2014 Olympics Ladies Short Program | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2014 Olympics Ladies Short Program

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
I have never heard of anyone calling Yuna's lutz edge as borderline. Are you talking about her flips?

Yuna's flips are inside edge only that oftentimes it may not be clear because of her entry - same goes for all other skaters who does a 3-turn before flip, because they have to change from outside edge to inside edge before jumping a flip. Technical panel may miss it because it happens in a split-second and make an edge call. It is the similar to how some skaters get away with a wrong lutz edge because the panel misses the split-second changes from outside to inside edge when jumping lutz.

I have never heard of Yuna getting an edge other than at Worlds last year. I was talking about Yulia. Her GOE for the Lutz fluctuates wildly because her edge in the Lutz is so borderline. The tech panel has to replay to check, and if it's clear there's an edge change she gets the edge call. However, if it's not, according to the ISU rules it comes down to a majority vote. Here she did not receive an edge call in the SP and the judges were able to give the +2s they always would for that element(the way it was performed that time).

Even when she does have the edge call it falls under the criteria of adding -1 to -2 to the GOE she would otherwise get. She doesn't have to get -2 or -3 and her final GOE is not required to be negative the way it is for the severe wrong edge. If she had a severe wrong edge instead of merely switching over sometimes she would usually get -2s.

At SC, for example, without the edge call she received 1.20 in the SP for her 3-3. In the LP, the 3-3 had an edge call and she received -0.30 because the judges remove the -2 for the edge, from the +1 and 2s they would otherwise award. Her 3-2 also did not get an edge call and she was awarded 0.10 because the element was not as good as the first one. At Euro's with edge calls her GOE was negligible (-0.20, 0.00, and -0.20) because the judges would have given 1s and 2s but had to give -1s and 0s instead. The same here at the Olympics: 1.40 without an edge call and -1.00 for the 3-2 because, in addition to changing the edge she paused for a split-second for a balance check, before doing the 2Toe.

Only Yulia's 3-3 when it's performed well, and without the edge call get +2s and sometimes her 2A-3-2. All the rest of her jumps, including the 3-2 only get 0 and +1s with the occasional +2.
 

jenm

The Last One Degree
Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2014

I totally understand the head-banging. XD

Yes, Kim was not the favorite in the SP last year. But treated that way in the FS, which lead to the super generous GOE. She won't be given that amount of GOE if she skated earlier in the FS or wasn't the first after the SP. She was just lucky. In Russia, she won't be given that amount of GOE anyway.

In my eyes, that wasn't luck. That was perfect, emotional skating. And she deserved every single point she got.
 

HalfTriple

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
I honestly don't agree with the first part of your statement saying that Yuna was given generous GOE on her Worlds 2013 FS. I think that her jumps in that program are collectively, the best that has been done in a ladies' competition, in terms of quality. Especially her 3F. I think she deserved the GOE she got at that competition, and I think her GOE at Sochi will depend on the quality of her jumps.

Not that I am critical of your point; I found it very funny to ponder the "quality" of Kim's jumps, especially with judges who little bothered about the so called "qualities" of jumps in other skaters.
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
I have never heard of Yuna getting an edge other than at Worlds last year. I was talking about Yulia. Her GOE for the Lutz fluctuates wildly because her edge in the Lutz is so borderline. The tech panel has to replay to check, and if it's clear there's an edge change she gets the edge call. However, if it's not, according to the ISU rules it comes down to a majority vote. Here she did not receive an edge call in the SP and the judges were able to give the +2s they always would for that element(the way it was performed that time).
Yuna got edge calls on her 3F-3T combination at almost every competition in the 2008-09 season. Back then, they had the attention mark (!) where an unclear edge would get a less severe GOE deduction and the final GOE was not required to be negative. Julia's Lutz as it is now would only get the '!' mark if she was judged under that code.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
19:00 (7:00 p.m.), Wednesday, February 19
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Sochi2014.com results page (with planned elements)

ISU results

Start order/schedule to come

Ladies SP start order now is posted.

Source for time schedule copied and pasted below: http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Ladies_SP_TimeSchedule.pdf

19:00:00 - 19:07:00 Warm-Up Group 1
19:07:30 - 19:14:10 1 GLEBOVA Elena EST
19:14:10 - 19:20:50 2 PARK So Youn KOR
19:20:50 - 19:27:30 3 DALEMAN Gabrielle CAN
19:27:30 - 19:34:10 4 POPOVA Natalia UKR
19:34:10 - 19:40:50 5 McCORKELL Jenna GBR
19:40:50 - 19:47:30 6 FRANK Kerstin AUT​

19:47:30 - 19:54:30 Warm-Up Group 2
19:55:00 - 20:01:40 7 ZHANG Kexin CHN
20:01:40 - 20:08:20 8 OSMOND Kaetlyn CAN
20:08:20 - 20:15:00 9 HAN Brooklee AUS
20:15:00 - 20:21:40 10 WILLIAMS Isadora BRA
20:21:40 - 20:28:20 11 KIM Haejin KOR
20:28:20 - 20:35:00 12 EDMUNDS Polina USA​

20:35:00 - 20:50:00 Resurfacing of the Ice

20:50:00 - 20:57:00 Warm-Up Group 3
20:57:30 - 21:04:10 13 RAJICOVA Nicole SVK
21:04:10 - 21:10:50 14 UKOLOVA Elizaveta CZE
21:10:50 - 21:17:30 15 GJERSEM Anne Line NOR
21:17:30 - 21:24:10 16 GEDEVANISHVILI Elene GEO
21:24:10 - 21:30:50 17 KIM Yuna KOR
21:30:50 - 21:37:30 18 WEINZIERL Nathalie GER​

21:37:30 - 21:44:30 Warm-Up Group 4
21:45:00 - 21:51:40 19 HELGESSON Viktoria SWE
21:51:40 - 21:58:20 20 MURAKAMI Kanako JPN
21:58:20 - 22:05:00 21 MARCHEI Valentina ITA
22:05:00 - 22:11:40 22 GOLD Gracie USA
22:11:40 - 22:18:20 23 LI Zijun CHN
22:18:20 - 22:25:00 24 SUZUKI Akiko JPN​

22:25:00 - 22:40:00 Resurfacing of the Ice

22:40:00 - 22:47:00 Warm-Up Group 5
22:47:30 - 22:54:10 25 LIPNITSKAYA Yulia RUS
22:54:10 - 23:00:50 26 KOSTNER Carolina ITA
23:00:50 - 23:07:30 27 WAGNER Ashley USA
23:07:30 - 23:14:10 28 MEITE Mae Berenice FRA
23:14:10 - 23:20:50 29 SOTNIKOVA Adelina RUS
23:20:50 - 23:27:30 30 ASADA Mao JPN​
 

HalfTriple

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Yuna got edge calls on her 3F-3T combination at almost every competition in the 2008-09 season. Back then, they had the attention mark (!) where an unclear edge would get a less severe GOE deduction and the final GOE was not required to be negative. Julia's Lutz as it is now would only get the '!' mark if she was judged under that code.

You mentioned a very important thing. But ! on Julia's lutz is a misguided understatement, however. If Julia were to be judged by what Kim once was subject to, her GOE would have amounted to almost 0 today.
 

YunaBliss

On the Ice
Joined
May 11, 2010
Ladies SP starting order is now posted on Sochi2014 page.

1 EST Elena GLEBOVA
2 KOR So Youn PARK
3 CAN Gabrielle DALEMAN
4 UKR Natalia POPOVA
5 GBR Jenna MCCORKELL
6 AUT Kerstin FRANK
7 CHN Kexin ZHANG
8 CAN Kaetlyn OSMOND
9 AUS Brooklee HAN
10 BRA Isadora WILLIAMS
11 KOR Haejin KIM
12 USA Polina EDMUNDS
13 SVK Nicole RAJICOVA
14 CZE Elizaveta UKOLOVA
15 NOR Anne Line GJERSEM
16 GEO Elene GEDEVANISHVILI
17 KOR Yuna KIM
18 GER Nathalie WEINZIERL
19 SWE Viktoria HELGESSON
20 JPN Kanako MURAKAMI
21 ITA Valentina MARCHEI
22 USA Gracie GOLD
23 CHN Zijun LI
24 JPN Akiko SUZUKI
25 RUS Yulia LIPNITSKAYA
26 ITA Carolina KOSTNER
27 USA Ashley WAGNER
28 FRA Mae Berenice MEITE
29 RUS Adelina SOTNIKOVA
30 JPN Mao ASADA​

OMG. Is this real? Let the excitement begin!!!!!
 

quikrush

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
I never felt Yuna's GOEs were too generous either, in fact I sometimes wonder what keeps the judges from giving her 3's straight across the board for those amazing jumps. She's certainly doing everything by the book - height, distance, takeoff, landing, air position, you name it. In that sense I suppose she's already been "held down" in order to "make the game more interesting" during the entire length of her skating career.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
I believe no one can beat clean Lipnitskaya in Russia depending only on GOE and PCS (= judges favoritism). Needs some luck and the help from "history".
 

HalfTriple

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
I never felt Yuna's GOEs were too generous either, in fact I sometimes wonder what keeps the judges from giving her 3's straight across the board for those amazing jumps. She's certainly doing everything by the book - height, distance, takeoff, landing, air position, you name it. In that sense I suppose she's already been "held down" in order to "make the game more interesting" during the entire length of her skating career.

+3 or 10 is an ultimatum and the defense line of pride as a judge, I think. I would not lavish those marks if I were a judge either. That being said, Kim's GOE, about 2, seems reasonable to me. Only comparative merits sometimes allude a fact that she might not have got what she was entitled to in the past. But I prefer to think that that reflects on the health of judging practice at that time too; for I believe conservatism in judging in figure skating especially about qualities.
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
You mentioned a very important thing. But ! on Julia's lutz is a misguided understatement, however. If Julia were to be judged by what Kim once was subject to, her GOE would have amounted to almost 0 today.
Looking back at the protocols, Yuna usually got around +0.5 GOE for any 3-3 where she got the '!' call. Hilarious, given the way her flip edge was no weaker than Julia's Lutz edge and her 3F-3T was probably even better quality than her 3Lz-3T today in most respects. Julia's 3-3 judged under the stingier 2008-09 standards wouldn't even get positive GOE.
 

YunaBliss

On the Ice
Joined
May 11, 2010
Bad spot for Carolina and Mao to skate right after the two Russians.

But the silver lining is judges may not be able to go bonkers with Julia's PCS, with Carolina, the PCS-queen, right next.
 

HalfTriple

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Looking back at the protocols, Yuna usually got around +0.5 GOE for any 3-3 where she got the '!' call. Hilarious, given the way her flip edge was no weaker than Julia's Lutz edge and her 3F-3T was probably even better quality than her 3Lz-3T today in most respects. Julia's 3-3 judged under the stingier 2008-09 standards wouldn't even get positive GOE.

That simple reflection says a lot; judges are not blind or all so corrupt to do loosen judging. As I said before, the current judging trend contains more a collective intent in regard to the ISU's internal policy. But the problem is , aside from fairness issue, it contributes to regression of figure skating. But another argument would be that if Kim retires and nobody brings the kind of vision the ladies skating upholds, the ISU needs to steer the course sooner than not.
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Bad draw for Kanako, imho. But who knows it could become a tight competition for the medals ála Mens bronze if all the Ladies bring their A game. When did Mao skate it Vancouver?
 
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