Joannie Rochette calls out Patrick Chan

MalloryArcher said:

I am not sure what you mean by "skates like a man"...to me, "skates like a man" is not a compliment. Elvis Stojko skated "like a man" and it was just awful...

OTOH, Kevin's hair is a no.

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Yeah, what does that mean anyway? Do you think Baryshnikov danced like a man?

And I agree about Kevin's hair. I wonder why Skate Canada has not demanded that he dress it up a bit. I like different hairstyles, but this isn't really a hairstyle as much as it is a mess.

pangtongfan, like I said, YMMV.
That said, I think I'll put more stock in Hanyu's assessment of Chan's skating prowess than yours, especially given the amount of time and energy you give to ripping Chan apart at every opportunity.

peg said:

While it may not be mathematically accurate, the use of the initial + the word 'squared' is a pretty common way of referring to people or couples who have the same initials. I've seen it used in cases where one person has both initials the same, in cases where someone has a hyphenated last name with both names starting with the same initial, and in cases where two people in a couple have the same initial. I first encountered this in 1989 when one of my university professors had a hyphenated last name with both starting with H, and he was referred to in the department as H squared. So I don't see this as something Skater Boy is truing to force or make stick. Saying S squared is more natural to my ear than saying S/S

Maybe it's less common in some regions than in others.

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Olympia said:

Thanks for pointing this out. It also sounds better to say "S squared" than it would to say "two-S" or "S twice." I have a friend who writes her name in that style because her first and last name begin with the same initial, and she writes it with the "2" as an exponent (superscript) rather than aligned with the letter N. (I can't paste one in, but you all know what I mean.)

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peg said:

Yeah, it rolls off the tongue more easily. And it's shorter to write with the superscript than it is to write out the whole names.

I am curious though to know what part of the world Ziggy and Buttercup are in, as it seems to grate on them, which makes me suspect that it's not a universal usage. I'm curious to know where it is and isn't used. But I'm a bit of a language geek that way. (I blame it one living in too many countries as a child and having to learn my fifth language (English) at the ripe old age of five.)

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Mathman said:

You can buy this attractive maise and blue A[sup]2[/sup] T-shirt from the University of Michigan bookstore, located in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

http://cdn1.mden.com/NA1001.JPG

Here is a page from the official web site of the City of Ann Arbor.

http://www.a2gov.org/government/financeadminservices/a2openbook/Pages/default.aspx

I think this convention is more common with college types than in general usage.

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peg said:

Ha ha. Thanks M[SUP]2[/SUP]

And you could well be right. Most of my friends and all my co-workers have a university education, so that might explain why I hear it so regularly.

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I wasn't going to go into it before, but as I think we Americans would agree, the truth is that the name[SUP]2[/SUP] usage makes more mathematical sense than Ziggy and Buttercup are acknowledging.

For mathematicians, "xy" means "x multiplied by y" -- so "xx" means "x multiplied by x" = x[SUP]2[/SUP].
So .. it makes perfect sense that Ann Arbor = AA = A[SUP]2[/SUP].
And Brian Boitano = BB = B[SUP]2[/SUP], Paul Poirier = PP = P[SUP]2[/SUP], etc.

And it isn't such a huge leap that Savchenko/Szolkowy, aka S/S, would be nicknamed S[SUP]2[/SUP].

Ultimately, whether it's entirely mathematically accurate isn't all that important. It's essentially a colloquialism, an expression of sorts. (And those can vary by region or country or even continent) Plus, colloquialisms don't need to be literaly accurate. For example, when Joannie tweeted that Patrick had been given the gold medal on a silver platter, that didn't mean that someone literally came up to him offering him a gold medal on a silver platter. It's just an expression.
(See what I did just there )

And I'm not American

peg said:

Ultimately, whether it's entirely mathematically accurate isn't all that important. It's essentially a colloquialism, an expression of sorts. (And those can vary by region or country or even continent) Plus, colloquialisms don't need to be literaly accurate. For example, when Joannie tweeted that Patrick had been given the gold medal on a silver platter, that didn't mean that someone literally came up to him offering him a gold medal on a silver platter. It's just an expression.
(See what I did just there )

And I'm not American

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Please don't get me wrong. I have been with you all the way ... my original post (#82 on page 6) came immediately after your first one -- and I agreed that name[SUP]2[/SUP] is common usage, at least in the U.S.

I made note of its mathematical basis in response to your observation that Ziggy and Buttercup find it "grating" (to use your word) for some reason. Even if it happens not to be a colloquialism in their particular locales, it is not illogical from a mathematical point of view. That is my point, which is not affected by geography -- and therefore I don't understand their objections, no matter where they live.

And sorry that I jumped to the conclusion that you are American. In my original post, I vouched for its common usage only in the U.S. (my only frame of reference). I know that M[SUP]2[/SUP] is American, and I'm pretty sure that Olympia is too. Because I did not hear otherwise, I made the (false) assumption that you are too. My apologies.

In a way what Joannie said was right.l. And everyone knows it. I cannot remember an incident in recent memory where the door was so wide open for the challenger to basically have a one fall margin and still win gold. Usually there may be a small opening but they have to be perfect. Indeed, it could be said that Patrick could have even made 2 mistakes and still won gold. But he kept on making mistake after mistake, He probably could have gotten away with two of them, maybe even 3 but not all the ones he made,

The gold was his for the taking and he could not skate an imperfect but 90% clean program. In that way, his case is different from that of other silver medalists, where it was alot closer and where it is debate able whether they were robbed. There is no one -not even many ubers I would suspect - that think Patrick should have won with the performance he gave.

golden411 said:

Please don't get me wrong. I have been with you all the way ... my original post (#82 on page 6) came immediately after your first one -- and I agreed that name[SUP]2[/SUP] is common usage, at least in the U.S.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...t-Patrick-Chan&p=855882&viewfull=1#post855882​

I made note of its mathematical basis in response to your observation that Ziggy and Buttercup find it "grating" (to use your word) for some reason. Even if it happens not to be a colloquialism in their particular locales, it is not illogical from a mathematical point of view. That is my point, which is not affected by geography -- and therefore I don't understand their objections, no matter where they live.

And sorry that I jumped to the conclusion that you are American. In my original post, I vouched for its common usage only in the U.S. (my only frame of reference). I know that M[SUP]2[/SUP] is American, and I'm pretty sure that Olympia is too. Because I did not hear otherwise, I made the (false) assumption that you are too. My apologies.

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Sorry if my post came across as argumentative; that was not how I intended it. I didn't see your post as contradicting what I said i any way. I was simply trying to explain that even if you don't agree with the mathematical basis, expressions don't need to be literal - in case Ziggy and Buttercup don't agree with the mathematical logic

I was also very aware when I read your original response that I could have said at that point that it wasn't limited to the US, so I'm partly to blame for your assumption that I'm American.

peg said:

pangtongfan, like I said, YMMV.
That said, I think I'll put more stock in Hanyu's assessment of Chan's skating prowess than yours, especially given the amount of time and energy you give to ripping Chan apart at every opportunity.

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A good sportsman always talks up his competitors and downplays themselves to a degree. Another rule Chan is the exception to. Hanyu has also said in the past his training mate Fernandez is a better jumper and artist to him and other such PR nonsense to the press.

Meanwhile I will take the assessments of non Canadian skating experts like Scott Hamilton, Nicky Slater, Chris Hosworth, Christine Brennan, Robin Cousins, Johnny Weir, Tara Lipinski, Jenny Kirk, and even some Canadians like Sandra Bezic who all say Patrick is often overscored and has not deserved many of his medals and scores (yet even according to the sports experts the judges typically overscoring him he is still losing to Hanyu now). I will also take Toller Cranstons word that the smartest people in an arena are the fans, and the unusual chorus of boos after Chans wins at several events held outside of Canada- 2011 GPF, 2012 Worlds, say it all.

In any case when it comes to Chan overscoring of his competitor relative to him is NEVER a valid argument.

Ryan O said:

Well, Patrick Chan said this today:

"I think I'll still be the best skater in the world for some time."

I think he's got to stop saying things like that, because it does make him sound a bit arrogant.

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I really wish Joannie had come back for these Olympics. She would have won another Olympic medal in the Team Event. I always thought she made a mistake not continuing after 2010. I understand obviously why she didnt go to the 2010 Worlds, but the 2011 Worlds and 2012 Worlds would have been there for her to win if she were at her best.