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Thread: Russian opposition politician says 'Invalid' Plushenko brings 'shame' to Russia

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    First of all SkaterBoy, I don't think Davis and White have lost the charisma of yesterday. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think they just get better and better. Just a little OT there. Didn't mean to digress but couldn't let that pass.

    Okay - Plush wanted to COMPETE (in big capital letters) I want to land a quad toe.......but some mornings when I get out of bed I can hardly walk -so wanting and being able to do something are worlds apart. But I also don't think for a minute that Plush, had he skated, would have been in contention for the bronze! His jumps alone, even if landed, were not enough to out skate someone such as Dai, Fernandez, Ten, etc. who have the whole package. His choreography was dismal in the team competition.-I realize the Russian federation was using him as a draw to put butts in seats. And it worked judging by the number of empty seats that were empty after he disqualified himself. What I think is sad in this whole brouhaha is that a young man's health has been compromised and he has injuries that will most likely impair him for the rest of his life. Hope those ticket sales were worth it!

    I think itis

    As for Kovtun - I said this in another thread. He should defect!!!
    Noskates i totally can appreciate your position on D and W but the truth is while they have dominated they are not of the character on or off the ice ie Plushenko that is truly memorable. Of course they are the in vogue team right now relatively speaking but that is with any fashio or sprot - to be a legacy is something else. Not everyone can be the it team or there would be no specialness but that is the difference Plushy is a legacy and icon.. like Liz Taylor for movies or Wayne Gretzky for hockey or Susan Lucci for soaps they transcend and you want to see them battle to the end. Sadly while it was not unanticipated Plushy's body coudl not handle two competitions so close. voronov and Kovotun have both proven themselves to be absolute wild cards brilliant one day and out of top 15 next. Plushy some how performs when it counts - even second at nationals isn't so shabby.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Plush should get the poor sportsmanship award of the decade. From the beginning this has been a selfish seizure on his part.
    ITA. I have no doubt that he loves his country, but loves himself a lot more; I also have no doubt that he's capable of cheering on his fellow teammates, but won't hesitate to push anyone aside to grab the spotlight for himself, motherland or not.

    While there's nothing wrong with holding your own interests dearly at heart, I guess it's a matter of how far you are willing to go to secure it. In my mind, his behavior and the consequence of it make him a very poor sportsman.

    ETA: not to mention that I can't completely shake off the suspicion that his battered back just might've held up if he had known that he could have made the podium, or to the top with the way judges have been helping.

  3. #63
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    Didnt I read when a team event was announced that Plushy would skate just that...and they were told that a competitor must be one of the individual skaters. Thus sounds to me like they threw Kovtun under the bus to get Plushy...to skate just what was planned.
    May have figured K wouldnt place high enough to do them any good in future slots...and that he might stay around another 4 years as he is so new. Just my thoughts...

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    I think it was mostly to secure that team gold and put butts in seats. A youngster who has never medaled at worlds and probably has like zero name recognition is not going to draw the crowd that Plushenko, their most famous athlete, can. The mass exodus pretty much told you that. I mean, if your goal is to sell the event, you bring back ancient Michael Jordan and not some current bench player.

  5. #65
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    Russia's men's skating just hit the bottom. But the good news is that is can only go up now. Kovtun has a lot of potential. Let's see how he does.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinspread View Post
    He chickened out yesterday. I would have kept infinitely greater respect for him if he had skated at least the SP and given a dignified exiting bow to his fans, even if he had fallen three times.
    Did you watch him in the warm-up? He was in no condition to jump, it looked horrible.

  7. #67
    Alexei he's my MAN Panther2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think the Russian Federation had already closed out that possibility by all the shenanigans that went on leading up to the Games. First, Plushenko himself announced (at Russian nationals) that he would just skate the team event and let Kovtun skate the individual. Then the ISU said no, you can't do that. Then the Russian Federation made a special appeal to the ISU/IOC for a "clarification" of the substitution rule (in other words, can we do it anyway?), but no dice. So it would have looked fishy if Plushenko had come off the ice after winning the team LP, said, "Oh my poor back, here's the required doctor's report to let me withdraw, where's Kovtun?"
    BINGO, dead on. Even Scott mentioned it last night. He stated that he was more likely to believe Plush's story if they hadn't this same story when they announced that he would skate the team event & then pull out for the national champ. & the showing the scar on his back was a set up saying hey I had surgery & can't skate now. Too bad that All the OSCAR NOMINATIONS went out a month ago otherwise, Russia would have been up for an for 1. Pain, Yes I can believe that. He is older now and the body can't bounce back like it used to. However, Knowing that he could get a gold with the Team because all around the Russian has a better Team. However, on his own I did not see him winning a GOLD. Even with the SPLATFEST from last night. He still skates FRONT LOADED programs. Now, he own people are not happy with the outcome. Unbelievable that in Russia they had no Russian Male skater. SINFUL. I do see them amended the rules & closing any holes they may have left . Frankly, I think that if you havene't skated in at least 3 year prior to an Olympic then, you shouldn't be allowed to make any Olympic team. That is not fare to those how bust their butts to make the team. & Everyone, thought that the mess with the US ladies nationals was a mess. Leave it to the Russians to even top that mess.

  8. #68
    Figure Skating Is A Dangerous Sport Dee4707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I am sure Plushenko wanted to compete. Had his body not given up,
    Maybe I'm missing the point in this discussion. Why would Evgeni compete and take risks with his body when he had the kinds of surgeries he said he had??? Why would they show the scars he had on his back from the surgery??? I didn't really understand why I (the public) needed to see the scars. For another medal you would risk your body??? Why???


    Kovtun competed in the Grand Prix and in my humble opinion he deserved to go to the Olympics whether he was good or bad. How did we know he was going to be bad??? I guess that's the vibe I'm getting here. So other than the Team Gold how what else has been proven???

  9. #69
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    ^ I think the team gold is the answer. Plushenko wanted it so that he could go down in history as having won medals in four Olympics. The Russian federation (not to mention President Putin) wanted it because of the Olympic motto: more medals, more medals, more medals. The Russian fans wanted it so they could cheer for their beloved hero one more time.

    Win, win, win, provided the wounded warrior could summon the strength for one last battle.

  10. #70
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    I honestly don't think Plushenko would have withdrawn if he thought he was able to compete in the slightest. But saying that, he should have withdrawn at the end of the team competition and let Kovtun skate in his place. That way he still went out as a hero instead of someone who backed out last minute and deprived a spot from another skater. He knew he was hurt after the team competition and he should have just backed down then but maybe he wanted to believe he could still do it.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee4707 View Post

    Kovtun competed in the Grand Prix and in my humble opinion he deserved to go to the Olympics whether he was good or bad. How did we know he was going to be bad??? I guess that's the vibe I'm getting here. So other than the Team Gold how what else has been proven???


    IMO Kovtun didn't deserve to compete in the team.Yes, sometimes he hits. But also, when it counted, he didn't. He could have let down the team. When you choose a team, you don't choose who deserve to be because it did ok in GP, but who will help better the team. Between someone with one russian title, one 17 place at world and one 5th place at European Championship and someone with 3 medals at oly, loads world medal and loads european titles and loads russian titles, who was reliable when it was important for Russia - who is better for a team, to support them , to give them reliable points?


    When the team was choosen, it was not clear which skaters will go in the teams of Canada and USA, so someone not hitting would have jeopardized the team work. Perhaps for you the team gold is not important. For the russain was.


    As none Kovtun, Plushenko or Voronov had really chances for a medal in individual was very clear that the criteria would be who can help more the team. It was wise to choose Plushenko who delivered and delivered. It sucks big time for Kovtun, so he has to learn from it and learn to deliver under the pressure. Other way in 4years time a younger skater may come that will bring what it takes to be a champion.

  12. #72
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    Maybe if they knew that Canada and Japan would be pulling their best skaters from the long program, they might've gambled on Kovtun but even then, that kid cannot handle pressure while Plushenko has been known for being incredibly tough and consistent even after years of not competing.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee4707 View Post
    Why would you assume that Alexei is loving this?? ...and how do you know that Alexei didn't congratulate him??
    How do I know? He has twitter, the media knows where to find him. If he wanted his congratulations to Plush to be known they'd be as easy to find as his quotes right now. There has never been any love lost between them. He jumps on any chance to spur on negativity when it comes to Plush. And the fact that he'd open his mouth about how "you compete in pain and you go to the end" is the biggest piece of crap. As if he can't remember how he had to tearfully withdraw from Skate America himself due to what exactly? An injury. And he retired soon after that.

    There are many skaters that have incredible legacies.
    Yes they do, and how many of the people trying to kick him while he's down have 4 Olympic medals exactly?

    With how things turned out, Plush could have done 2 programs in the team and received the gold, or if there wasn't a team he could have possibly competed individually and received a bronze. Record wise, he made out better and Russia made out better.

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    Yeah, I love Yagudin as much as anyone but he's not exactly in a place to judge at least on the injury/withdraw issue. A case can definitely be made about whether Plushenko should've even tried to be there, but withdrawing because of pain is not something you ***** about when you've done the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think Kovtun would have got the spot if he had performed satisfactorily at Europeans. To be selected in place of a living legend like Plushenko, you can't just tiptoe in the back door and hope that someone will think you are a little bit better. You have to break the door down.
    I think it's naive to believe even if Kovtun came 2nd at Europeans he would not have been selected to go in lieu of Plushenko's test skate. As the audiences proved, Plushenko was what drew in the crowd (as evidenced by their withdrawal when he withdrew) and that was invaluable to the organizers.

    If the Russian federation were actually a fair and honourable entity, then perhaps Kovtun coming 2nd or winning Euros might have been enough to cue him over Plushenko, but the odds were stacked heavily against all the Russian men when Plushenko came back and the Russian fed was looking for any excuse to send him (Kovtun certainly gave them one).

    If anyone should defect, it's Voronov, as plenty of countries would welcome him gladly and give him legit opportunities. I mean, Voronov isn't even going to Worlds, right?

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