel she has risen to her top form in spite of her critics and shortcomings. In the words of Gracie Gold...that girl may not have a spine but she has nerves of steel

Yes, exactly. You managed to say what I meant much more eloquently.

:clap:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Yap, yap, yap, Frank! An old bitter man!

Oh, he's not an old bitter man. He's always been cranky, just as Plushenko has always been arrogant. both men have substantial enough achievements that they have earned the right to express their prickly personalities.
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
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Nov 30, 2013
Right things to say. Watching Yulia's skating, i feel like she's junior.

Again just your opinion. When someone gives me concrete, objective reasons why the SP and FS she performed at Europeans and the team event do not fulfill the individual criteria of the program components besides saying (her skating is junior, as if that communicates anything but your dislike) then I will consider what evidence you have. In the meantime her skating has improved by leaps and bounds compared to what she performed at SC and the GPF.

I would hope FC would get it right and realize that she never receive more than a single ten for IN at Euros for the FS which was dropped anyway when the scores are averaged, along with the too-low 7.25. The majority of her SP marks were below 8.5 and the FS below 8.75.

In the team event SP, Yulia received 7s and 8s. Carolina received 8s, 9s and 10s. In the FS, Yulia performed an exquisitely choreographed program with wonderful interpretation of the music and fully deserved several 9.00s in those categories, her overall components were still all well below nine, especially SS and TR.

Gracie Gold's program was well-skated, but there was a disconnect between her elements and the music she was skating to. Still I think her components should have reached the low eights. SS 8.07 for example, so the overall PCS would have been around 63, 64 which I believe was where it should have been.
 
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