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Thread: 2014 Olympics Ladies Short Program

  1. #61
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    I'd like to imagine that the judges would not overscore her combination so egregiously and so shamelessly when there is another skater with a big reputation (Gracie Gold's 3-3 should have scored higher in the Team FS but Kim actually has a reputation) doing the same 3Lz-3T but of much higher quality. Then again I like to imagine that Mao Asada and Carolina Kostner would skate an entire competition cleanly, so what do you know

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antilopa View Post
    Little Julia mentally and physically much stronger these delicate creatures men!
    LOL I agree.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    That's not the point. Kim was given huge GOE as long as she was considered the favorite. Read GOE = favoritism. This time, in Russia, they have the home favorite. I think Lipnitskaya's emergence was "favorable" for Mao. Kim will feel much more pressure than before. For a skater who always relied on the judges favoritism, skating clean won't be enough against the home favorite who has higher technical content (7 triples FS) and much superior spins.
    She was not the favorite at last year's Worlds. Carolina and Mao were much more favored. No matter how much you wish it, her GOE and PCS are not going to tank just because she's in Russia competing against a Russian. And I'm just a bit baffled as to why you think Lipnitskaya is considered THE bigger favorite? Against the reining World Champion and defending Olympic champion? It doesn't matter that the games are Russia--she's not "the favorite".

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    That's not the point. Kim was given huge GOE as long as she was considered the favorite. Read GOE = favoritism. This time, in Russia, they have the home favorite. I think Lipnitskaya's emergence was "favorable" for Mao. Kim will feel much more pressure than before. For a skater who always relied on the judges favoritism, skating clean won't be enough against the home favorite who has higher technical content (7 triples FS) and much superior spins.
    Clearly you can't judge the quality of jumps.

    What is sad is that even this comment has some validity. GOE shouldn't be like a popularity vote, neither should PCS. What is sure is that Yuna has never won over another skater just because of judging bias, which is what seems to be happening now with Russian skaters. Yuna deserved every medal she earned.

    I don't think Yuna was ever judges' favorite (maybe at the Nationals haha). Throughout her entire career Yuna struggled to earn her well-deserving points, especially early in her career, and she determined that she will have to hone her jumps so perfectly not to be subject to those biases. Yuna's jumps are technically perfect, and her perfect techniques are what's helping her to keep her consistency in jumps. It's physics. Physics is irrefutable. Yulia lacks the technicality but has the stamina and power going into jumps, and she is so light and she is able to manage to complete rotations and landing even with wonky take-offs and landings. If you have ever seen junior skating and find that smaller kids' jumps look lighter and spins faster, you would understand. Mao had a similar path - she had natural talent as in she was able to rotate so fast and hold onto her take-offs and landings but it didn't last and she had to completely re-learn her jumps. Such ability is lost with skaters' body deteriorates.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    She was not the favorite at last year's Worlds. Carolina and Mao were much more favored. No matter how much you wish it, her GOE and PCS are not going to tank just because she's in Russia competing against a Russian. And I'm just a bit baffled as to why you think Lipnitskaya is considered THE bigger favorite? Against the reining World Champion and defending Olympic champion? It doesn't matter that the games are Russia--she's not "the favorite".
    To add to this, Kim has an advantage over Asada of at least an extra clean triple - a 7 triple Asada with one 3A is still very capable of losing (in fact is likely to lose) against a 6 triple Kim. Mao's clean jumps (the clean ones, not the ones with 1/4 hooks at the end) typically score higher than Julia's clean jumps, so a 7 triple Julia has absolutely no advantage over a 6 triple Yuna, even in Russia.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Lip's 3Lz(overlooking e)+3T was given +1.4 GOE at the Team event. Kim's will be given about the same or alittle higher. I'm pretty sure Kim can't beat clean Lip in TES. But clean Mao can, of course.
    Again, there's no reason to be insulting. Tiny, I mean really? I actually agree with those who don't understand with Gracie's 3-3 wasn't given +2s as well. She fulfilled the same things Julia did, recognizable footwork into, good height, good distance, good flow, and steps out of the combination. However, the people who are worrying about the GOE between Yuna and Yulia? One got 1.40 (when the tech panel ruled that there was not an edge change, just like a few other times this season) while Yuna receives 2.10. Yulia's edge is always borderline, not obvious this season, so it comes down to the call. When it was ruled a edge change like in the team event FS, loss of 1.00 points. When ruled in her favor like in the team event FS, +1.40. Exactly as it should be.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    To add to this, Kim has an advantage over Asada of at least an extra clean triple - a 7 triple Asada with one 3A is still very capable of losing (in fact is likely to lose) against a 6 triple Kim. Mao's clean jumps (the clean ones, not the ones with 1/4 hooks at the end) typically score higher than Julia's clean jumps, so a 7 triple Julia has absolutely no advantage over a 6 triple Yuna, even in Russia.
    The difference about their compositions of jumps - Mao puts in her program what she may be able to pull off (but maybe not) - very risk-taking. Yulia attempts what she manages to not fail. Yuna only attempts what she can do perfectly - very risk-averse. Just in terms of jumps, setting Yuna as unchanging 100%, Mao can range between 80%~110%. If she didn't take risks, Mao would do a sure win of 95%. Honestly to me Yulia's maximum potential is below Mao and Yuna's.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabel_O'Reilly View Post
    Again, there's no reason to be insulting. Tiny, I mean really? I actually agree with those who don't understand with Gracie's 3-3 wasn't given +2s as well. She fulfilled the same things Julia did, recognizable footwork into, good height, good distance, good flow, and steps out of the combination. However, the people who are worrying about the GOE between Yuna and Yulia? One got 1.40 (when the tech panel ruled that there was not an edge change, just like a few other times this season) while Yuna receives 2.10. Yulia's edge is always borderline, not obvious this season, so it comes down to the call. When it was ruled a edge change like in the team event FS, loss of 1.00 points. When ruled in her favor like in the team event FS, +1.40. Exactly as it should be.
    I have never heard of anyone calling Yuna's lutz edge as borderline. Are you talking about her flips?

    Yuna's flips are inside edge only that oftentimes it may not be clear because of her entry - same goes for all other skaters who does a 3-turn before flip, because they have to change from outside edge to inside edge before jumping a flip. Technical panel may miss it because it happens in a split-second and make an edge call. It is the similar to how some skaters get away with a wrong lutz edge because the panel misses the split-second changes from outside to inside edge when jumping lutz.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    She was not the favorite at last year's Worlds. Carolina and Mao were much more favored. No matter how much you wish it, her GOE and PCS are not going to tank just because she's in Russia competing against a Russian. And I'm just a bit baffled as to why you think Lipnitskaya is considered THE bigger favorite? Against the reining World Champion and defending Olympic champion? It doesn't matter that the games are Russia--she's not "the favorite".
    Yes, Kim was not the favorite in the SP last year. But treated that way in the FS, which lead to the super generous GOE. She won't be given that amount of GOE if she skated earlier in the FS or wasn't the first after the SP. She was just lucky. In Russia, she won't be given that amount of GOE anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isabel_O'Reilly View Post
    Again, there's no reason to be insulting. Tiny, I mean really? I actually agree with those who don't understand with Gracie's 3-3 wasn't given +2s as well.
    I had the impression that Gold was "held down" because it was in Russia. So there's a strong reason to believe that Kim must face the same judging. Kim's "perfect" FS can score anywhere between 67-74 in the TES depending on the judges favors and moods.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    To add to this, Kim has an advantage over Asada of at least an extra clean triple - a 7 triple Asada with one 3A is still very capable of losing (in fact is likely to lose) against a 6 triple Kim. Mao's clean jumps (the clean ones, not the ones with 1/4 hooks at the end) typically score higher than Julia's clean jumps, so a 7 triple Julia has absolutely no advantage over a 6 triple Yuna, even in Russia.
    I'm not so sure. Mao usually loses her advantage in BV when she gets deductions on some of her jumps. A scenario hasn't happened when she earned her entire planned BV. On the other hand, Julia is getting credited for all of her jumps, even her borderline flutzes are being overlooked and getting plus GOE imo. She also earns a lot of GOEs for her spins.

  11. #71
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    Certain skaters can beat Yuna Kim in TES with clean skate = You can outscore Michael Jordan if you take more FGs than he does and don't miss a lot. Easy to say, hard to pull off.

  12. #72
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    Can we just wait few more days

  13. #73
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    I feel like Mao performs better when she competes against Yuna for some reason.. coincidence? But I think she's developed more of a fighting spirit after the disappointing team result so i expect good things from her in the individual event
    No idea what to expect from Yuna though, as she's had the tendency to save the best performance for the biggest competitions (or maybe it jsut feels that way as an audience member) but I think she will win the SP if all skate cleanly.
    What I'm curious about is how the judges will score Julia against Adelina if both skate perfectly

  14. #74
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    I hope the fight for gold stays between the 2013 World podium ladies

    I'm a fan of Lipnitskayas, But her PCS Shouldn't be over low 8's, And her +GOE should only be major on her Spins, And they do travel sometimes.
    But being realistic, She's on the Podium, I hope Asada has 2 dream skates and wins this, But if she doesn't, I hope Olympic gold doesn't go to a toddler again, Seeing there
    Are a few amazing Ladies who i'd rather see awarded, Even if it's Kim again.

    I hope Wagner has the best competition ever!

    I hope the final 2 groups after the SP consist of

    Kim
    Asada
    Wagner
    Kostner
    Lipnitskaya
    Gold
    Sotnikova
    Murakami
    Suzuki
    Osmond
    Edmunds
    Li

    So much talent !!
    I hope they all score over 63, Just to make this race pure quality and competitive till the end

  15. #75
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    Anyway, there's no reason to expect 74+ points TES from Kim always. It depends on the judging. Gold's near clean FS at the Team event could score 74 in the TES at US nationals. As I said, Kim is exactly in the position of Plushenko at Vancouver. Her relatively "early" skating order in the SP could be used as an excuse to make the game more "interesting".

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