The Time Rule | Page 2 | Golden Skate

The Time Rule

sorrowfree78

Spectator
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
Interpret them as you please.

http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_rules/rules_about_program_timing.htm

Section SSR 15.00 contains the rules describing how those time requirements are interpreted. _



Timing of a skater’s program always commences when the skater first begins to move or skate, which is not always at the same time as_ the music starts (SSR 15.06)._ Timing continues until skater comes to a complete stop at the end of the program.

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=...ing.ice.figure&[email protected]

The ISU Special Regulations Figure Skating states in rule 305:

"The time must be reckoned from the moment the skater begins to move or to skate
until arriving at a complete stop at the end of the program. If competitor/s fail
to finish the short
program within the time limit, there should be a 0.1 deduction in the marks for
required elements and presentation for up to every 10 seconds in excess. The
timekeepers must inform the
referees who must then advise the judges of the number of seconds in excess."
 

sarahmistral

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
I'm almost afraid to weigh in on this one, though I'm proud of goldenskate; the flap this has caused is really cataclysmic on other forums (and not even necessarily skater-specific forums...will not name names, but some of you can guess), and it's-a-gettin' UGLY:D Anyhow, I just watched Michelle's TFB, beautiful, smooth, polished, but not going for the jugular like Sasha, though to be fair, it's hard to compare because the programs and their respective musical selections express different overall feelings. How long was she moving? From my Windows Media Player, movement starts at 0:01 and goes to roughly 2:43-44 (the final spin ends around 2:39-40 and AFTER it comes the step into the final pose, and the last movement is with the arms and the torso).... It stinks, it's a really tough break and you hate to see it happen to someone as gracious, graceful and hardworking, but as Rgirl said, that ain't never happenin' to Shelly again. They did cut it close for a piece with such an open ending (the clearly audible part of the music ends abruptly AT 2:40!).

I've officially pulled an all-nighter following all this stuff! Looking forward to my morning tryst with my new lover Eurosport (ROFLMAO Dollygirl)...I have NO nails left.

Sarah
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Sarahmistral...

LOL on your new lover! I'm lovin' on Eurosport myself this morning. Isn't it great?

I can't even imagine the Kaffufal (favorite new word LOL!) that must be going on at some of the boards over the time deduction.

DG
 

Sk8n Mama

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Well, I've been listening to the event ofn Raisport and watching on CBC and some idiot(s) there has been blowing a horn during the performances! How do they expect ehr to hear her music and be perfectly on time with that being allowed to go on. I understand Jan Hoffmann was just trying to do his job but what a time to get picky with the rules. That .2 looks like the difference b/w 2nd and 4th in the SP. From 2nd she could win the gold but not from 4th (at least, not likely). I don't blame USFSA for protesting.
 
R

RoselynBach

Guest
Rules are rules. Now that I know the time limit is 2:30 +/- 10 secs the more I think the penalty was called for. Just because someone is an icon or a superstar doesn't mean they have an immunity to rules. I was quite surprised that Michelle thought it was silly. And even if her music was under 2:40 mins, she should finish WITH the music. It looks so much better and shows that the skater has musicality.
Besides, if they let this go, all skaters will start to skate over the time limit! You'll have someone skating 2:50 mins, 3:00 mins, etc. See my point? Rules are made for a reason, so respect it.
Michelle has gotten away with so many deductions in the past because of her reputation, it's time someone acted fairly.
 
Last edited:

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
So, should the name of the program be changed from "The Feeling Begins" to "The Feeling That Wouldn't End"?:D :laugh: :D
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
There is such a rule, and Sarah Hughes was dinged for that violation in her sp either worlds 2000 or a 2000 GP event?

I have been worrying about Michelle's program being dinged for the same thing since last year. The music ending of TFB is rather soft, it is not easy to hear the music ending over the audience noise.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I believe Ina & Zimmerman's SP to Kodo Drummers ended after the music with a long glide.

Is there a penalty for just posing at the end of the music? On several occasions, you can see skaters holding in that last final pose while they wait for the last note of their music. That's more annoying to me then deliberate choreography that ends 1 or 2 seconds after the music.

Anyway, I'm sure Team Kwan and all the other team's will be cutting their music short to ensure that the same mistake doesn't happen again.

I haven't timed it. Was it 2:42 from when her skate first moved? If I recall correctly, T&D's Bolero was too long and they couldn't bear to cut the music - that's why they pose so long at the beginning before actually skating. Did the rule change to indicate the beginning of any movement?
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Well, ABC said there is a rule. But the deduction is not manditory it is upto indevidual judges. With the anonymous judges you don't know who take deduction, who not.

If you ask me the whole thing just smell fishy:

1) I just checked Rosaleen's QA lady report. Miki also only finished 4 triples same as Michelle. The diff is she had 3/3 while MK not. But for a firsttime rocky placed before 5 times World champion with almost the same jump contents? That did not happen very often. Then why in long both skated the same program, MK finished 5 triples, MA 6 triples with 2 3/3s still placed behind MK? And we all watched from TV agreed with the placement. MK even steal some ordials from Arakawa. Only one judge placed Onda before MK.

2) Then SP time deduction? and not even manditory one.

3) Look at Arakawa presentation 5.9? 3 weeks work with TT? Not to mention she was the first to skate in final group, there were Sasha and Michelle to go both of them were capable beat her in presetation. Where is the room? May be judged under CoP whole season they forgot 6.0 need to leave room for late skaters?

4) MK's SP even with 0.1 time violation 5.2 for technique, where dose 0.8 dection gone?

I suspect Japanese federation had a 'politics' hand. Arakawa deserve her win. No problem, but the whole fisco looks like take MK out of running for medal. No doubt MK's own mistakes gave two 'GOOD Excuses' for judges to work towards that direction.

Indevidual incidents seems reasonable, unrelated but if you look at the whole lady's event, just smell fishy to me. I'm glad USFSA file the protest request. Otherwise it would be Japan 2 medals, US one medal. Go figure!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Rules are made for a reason, so respect it.

This is true, but apparantly, this particular rule isn't always enforced........why now and why only Michelle? I'm sure she's not the only skater who skates past their music. I saw several do that just during the short program..........hmmm.......makes you wonder............
:\ 42
 

Hornblower

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Michelle apparently lost the count

I just compared my Nationals and Worlds tapes. At Nationals she started the final spin sequence at 2:27 and checked out of the final spin a bit before 2:40. Her arms and upper body continued to move a bit after 2:40, but not glaringly so. At Worlds, she started the spin sequence at 2:26, but she did five or six more rotations on the last spin than at Nationals, and was still spinning with her free foot well clear of the ice after the 2:40 mark. She did not get both feet down and stopped until about 2:42.

What happened? I would guess the sort of brain lock that could have happened to anybody. The music has no audible melodic or metrical cue for the last half minute or so, being all drone and drums from there to the end. If the applause was loud enough, she might not have heard the final drum beat at 2:39 with enough certainty to do a snap checkout should she be on a roll in that final spin, while somehow thinking she had more time remaining than she actually did.

Let's not knock her for this if we have not walked in her shoes. My fellow military bandsmen and I, all experts in our craft, occasionally miscounted in routines we knew cold. Once in a great while the result was a visible or audible error.
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
On the bright side...she did all of the rotations and then some. So you could say she was penalized for being an over achiever?:D :D :D
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Kurt Browning once got a .3 deduction in a pro-am competition because his program was 30 seconds too short.

MM
 

Pati

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I know I heard them say during the broadcast that both Arakawa and Cohen were timed at 2:39. I'd really like to know why those of you saying Michelle "should have known better/how dare she/unsportsmanlike/blahblahblah"...why the heck aren't you whining about how close they were??? Its bad enough when the judges don't hold all the skaters to the same standards, but the fans of the sport too? :mad: All of the skaters have programs timed fairly close to the limit. Had this "rule" been enforced for all-all the time it would be understandable. We all know that's not the case, and that is what makes this whole issue totally wrong and unfair.
 
Top