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Thread: Ladies Short - Notes & Results

  1. #106
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    How many times has Michelle skated this short? All of a sudden, the short is now too long? I do not understand that at all. I've read the US filed a protest.

    This actually might be just what Michelle needs to get her in fighting mode. If she comes back next year revved up, she could carry that into the Olympics.

    Still, it's disheartening. We always have to defend the sport because it's subjective in so many ways. Yet when there are objective standards [like the number of revolutions in the spin] it gets ignored.

    I've loved skating for over 30 years, but I'm starting to get sick of the whole frustrating mess.

  2. #107
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    Under the old system, the judges doled out more points if you did a more difficult combination imperfectly. In 1992, the judges gave Midori 5.9s and 6.0s for tech in her LP despite her fall on the first 3 axel b/c she landed the second one. I hear US is filing a protest on MK's scores. I haven't see the comp but there are some reports that said that she skated cautiously and she's in 4th place while the other girls had harder combos and Sasha has better presentation. I would say that she might have gotten what she had deserved. Don't forget that according to posters, MK was held up big time in QR so they gave her a gift already. I don't see Russia protesting for Vika.

  3. #108
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    Mandatory deductions should be mandatory. If they aren't mandatory, they would have been called Optional Deductions.

  4. #109
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    Originally posted by csmith1
    With respect, you misunderstood my point. I was not defending MK. This is the "technical" program, and under COP the results would likely have been quite different. MK (3/2) would have been lower, as would Arakawa and Ando (cheated combos.) I agree it isn't all in the jumps .. but they are a significant factor in the short program.
    I think a slighty but under-roated 3/3 should be judged higher than a clean 3/2 under the CoP. Skaters should be re-warded for attempting more difficult elements.

  5. #110
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Gellio...

    I enjoyed reading your post. You put into words better than I ever could a concern I've had about MK for awhile now. It used to be that more often than not, she was so far ahead of the pack that so long as she skated clean, medals were usually in the bag. I have always loved her skating and still do, but it just seems she is now part of the pack which sure changes the competitive environment. (I fully realize she did not skate clean in the QR)

    I don't think she's rested on her laurels in terms of competitive fire, training, etc. I also understand that years of elite level competition take a toll on the body, and to stay in the game as long as she has you have to be careful not to overtax the knees, hips, etc.

    While I'm very sure Michelle and her team keep close tabs always with regard to what other skaters are doing, I suspect that isn't quite the same as being there. Showing your program next to the others and letting the judges give feedback through scores and discussions. I wonder if she will regret her decisions about only minimally competing throughout the year. I just wonder if she fully understood how the pack was catching up.

    Oh well. One thing is for sure - I can't wait to actually see the performances and decide for myself.

    DG

  6. #111
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    Thanx DG. I admire Kwan and always will. And, although I find her programs less exciting than others, I always enjoy them and respect her and her skating. But, she is part of the pack now and I'm sure today she now realizes that. While Russia is slipping, Japan is improving and there's so much depth on the Japanese team. It will be an interesting couple of years, but unless Michelle can improve, she'll be in a rough spot in 2006.

  7. #112
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    Gellio ... yes a flawed 3/3 does rank higher than a clean 3/2 ... but my point is that Kostner's clean 3/3 should have been marked higher than Arakawa's and Ando's flawed combinations. Presentation marks aside, Kostner's technical is on a par with Arakawa and better than Ando. This was not reflected in the marks.

  8. #113
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    I am very annoyed at how much they appear to be holding up Slutskaya. I applaud her for attempting the comeback, but from what I saw in the QR and reports from the short she is not back on form yet and should not be in the top 10. Name recognition hits again.

  9. #114
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    The U.S is filing reports because they say Michelle's program is 2 seconds longer than it should be and it is automatic 0.1 deduction from the all the marks. But I don't think it will matter much now, even if it is in Michelle's favor.

  10. #115
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    Originally posted by lavender
    It's good and bad maybe. If Michelle skates awesome and pull up she may bother coming back. If not I kind of think this will be it. She's been training up in the hills and I think she's a little lonely and maybe should move on to other things that will make her happy. At least when you read articles she sounds lonely being up there in the hill away from her family.

    If she pulls out it will not be on a silver medal or a bronze. She is chasing history, and that's why she is still skating. Why do you say that she is not happy? Everyone makes sacrifice, I am sure all the other skaters are away from their families too.

  11. #116
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    She definitely needs to bring new things to the table. I don't think I've seen anything new out of her since 1998, and as much as I love her, it's getting boring! Her spiral sequence is just boring now because it's like "been there, done that". She needs harder technical elements and she needs greater speed. She is working on them, but really needs to kick it in if she wants to go to the Olympics in 2006 and she needs some new spirals. This will be the biggest wake up call of her career.

    Michelle is the best female figure skater ever (IMO), but you can't stand still for 6 years and expect no one to pass you up, especially when you are the one everyone is gunning for. That is exactly what has happened! It started with Irina in 2000 and spread to Sarah in 2002 and now there are three other women that are capable of beating an error free Kwan. It's only going to get worse by 2006 if she doesn't make changes.
    Great points, Gellio, and someone else pointed out that not going to enough competitions doesn't allow her to keep tabs on the other skaters enough; in addition to that, her being the one everyone is gunning for is what puts her in a predicament like this, IMO. Being the class of the field for so long, she has to start reinventing herself in terms of difficulty, i.e. pushing the envelope, as you said, to remain at the very top, rather than just relying on her trademark artistry and her formidable consistency, because for one thing, there are other artists out there (remember Phil Hersch's comment about the X factor being Sasha Cohen as the one who could go toe-to-toe with Michelle in Turin, provided she stands up), and the odds that *everyone* is going to fall except her are getting lower as the fields get deeper, and they're not only not falling, but landing more difficult things than Michelle. I'm reminded of Yevgeny's astonishment in his interview with ABC at everyone skating "clean" He said it was his hardest competition ever (perhaps b/c of his injury as well, but I think he stays a step ahead with the quantifiable quad and a style all his own--it's harder, IMO, to stay ahead of the pack with artistry than with revolutions you can count). Back to Michelle, I think this type of difficult competition, where she might not even come in first, is just what she needs if she really wants that gold in Torino. If, on the other hand, this just degenerates into a judging scandal, then the long-term competitive benefits Michelle stands to reap from this sort of challenge at this point, in 2004, will unfortunately be overshadowed.

    On that note, GOOOOOO Everybody!!!

    Sarah
    Last edited by sarahmistral; 03-26-2004 at 03:03 PM.

  12. #117
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    Originally posted by csmith1
    Gellio ... yes a flawed 3/3 does rank higher than a clean 3/2 ... but my point is that Kostner's clean 3/3 should have been marked higher than Arakawa's and Ando's flawed combinations. Presentation marks aside, Kostner's technical is on a par with Arakawa and better than Ando. This was not reflected in the marks.
    There's much more to the technical program that just jumps, so I could only argue if I saw all programs, but based on what I've seen in the past a non 3/3 Arakawa is technically superior to a 3/3 Kostner, regardless of how Kostner skates.
    Last edited by gellio; 03-26-2004 at 04:10 PM.

  13. #118
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    Trivia question (and I don't know the answer to this question...LOL)

    Didn't a female skater in the 70's or 80's get a mandatory deduction for the length of her program? Who was that? And wasn't it at a critical event?

    ...LOL..causes me to remember when 'dying on the ice' wasn't allowed either.

  14. #119
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    OMG

    I cannot believe what is happening here ... this is the wildest Worlds since 1994 with Yuka and Surya ...

    I also wanted to point out that the judges did not give MK the shaft, The ref. did. Had the .1 deduction NOT been applied, I believe Michelle would have been 2nd in the SP.
    Last edited by Ogre Mage; 03-26-2004 at 04:49 PM.

  15. #120
    Gliding Along dlkksk8fan's Avatar
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    Yes- I think it was Linda Fratianne.

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