kwan article (US files protest) | Golden Skate

kwan article (US files protest)

Kara Bear

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Unrelated to MK, but I found this part of the article interesting.


Evgeni Plushenko won the men's title Thursday in a program that featured two quadruple jumps, including one in a three-jump combination. The Russian also completed a unique combination -- triple axel-half loop-triple flip -- a first at a major competition.


I didn't realize that he had done that combination, or that it was a major thing. Hmmmm
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Thanks Graceful...

For posting the link. Very interesting. Since we don't know which judges gave what scores and which judges counted, I wonder if the .1 penalty, if removed, would change any placements.

LOL Kara, I've listened to / read SO many reports on the men's long at this point that I can't even remember where I heard this. But I think that "new combination" may have been a slick recovery (and good for Plush if it was...). I think he had a 3A+something else combo planned, and may have landed a bit off and did this instead. I may be WAY wrong here, so please understand I am not trying to start any rumors. Just wondering if anyone else recalls hearing/seeing that.

DG
 

gracefulswan

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
no, don't think it was by chance really as he did this sequence before at the 2002 olympics... and very well. he did it another time afterwards and before this worlds performance i think.
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
He does a lot of combinations with a half loop in the middle, however upon seeing his performance, I too thought that it was a recovery of some sort just b/c he seemed kind of unsteady out of the axel to do a jump right after it so he improvised.
 

diver chick

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Chris and Simon have just been discussing the situation with Michelle Kwan. Chris was quite emphatic that if indeed Michelle's music was too long someone should have picked up on it before she ever got to the SP because all the practices are timed.
It would surprise me if that was indeed the reason she was scored so low, also has she cahnged her music in any way from last years Worlds? If not, how was this not an issue then, or at US Nationals for that matter?
 

emuffy35

Spectator
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
At the GPF in Co. Spr., the scores of the last and next to last dancers were accidentally reversed. Once those scores are shown, they canNOT be changed. Period. That's what they said.

So, why is the USFS bothering to protest Kwan's music length?
 

SusanBeth

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
errr Maybe because they feel it was unfair. Maybe they want the judges to know that, although they are anonymous, there are still people who will fight for fairness. The protesters might want to send the message,- We might not be able to hold individual judges accountable. We can still hold the entire judging panel collectively responsible in the media

Who are on the panel anyway? Surely, they can't keep that anonymous.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
I can see how this could happen..

with this music cut. The music is so soft at the end you can't even hear it once the crowd gets going. That probably means Michelle can't hear it either. I'm sure the cut is timed right, but I can also see how easy it would be to go two seconds over the time limit (I assume the music cuts it close to begin with) if you can't hear it.

Just a thought..

DG
 

SK8GR8

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
The program is timed from when the skater begins moving until they stop. This rule is from USFSA but I would imagine is probably applicable to ISU

"Timing of a skater’s program always commences when the skater first begins to move or skate, which is not always at the same time as the music starts (SSR 15.06). Timing continues until skater comes to a complete stop at the end of the program."

This is why you could have music that is actually longer than the time limit. If the music begins and you don't immediately begin skating, (as many skaters do, choosing to hold a pose or whatever), you could have a few extra seconds of music. If Michelle couldn't hear her music at the end, it would be easy for her to get off. The referee is timing it from her first movement and blows a whistle at the end of the allotted time. If the skater is still skating, they are over. So it's quite possible that even with perfectly cut music, Michelle could have gone over time.
 

Evdokia

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
That part about Plushy's 3 axel-half loop-triple flip is nonsense, cause he landed it in his LP in SLC for the first time. :p
 

rpiche

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
SK8GR8 said:
The program is timed from when the skater begins moving until they stop. This rule is from USFSA but I would imagine is probably applicable to ISU

"Timing of a skater’s program always commences when the skater first begins to move or skate, which is not always at the same time as the music starts (SSR 15.06). Timing continues until skater comes to a complete stop at the end of the program."

This is why you could have music that is actually longer than the time limit. If the music begins and you don't immediately begin skating, (as many skaters do, choosing to hold a pose or whatever), you could have a few extra seconds of music. If Michelle couldn't hear her music at the end, it would be easy for her to get off. The referee is timing it from her first movement and blows a whistle at the end of the allotted time. If the skater is still skating, they are over. So it's quite possible that even with perfectly cut music, Michelle could have gone over time.

What is considered moving? your arms moving or your feet?
 

diver chick

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
I am not sure whether the rules have changed since 1984 or not but when Torvill & Dean skated Bolero they found they could not edit the music to be the required length so they got round it by doing that few seconds on their knees at the start of the program. They could do this because the rules were that movement only counted if you were on your feet and skating.
 

SusanBeth

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
For someone who hasn't seen the competition, you are quick to judge those who have. In other words- Pot, Kettle, Black
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Unlike some people, I don't think the USFS are being babies about this. They are just asking for it to be re-timed. If she did go over, then ok...on to the LPs...if she wasn't then the .2 points should be given back and the oridinals re-done to see where MK stood.
And it is a big deal considering MK could be anywhere from 2nd to 4th...if she's 2nd then she's striking distance from the gold...if she's 4th, she has to fight to go on the podium. That's why the USFS just wants to make sure the timing deduction is justified.

IMO, I think it's good that a federation is looking out for the interest of one of their skaters.
 

RealtorGal

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
VIETgrlTerifa said:
IMO, I think it's good that a federation is looking out for the interest of one of their skaters.

You mean one of its biggest MONEYMAKERS. I doubt they really care about Michelle at all--unfortunately.

"We've been seeing a lot of 5/4s (splits) lately, but I like them in my favor."
~~~Michelle Kwan on her short program results at SLC Olympics.

That is an interesting quote you've got there. Sometimes it just DOESN'T go in her favor!
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, whether or not they care for Kwan, their request for the timing of her performance be evaluated isn't an unreasonable one...especially if it deals with the placement a skater is in before the LP.

Oh, and my sig isn't really part of this discussion, but since you brought it up...you are right, it doesn't always go her way, but 5/4 splits aren't what this issue is about.
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
At the GPF in Co. Spr., the scores of the last and next to last dancers were accidentally reversed. Once those scores are shown, they canNOT be changed. Period. That's what they said.

So, why is the USFS bothering to protest Kwan's music length?

Hi Muffy, welcome to GS.......Anyway........scores may not be changed, but outcomes sure can be changed.....SLC and the pairs competition comes to mind.......two Oly gold medalists winners?

42
 

Emmaly

Spectator
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
The music timing starts when she first moves her body and stops when she ends and hits her final pose! there was a new rule brought in this year or last that at the end of a short program you must come to a complete stop!! no gliding to end or they will keep timing till you stop moving!! she did end after her music even i could hear it when i watched it!! im sure if they re timed the music it would end at 2:40 but she did not end at the exact time her music stopped!! IMHO she shouldnt cut her music that close! you would think she would give herself a couple seconds leeway just in case something like this happened!! I think she is shocked to find herself in 4th as well!!
 
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